Woodleigh 550gr .458 bullets loaded for Lott

[BRNO zkk602]

Evening everyone i hope you are all well. Just a quick question I have been searching on here for any information on the Woodleigh 550 FMJ & weldcore RN SN bullets in .458. I will be loading these for my Lott which is a Brno Zkk602 has anyone loaded these and what was the performance like ? Velocity? I will be using them on DG and have new Norma cases to load them in.
I was trying to source the Norma African PH .458 Lott ammo but being in zim they are like hens teeth so ordered the components and will load them up myself.
Any help would be appreciated and any experiences you have had with them good and or bad would be great to hear .

Cheers

 

[matt85]

i have no personal experience with the 550gr bullet but ive often wondered why people use them. the 400gr .416" and 500gr .458" bullet weights have proven themselves over the years and if anything id say they are actually heavier then needed with modern bullets. with a modern premium bullet id say 450gr is more then enough for dangerous game using the 458 Lott.

i know this isnt the answer your looking for so hopefully someone else will chime in who has more experience with the bullet.

-matt

 

[tarbe]

I am taking this bullet to Zim in 4 weeks.

I hope to have some data for you.

“If much is good, more is better and too much is just right”.

Let’s just say we are doing it for science!


Tim

 

[GuttormG]

From my notebook with bits and pieces of nice to have; not my loads but from a guy I thrust. Use at your own discretion.

73grains Norma 202, Federal 215 primer. 630 meters per sec

74grains Norma 203b, Federal 215 primer, 640m/s

Both from a 60cm/23.5" barrel.

 

[BRNO zkk602]

i have no personal experience with the 550gr bullet but ive often wondered why people use them. the 400gr .416" and 500gr .458" bullet weights have proven themselves over the years and if anything id say they are actually heavier then needed with modern bullets. with a modern premium bullet id say 450gr is more then enough for dangerous game using the 458 Lott.

i know this isnt the answer your looking for so hopefully someone else will chime in who has more experience with the bullet.

-matt

Thank you Matt for your input!! I know Dr Kevin Robertson ( Doctari ) is the brand manager for the Norma African ph ammo and he was involved in developing that ammunition and being a Vet, game rancher PH there must be something behind it, my guess is it was developed to be a stopping round . Those Norma African ph use those 550gr Woodleigh’s and from other forums I have read they are sensitive to velocity to little or too much and they are not effective “apparently “. I have only ever seen 450, 480 , 500 gr bullets and I agree with you they are all really effective so when I came across the 550 it is unusual and hope more people on here can shed some light and their experiences using them

 

[BRNO zkk602]

I am taking this bullet to Zim in 4 weeks.

I hope to have some data for you.

“If much is good, more is better and too much is just right”.

Let’s just say we are doing it for science!


Tim

Great news please send pictures and give a scientific report on your hunt and the performance of the 550 Woodleigh’s

 

[matt85]

Thank you Matt for your input!! I know Dr Kevin Robertson ( Doctari ) is the brand manager for the Norma African ph ammo and he was involved in developing that ammunition and being a Vet, game rancher PH there must be something behind it, my guess is it was developed to be a stopping round . Those Norma African ph use those 550gr Woodleigh’s and from other forums I have read they are sensitive to velocity to little or too much and they are not effective “apparently “. I have only ever seen 450, 480 , 500 gr bullets and I agree with you they are all really effective so when I came across the 550 it is unusual and hope more people on here can shed some light and their experiences using them

just a little info, ive spoken with Dr. Robertson at length about his cartridge and bullet choices. i used to own a 505 Gibbs and he was helping me with load data and bullet choices. Norma pays him to promote their ammunition... but thats not whats in his working rifle. last we spoke, Dr. Robertson was a big fan of North Fork bullets and absolutely loved the North Fork CPS bullet. he uses a 600gr CPS in his 505 Gibbs and swears by them for culling buffalo. his complaint about Woodleigh bullets in general was that the soft points were too fragile and the FMJ bullets didnt do enough damage. the North Fork CPS is half way between a soft and a solid. people change and its been some years since weve spoke so who knows maybe he has a new favorite but id be willing to bet its not the Woodleigh 600gr SP.

personally im a fan of light weight mono-metal bullets (id probably use the 350gr Barnes TSX) but if i was going to use a heavy for caliber bullet in a 458 Lott id use a 500gr Swift A-frame.

-matt

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hi BRNO , ZKK602 . To answer your question , the 500 grainers are better suited for your gun than the 550 grains.
Velocity with the 550 grain will be lower than with the 500 ( though how much , in numerical figures , l cannot say ) . 500 grain is ample for an African elephant For a heavier bullet , l would recommend a .505 Gibbs ( 525 grain bullet ) or a .500 Jeffery Old Pattern ( 535 grain Kynoch bullet ) or a .500 Jeffery New Pattern ( 570 grain Norma bullet ) .
Hope this helps,
Hoss
P.S : The BRNO ZKK602 is my favorite fire arm of ALL time. I own one in .350 Rigby Magnum myself as my plains game rifle You have good choice . Here is mine.

 

[BRNO zkk602]

View attachment 294118 Hi BRNO , ZKK602 . To answer your question , the 500 grainers are better suited for your gun than the 550 grains.
Velocity with the 550 grain will be lower than with the 500 ( though how much , in numerical figures , l cannot say ) . 500 grain is ample for an African elephant For a heavier bullet , l would recommend a .505 Gibbs ( 525 grain bullet ) or a .500 Jeffery Old Pattern ( 535 grain Kynoch bullet ) or a .500 Jeffery New Pattern ( 570 grain Norma bullet ) .
Hope this helps,
Hoss
P.S : The BRNO ZKK602 is my favorite fire arm of ALL time. I own one in .350 Rigby Magnum myself as my plains game rifle You have good choice . Here is mine.

Hi Hoss

Thank you for your input, the reason for the post was I have seen the Norma African PH ammo for .458lott and I really struggled to try and find that ammo in Zim, no one is able to bring it in. I did manage to get some for my .375 H&H but for the Lott it is like looking for braces for Hens teeth!!.

I have a good friend in zim who was with parks back in the day and worked with Mike la Grange and learnt all his ballistics from him and he is now in charge of the Zimbabwe Learner Hunters Shoot and he also reloads. So I managed to get some Woodleigh’s in the above weight and we are going to give it a try and see what we can do. He has never loaded that weight Woodleigh for .458 Lott. The Norma African PH Lott ammo is “ supposed to be 2100fps” with a 550grn FMJ or RN SN.
We worked out that we can get the 550grn to 2193fps but then that is the limit on the pressure scale with 81.7gr of propellant so we are going to start at 80 or 81 gr and hopefully that will get us to 2150fps and drop the pressure that bit more.

His words yesterday “ shooting a 550grn at 2193fps will be an event in your life “

I think as a stopping round a.458 lott 550grn FMJ at 2150fps is no joke and would make either a buff or an ele either fall dead, or at a minimum get them to turn and start looking for some aspirin.

I agree with you whole heartedly the 500grn mono metal bullets are fantastic I have always used them and I can easily put holes through a 12mm steel plate at 50 yards. And the Peregrine VGR’s are great I have a couple hundred in both .375 and 458 so at worst my shoulder will be dislocated with the 550gr and I will return to the 500gr bullets. Will try and set up a shoot with wet phone books and bits of timber and see what penetration I can get and post some photos !!

 

[fourfive8]

With all other things being equal, I don't know the advantage of a solid 45 cal 550 grainer going a little slower over a solid 45 cal 450-500 grainer going a little faster? I have satisfied myself by media testing and carcass testing that a 45 cal 450 gr flat point mono solid pushed at normal Lott vels will adequately penetrate anything I can imagine needing it for from elephant on down.

But for expanding soft points, there may be some advantage of the 550 Weldcores over the 500 Weldcores for penetration ... I dunno? but testing should reveal any significant difference.

The hardwood (to simulate bone) followed by a horizontal of stack of several bundles of 100% water saturated phone books is as good a test as I know of. I used that exact media and could not stop a 45 cal 450 gr FP GS solid in 48"- the full length of my testing trough! Based on comparative penetration in real tissue, 48"+ in that media is truly impressive! I loaded the test rounds to an impact vel of about 2100 fps to simulate downrange impact vel (at normal ranges) out of a Lott. As a comparison with more familiar cals and bullets the average penetration in that same test media for a 416 400 gr TSX at 2200 fps impact vel is about 19" and that translates into full diagonal body penetration in a buff.

ps- since a bundle of phone books, once shot, is no longer valid for more tests, you'll need a lot of phone books for this type of testing Looking forward to your results. Also as an aside, I'll second Kevin Robertson's positive opinion about the effectiveness of the NF Cup Point Solid.

 

[tarbe]

I plan to test those 550gr Woodies on Cape Buffalo in a few weeks!

Just home from a range session with the 450 Dakota, 416 Taylor and a 45-70.

Last three rounds of the day were 550gr Woodleigh at 2,200 at 50 yards standing with the front of the forend on a bag to simulate sticks. 470 empty for scale (the shooting stool on top of the bench trick, right @375 Ruger Fan ?). The rifle would put them all in one hole at 50 yards if I was good enough. Most of the time I am not good enough!

My PH is happy with my bullet choice, so I will be shooting with confidence.

 

[TheoR8]

I plan to test those 550gr Woodies on Cape Buffalo in a few weeks!

Just home from a range session with the 450 Dakota, 416 Taylor and a 45-70.

Last three rounds of the day were 550gr Woodleigh at 2,200 at 50 yards standing with the front of the forend on a bag to simulate sticks. 470 empty for scale (the shooting stool on top of the bench trick, right @375 Ruger Fan ?). The rifle would put them all in one hole at 50 yards if I was good enough. Most of the time I am not good enough!

My PH is happy with my bullet choice, so I will be shooting with confidence.
View attachment 294598

Looking forwards to the result, Safe Hunting.

 

[tarbe]

Looking forwards to the result, Safe Hunting.

Thanks! Four days and wheels up!

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I am interested in this thread as I am currently considering the 550grn Woodleigh Weldcores loaded by Norma as a "stopper" round as I have access to these in Australia.

How did the hunts go? Any buffalo taken yet?

 

[tarbe]

I am interested in this thread as I am currently considering the 550grn Woodleigh Weldcores loaded by Norma as a "stopper" round as I have access to these in Australia.

How did the hunts go? Any buffalo taken yet?

Killed one buffalo with the 550gr.

Weight retention was only 59%, the bonding failed, and the bullet was retrieved from the heat/lung area ( did not make it to the offside).

Bullet hit the near shoulder and between the bullet fragmenting and the bone fragments, enough damage was caused in the thoracic cavity to kill the bull relatively quickly. I was lucky!

Tim

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Killed one buffalo with the 550gr.

Weight retention was only 59%, the bonding failed, and the bullet was retrieved from the heat/lung area ( did not make it to the offside).

Bullet hit the near shoulder and between the bullet fragmenting and the bone fragments, enough damage was caused in the thoracic cavity to kill the bull relatively quickly. I was lucky!

Tim

Really? hmmmmm ok, I haven't used Woodleighs myself but I had always heard goods things. Having said this some of the recovered bullets I have seen photos of, looked a little over expanded at times. I might avoid these and stick to TBBC. That's a bit disappointing.

 

[tarbe]

Really? hmmmmm ok, I haven't used Woodleighs myself but I had always heard goods things. Having said this some of the recovered bullets I have seen photos of, looked a little over expanded at times. I might avoid these and stick to TBBC. That's a bit disappointing.

I was careful to keep my muzzle velocity below the upper end of Woodleigh’s recommended impact velocity.

My actual impact velocity was right in the middle of the recommended range.

When the bonding fails, like it did on my bullet, all bets are off.

 

[Neale]

I also had poor results from the Woodleigh (416 cal 450gn soft). Bullet peeling back and lack of penetration after only hitting a rib.

 

[MMAL]

I just had my kreighoff big five double reregulated for swift a-frame from woodleigh. I have not had one fail but my hunting partner had one fail on a buffalo in 2018 in Zimbabwe. Also working up a new load for the .458 Lott with swift a-frames. Not sure what solid I want to work with though.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I also had poor results from the Woodleigh (416 cal 450gn soft). Bullet peeling back and lack of penetration after only hitting a rib.

I have heard the Woodleighs are softer than other expanding bullets. Thanks for the info, I think I will stick with TBBC for buffalo.