Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized Bullets

[Panielsen]

I am a Hornady Fan boy and usually load my rifles with their bullets with great results, however today I checked out the new Woodleigh Hydrostatically Stabilized line. I have to be honest, that I like the concept as you sort of get the best of both worlds, Soft/Solid. I am wondering if any of you have actually used these on Buffalo, Elephant, etc. and if so, what is your report. If you have I would also be interested in the caliber and loading info if you loaded them. Not to be gruesome, but photos of the bullet and wounds would also be welcome to see the performance of these newly designed bullets. Check out the link below if you haven't heard or seen these yet and post your thoughts as well!

 

[ActionBob]

I don't hand load but used the Woodleigh hydro solids on my elephant and as follow up on a buffalo in Zimbabwe last Nov.

I am also a Hornady fan (that has not been a popular thing on AH) but also really like the Federal Premium line as well as Remington Premium ammo.

I don't buy the whole one bullet for everything sales pitch... Broadside on a buffalo your going to get not just a pass through but a "blow right through!" with these things, and probably any good solid moving at a respectable speed... The exception "may" be on an old time cartridge like they talk about in that video... Moving at 1800 FPS. Which is risky at best on Cape buffalo or elephant.

I used them in a 416 Rem Mag M70 and on elephant it went in one ear and out the other. LOL. I don't know if there was a miscommunication between me and the PH, but I understood he wanted me to shoot right at the bottom back of the earhole and that is where the bullet entered, and came out the other side about 2" farther back... There was a neat little exit hole not unlike the entrance... Not a ragged hole like the video claims but if you know how an elephant skull is constructed, you can understand how that might make sense.

There might be something to the hydrostatic shock thing as it missed the brain, but there was neat grove cut in the spine where it attaches to the skull and the elephant dropped instantly.... However I followed up with two more shots, the first I did not have a good aiming point as he was down in tall grass, it went in the top of the neck and passed through the lungs and heart to lodge in the sternum, we think. There was no exit hole but never found the bullet... If you ever experience the ensuing frenzy of a village cutting the meat off an elephant, you will understand how we never found it! That whole chest cavity was tore up pretty good so definitely could see how it performed like they claimed in the video there! I then moved up and put another in the top of the head and that bullet was recovered out of a jaw bone. It had a small dent on the leading edge. These hydro solids would be my first choice on elephant and probably my first choice as a solid... Odd they don't talk about the plastic cap on them that helps them feed well?

I think I only put one solid into my Zimbabwe buffalo two days after the elephant... And that critter had 6 bullets in him, probably did not need the last two but hey, it's a buffalo and it was still breathing! There was an exit hole out the left flank that had entered somewhere in the front end of the right side... But with all the holes in him, hard to say just which one was the hydro solid.... I would suggest a TSX as a top choice for buffalo, followed by something like a Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or A Frame.... and just fill the magazine with them if it is a gun sending them at 2300 FPS or more. Too many opportunities to pass through and hit another critter with solids in a modern caliber. But if you really insist on a solid, the Woodleigh hydro is a great one! However I claim BS on the one bullet does all, except maybe at 1800 fps.

 

[matt85]

if your looking for solids that also double as softs then you should take a hard look at the North Fork CPS. the NF CPS is a semi-expanding solid that comes highly recommended by many people who kill buffalo for living.

-matt

 

[ActionBob]

comes highly recommended by many people who kill buffalo for living

Hard to beat that endorsement!

Matt, are they getting a lot of pass throughs? And what do you hear on elephant?

 

[Panielsen]

Great post @ActionBob, and good advice! I usually use the DGX and DGS Hornady stuff, and that is what I was planning on loading up for my Buff this year in my new Winchester Model 70 Safari in .458 Win Mag. I was looking at loading both bullets on top of 73.5 gr of Varget, but then seen the add for those Woodleighs'. I don't trust the commercial reports as I believe they choose the pics etc., as all companies do. I know a lot of folks here at AH are down on the Hornady stuff, but I just love them. I have done my own testing, using phonebooks, on the self defense pistol and up to .375 Ruger and found them to do real well. I wanted to here from people like you who have used those new Woodleighs' to see what the real world reviews would be.

@matt85, I will check those North Fork CPS out as well, thanks!

 

[gordon-kruger]

if your looking for solids that also double as softs then you should take a hard look at the North Fork CPS. the NF CPS is a semi-expanding solid that comes highly recommended by many people who kill buffalo for living.

Matt you are right, the cup nose from North Fork is probably the best ever constructed bullet for buffalo, when its come to elephant and special a frontal brain shot I would prefer a solid flat nose because of the penetration distance up to the brain on large bulls.

 

[matt85]

Hard to beat that endorsement!

Matt, are they getting a lot of pass throughs? And what do you hear on elephant?

while I have some 600gr CPS bullets for the 505 Gibbs, I haven't tried the CPS on any live critters yet. Mr. Robertson AKA Doctari uses the 600gr .505" CPS for culling buffalo and swears by them.

as for "pass throughs" ive been told to watch out for these with the CPS as its still a solid and penetrates much like one. I haven't asked about elephant but I imagine the standard NF flat point solid would be a better choice if brain shots are the order of the day. however the CPS would probably be great for heart/lung shots on elephant.

-matt

 

[Code4]

When the Hydros came out, there was a lot of interest in them here in Oz. I have not used them but people I know and also people I respect have, on Buff, Elephant and camels. The consenses is that they penetrate very well and do penetrate straight.

There have been some feed issues but you will get that with any flat nose projectile and you won't know till you trial them.

As for internal ballistics, you do get damage. What do you expect from a soft ? Some like massive varmint like holes and others like long canyons of destruction.

They appear perfect for a head on or going away shot as they can penetrate multiple body cavities..

 

[ActionBob]

as for "pass throughs" I've been told to watch out for these with the CPS as its still a solid and penetrates much like one. I haven't asked about elephant but I imagine the standard NF flat point solid would be a better choice if brain shots are the order of the day. however the CPS would probably be great for heart/lung shots on elephant.

-matt

I'm not sure how concerned one is of hitting multiple animals when culling buffalo.... And it is different when you are on a once, twice or even thrice in a lifetime buffalo hunt, than a seasoned veteran who does this for a living. A sport/trophy hunter is likely going to have bigger issues if he hits two animals because of a pass through than a professional culling hunter.

And your not going to want to be thinking about which bullet you have up the pipe when it is time to make that most important first shot... So use the CPS if you want to but remain aware of other animals in the background... And if your using that CPS as a first shot, may as well fill the mag with them because they sound like the best option on follow ups!

Or if you want a tough bonded soft or TSX type for the first shot and want to use a solid as a follow up, shoot a soft first and then fill the mag with these for those coming towards or going away shots after the beast is separated a bit from others and less chance of collateral damage on a pass through. Or just fill the mag with something like TSX's and shoot as well and as quickly as you can.... One thing about using a combo of bullets is to get them to shoot to relatively the same point of aim.

As for elephant, from my very limited experience of shooting one elephant with one PH.... Do not plan on a heart lung shot. Plan on a brain aim and don't expect to be changing bullets when there are elephant in front on you! I really do think the hydro solid is one of the best choices on elephant. But talk to your PH long before going on the hunt and see what he likes and advises. My PH was not going to allow a heart lung shot as we close to the Kruger border and he wanted that critter to drop in it's tracks! He said the one and only heart/lung shot he allowed was at the insistence of the client and the elephant ran 400 yards and got into the herd... Which it took 4 hours and most of the bullets on hand being shot into the ground to drive them off! an experience that PH had no desire to repeat.

 

[Panielsen]

I'm probably going to stick with my Hornady set up on this Buffalo hunt as that is the ammo I know, but found the idea of those Woodleighs intriguing. The thing that kind of sucks is there isn't a great real world test one could perform here in the states. I mean, there is no doubt of the penetration nearly any quality bullets will give you, and since there is no expansion being a hydrostatic design, that complicates it even further. That is why I had asked who has actually used them so we could all hear about the pros and cons from actual application. The Barnes bullets I do like, but not for .458 Win Mag. The reason is the rather short case, and need the room to get the 500 gr. bullet steaming along at 2100 fps! I have never loaded a Barnes, but do understand they are longer and require a deeper depth of seating. I dunno, just thought those were kinda cool, but I am like you all, and worry some about over penetration. This one buff is breaking my bank, so two would be tragic!

 

[ActionBob]

I'm probably going to stick with my Hornady set up on this Buffalo hunt as that is the ammo I know,

I think in that case you should load a soft followed by solids... Lots of reports on here about that Hornady DGX breaking apart on hard bone... Although at 458 Win Mag speed, it may not be a problem.

I shot my second buff with my 505 Gibbs with a 525 grain DPX (which is a TSX under a different name) moving at 2300 fps. Took a shot I would not have taken with less confidence in the gun, round, and bullet... Quartering away and left (rumen) side... I'll post the picture on here as I had it on another thread... it includes a 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady Interbond out of some small antelope, a 300 grain trophy Bonded Bear Claw that traversed my lion from front shoulder to well into his rear compartment, and the TSX 525 grain. I would contest that they all performed as expected, however it looks like the Interbond shed more weight than the others. I think an Interbond is a bit stronger bullet than a DGX?

That TSX made a very big green path of destruction after passing through about 8" of rumen and then continuing on into the front of the chest. Mushroomed perfectly... There was about a 3" to 4" channel of destroyed tissue green with rumen fluid... The bull was laying against a tree letting out a death below by the time we covered the 70 yards or so to get to him. The PH told me to let him be as he was done, and for bragging rights about a one shot kill I could have, but my wife was wincing at the bellowing and I put two more in to finish him quickly.

I hear you on the length thing, that is probably why it is so popular to convert Win Mags to Lotts. However as I understand it, modern 458 Win Mag loadings should be just fine as long as you keep them at 2050 fps muzzle velocity or more. I was going to use Hornady ammo exclusively until I got talked out of it on here.

Others may suggest a good bonded bullet option that might be stronger than the DGX.... Never heard anything bad about a DGS, I would not be afraid to use them on elephant or as backup to a soft. I assume they should regulate really good with each other?

What about A Frames?

 

[Panielsen]

My original, and current plan was to load the DGX to a velocity of 2100 fps, and exactly the same with the solids for this hunt. I am intending on loading 1 expanding followed by solids as that seems to be everyones advise. Makes perfect sense, so I never questioned that. As for DGX, I read on another thread that the old, round nose, inter Bonds were the ones breaking up and the DGX has the flat nose which doesn't have the same issue. I was planning on testing that theory when the rifle gets here as I have a box of both solid and expanding here just itching to go down range as factory loads! Then I get to load the brass... Wife to keep happy.... I had been loading the Inter Bond bullets in my 300 gr. .375 Ruger to 2400 fps for a few years now, and that is one I shot the phone books with. Held together rather nicely! Now I just have to hope the Buff works for Southwestern Bell if I use that rifle!

Another reason for using the DGX as my first shot is I want as close to the same point of impact with my DGS rounds behind it. I'm not sure how close the Barnes would be and want to keep things uniform. Many have told me the 450 gr. Barnes is the way to go with .458 Win Mag, but I like the 500 gr. stuff, which is why I went with that caliber or the Lott anyway. I will say, and it pains me deeply, that I did buy a box of Barnes 225 gr. XPB HP in .44 Magnum for my emergency Jaguar medicine at the ranch over the Hornady stuff. Please don't tell Hornady, as I had to at least TRY the other stuff! Right?

 

[ActionBob]

Now I just have to hope the Buff works for Southwestern Bell

That's what went through my head when I read it! Glad you said it

 

[Panielsen]

That's what went through my head when I read it! Glad you said it

Lol, I would use ballistic gelatin, but I burn hard boiled eggs! Besides, I get so many of those books every year, why not "repurpose" a few!

 

[ActionBob]

Not to be gruesome

I would use ballistic gelatin, but I burn hard boiled eggs! Besides, I get so many of those books every year, why not "repurpose" a few!

Weeelllllll Any feedlots left out there near Odessa? You could go make reall good friends with a manager and "repurpose" a couple dead steers. There would be a really good test medium!

 

[Panielsen]

Weeelllllll Any feedlots left out there near Odessa? You could go make reall good friends with a manager and "repurpose" a couple dead steers. There would be a really good test medium!

Well you know.........

 

[ActionBob]

Well you know.........

Hey I'm full of free advice... Just remember it may be worth what you paid for it

 

[Panielsen]

Hey I'm full of free advice... Just remember it may be worth what you paid for it

10/4!

 

[matt85]

a bullet that hasnt been discussed much on this thread is the Woodleigh 480gr SP. why not use the Woodleigh soft backed up by Woodleigh solids? ill take the Woodleigh soft over the DGX any day since the Woodleigh is a bonded soft point. Woodleigh bullets tend to excel at low velocities giving both good expansion and penetration.

another great option is the North Fork 500gr SS, this bullet is built very similar to the trophy bonded bear claw. however unlike the bear claw it rides on a series of very tiny driving bands which makes for very low pressures which allows higher then normal velocities. you could likely get over 2100fps with a NF 500gr SS due to the ease at which they go down the barrel. ive been talking with NF about using their 500gr SS in my 450 NE and they told me my rifle would likely regulate at higher then normal velocities but at the same pressure with their bullet.

-matt

 

[Panielsen]

I found a product called Clear Ballistics last night on the interweb. One can buy 10% (FBI) or 20% (NATO) blocks in various sizes. It would be cool to run a series of tests on the different types of expanding bullets. The stuff is reusable and would give a decent performance idea as far as penetration, weight retention, how straight the penetration, and expansion. The only things to determine would be how far away to put the block from the muzzle for an accurate assessment. Like myself, I find everyone has their favorite bullets etc., which makes me think a shoot out would be fun. I'm thinking the 20% gel block would be better as it is twice as dense as the FBI 10% as that is equal to human flesh. Thoughts?