Would you ask to hunt with the new Professional Hunter?

[curtism1234]

I'm curious what opinions are on this:

It's been stated before here that PH's with seniority take the American clients and new PH's take the European clients since the tips are generally significantly less.

Although I've had a good experience, I wonder if a PH may be just coasting sometimes doing an average/good job and expecting the good tip. Referrals from this site help prevent one from being in this situation though.

Would you (Americans) consider intentionally booking with the company's newest PH who may not have a whole lot of experience (maybe make known subtly or direct that you will take care of him if you are treated well) in hopes of getting superior service or add-ons? Do you think a young newbie generally has the knowledge and land access to produce good quality animals?

To summarize - is it better to have an average but totally acceptable older PH or a enthusiastic (although perhaps money motivated...not saying that's a bad thing) newer PH?

 

[PARA45]

For plains game, I wouldn't hesitate to go out and hunt with a new PH. I'm sure he probably knows more about their animals than me. If we are talking DG, I hope the owner of the concession has seen this new PH in action and feels comfortable sending him in the bush with a client.

 

[WAB]

I have hunted mostly in remote DG country with experienced PH’s. I know one PH who just received his license in Botswana last year that I would trust my life with. However, he is a young man who grew up ranching in Botswana and his taken more problem elephant on his ranch than many very experienced PH’s.

I have only hunted in RSA twice. The first time was in Klaserie with an old friend who is a very experienced PH. That is the buff in my avatar. The other time was a side trip for PG on a Zim buffalo hunt. The PH was young and a very poor stalker. This sounds bad, but I could have done a much better job than he did. I would not hunt with him again.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I have found young PHs to be a bit hungrier to prove themselves, not necessarily money driven. I have also had great experiences with guys that have 30 years experience. I honestly believe you have to trust your outfitter to hire professionals and hope they match you up accordingly. I know this is kind of a non answer but I guess it depends.

 

[JimP]

The problem is that with most of us we would have no idea if he was just starting out in the PH field or if he had 20 years, except for his age.

When it comes down to it what is the job of the PH? It is to find you the animal that you will be satisfied in taking along with keeping the client safe from harm. As was mentioned even a new PH is likely to have a lot more experience in the area that you would be hunting than you would fresh off of the plane from your home country. And while I have no idea of the qualification that they need to get the title of PH I am sure that most of us would fail it if we had to take it.

So for me I would have no problem with a fresh PH, and in all reality we might get along a lot better than one that has 30 years under his belt. Personality goes a long ways in enjoying the hunt.

 

[375Fox]

I would not intentionally book with a brand new PH. That said I’m in my early 30s and would much prefer to hunt with a younger PH closer to my own age. I think we will have a lot more in common and have more of the same hunting mindsets than a older PH. My priority on future hunts is booking with a PH/outfitter I think I’d enjoy hunting with, not necessarily the area or trophies.

 

[Happy Myles]

Most times the outfitter/concession holder does a pretty good job matching people by personality, experience, physical condition to name a few criteria. One example is a new PH may be assigned a good very experienced tracker to assist him. A couple times i have been asked if I would go with a new PH because I was an experienced African hunter and a calm marksman. Some hunters need an experienced no nonsense old pro to keep an aggressive hunter in line. Sometimes it is just pot luck. During my decades annually hunting hard all over the world have only had a couple really poor PH/guides. One mistake in Canada I bailed my guide out of jail so I could go on my hunt, should have left him in the hoosegow. Another, decades ago in the C.A.R. The head tracker and I took over the hunt. Vast majority have all been good on the hunt and became friends ever after. Now that I am in my 80s, my main reason for going to Dallas Safari Club each year is to visit with old comrades from around the world. Kindest Regards




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[Newboomer]

Having researched what it takes to get a PH license and talked with some PHs, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with a new PH. Granted, a lot would depend on what I was hunting. PG, no problem. DG, I'd want to know his experience level. How many of what species, has he ever been charged by an animal and what was the outcome, close call or handled quickly, client injured?

 

[Happy Myles]

I forgot one exception. I have misgivings hunting elephant with a new professional hunter. A young, new pro is prone to try too hard, lack patience and feel too brave. Elephant are smart, hear and smell well. Even if not wounded they can get cranky if pushed too hard. Cows with calves can be trouble makers too

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Short answer: I have zero problem with the idea of hunting with a new PH. with

Regarding personalities... 375Fox mentioned maybe having more in common with someone closer to his age. JimP mentioned the personality part figuring into the equation.

My PH was almost half my age. My only real concern was keeping up. I'm in decent shape but he was a former rugby player who clearly looked like he could still play. We got along very well, and have very similar views in music, politics, world views, and a good many other things, as it turns out. For myself, I'd much rather listen than talk, so I ask questions. An important part of my first African experience was getting to know my PH, his family, and the two other gentlemen in camp at the same time as me. For some of you it might not be important at all, or be a very secondary thing, but for me the personality part was a key component. Yes I wanted to kill new animals in a new place. But these few months later I can tell you it would feel a bit flat if it was just the animals. There is so much more that goes into it, including the people.

Back to the short answer: a new PH would probably still have good stories to share, as seen through newer/younger eyes. I'm sure I'd enjoy hearing them.

 

[Ryan]

I wouldn't ask for a newer one, but I would also have no issues hunting with one.

New PH or old should have the same land access as the outfit they work for, so that's a moot point to me. If they don't that's an issue with the outfit, not the PH. As for experience, they may have less experience, but they are a licensed PH and I trust they needed more than enough just to get that license. And the outfitter would be a fool not to assure all of their PHs are competent before allowing them to perform on their own. In this day the client is going to let everyone know it right here and elsewhere on the web pretty fast if they feel short changed.

 

[IvW]

I forgot one exception. I have misgivings hunting elephant with a new professional hunter. A young, new pro is prone to try too hard, lack patience and feel too brave. Elephant are smart, hear and smell well. Even if not wounded they can get cranky if pushed too hard. Cows with calves can be trouble makers too

Almost zero chance of hunting elephant with a ew Ph so I would not be concerned with that....

 

[Bonk]

Well not to get all Zen on you but I'd be perfectly fine with whatever PH the outfitter chooses for me. God/the universe/kharma or whatever you choose to believe in is making the choice for you via the outfitter. The PH I end up with is my perfect PH because that's the way god/the universe/kharma wanted it. One or both of us will learn something about ourselves, each other or the circumstances. Isn't that really the whole point of meeting new people and having new experiences? Even if it ends up being a mess one or both of us will have the opportunity to grow. Somebody already mentioned it above. It's not just about killing animals.

Namaste, amen or whatever floats your boat.

 

[meigsbucks]

No problem on PG but maybe not for a first safari. For DG, I’d like like to know his (or her) experience level.

 

[Art Lambart II]

I hunted with a new PH on my first safari and an experienced PH on my second one and there is a difference. The young PH is trying to make his bones with this outfitter by convincing his client to take extra animals, if you finish your package early in the hunt you'll have more time to shoot those extra animals. I took my Kudu during the afternoon hunt on my first day of a ten-day safari. My PH said shoot and not knowing how to judge a Kudu I shot. My Kudu made a fine shoulder mount but only measured 49" and didn't make book. I finished hunting on that safari in 7 days and I had taken two additional animals but that left me three days of unplanned non-hunting activities. On my second safari, an eight 8 day hunt I had an experienced PH, we hunted hard for all eight days and did not take everything on my list, we saw everything I wanted to take but my PH said we could do better and I would not be satisfied with the trophy quality. I had a good time on both safaris but given the choice of PH's I'll take the experienced PH every time.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

For plains game, I wouldn't hesitate to go out and hunt with a new PH. I'm sure he probably knows more about their animals than me. If we are talking DG, I hope the owner of the concession has seen this new PH in action and feels comfortable sending him in the bush with a client.

@PARA45
I hunted with both in Namibia because we had 4 hunters. My first PH was young but very experienced, the other was young and still training to be a PH. He was keen, eager and also very knowledgeable. Maybe he was just out to show how capable he was but I found him very good. The owner of the property was also a PH and was excellent beyond belief. On the last day in a late hunt he got me onto a beautiful black wildebeest with in half an hour of leaving the main house. Age, knowledge as well as being the one definitely showed the others up BUT I would not hesitate to hunt with the youngest trainee PH there again. He had a great teacher and mentor in Harald and wanted to be as good as him. A great goal. Unfortunately the China flu put a hold on his career and Marcius had to go and work for his father in the transport industry. I do hope he got to be a PH because a a young 22 year old he had a great work ethic and strived to give the hunter more than they expected.
Bob

 

[chashardy]

All great comments. Only thing I would add is that getting licensed as a PH in South Africa is one thing. Getting qualified to hunt with a client for dangerous game is another level, as I understand it.

 

[mark-hunter]

Young people must have a chance!
So I wouldnt mind having safari with new PH.

But few comments:
Not for DG - in that case, experienced PH to guide me, but in the same time I dont mind if a new PH tags along to get DG experience.

For PG.
I dont think that new PH will be trusted by outfitter in a matter to be irreplacable. There should be a back up person always available, Even for the case when experienced PH gets incapacitated.

So, if something goes wrong, PH can be replaced - there should be other PH on stand by, around

But all in all, give young people a chance, and I wouldnt mind hunting with younger PH, as I would come hunting in a good faith, and beleive that he is familiar with game and local hunting area surroundings - otherwise he would not get a job in a first place..
I am sure that there are many farm boys that grew up on their family game farm, and know every inch of local terrain and are capable hunters, so just freshly making a PH license, not necessarily mean they dont have knowledge or expeiernce.

 

[bowjijohn]

About 20 + years ago I spent a month (post FGASA course) working with a young, newly qualified, PH who had just come back down south from Tanzania (I think).

Although I was one of those kids that grew up on an African farm hunting I learned a great deal from that chap

As he could not yet afford a suitable rifle of his own, he was loaned a camp rifle.

Whilst talking around the camp fire he mentioned a .375 Bruno that was for sale and that he was saving up to buy it

I had to return to ‘work prison’ but left sufficient funds at camp for him to buy it

cheap considering what I learned from him

 

[Jaegger]

Interesting question - I’ve enjoyed the range of experiences & opinions so I’ll kick-in my experiences from 7/trips over the big pond. I‘ve had the opportunity to hunt w/ both ‘green’ & ‘seasoned’ PH‘s & from culturally different backgrounds of white & black PH’s but all native born to the Countries they hunt/guide: Namibia, Zim, & S. Africa.

I’ve organized 6 of these 7 trips & have emphasized to the Owners … match Hunter personality to PH, as feasible possible & ex: Don’t need a 1-word a day PH matched w/ the gabby Hunter or the Hunter who enjoys stretching his legs on long hikes matched w/ the PH who prefers drive, sit & glass.

From my experience, a green PH may not only be perceived young in years but also when they secured PH license. Sadly, some folks had lost or limited opportunities earlier in life & illiteracy has held them back or slowed them down … you can be an outstanding technician of the bush but you must be able to shoot & pass the academics.

I’ve personally hunted w/ trackers in their late 30’s who thru persistent & online teachings are now PH’s in their early 40’s … ‘green’ by PH licensing yet masters in the bush.

DG/PH Licensing: as previously mentioned, I’ll bet ‘never’ will a rookie PH ever legally guide a sole DG Hunt w/ a client. I’m no expert on the subject but I’ve hunted w/ one DG/PH in Zim & if I recall - PH must apprentice under a licensed DG/PH for a minimum of 4-years & of course assist on DG Hunts. Highly doubtful or legal that a PH gets licensed on Friday & is guiding a client on a Buff hunting Monday.