Your favorite DG scope reticle?

[matt85]

as the title says, what is your favorite scope reticle for DG?

im looking for a scope the new DG rifle ive got on the way and im trying to decide on a reticle. at the moment im leaning towards getting a Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20 with the Firedot circle reticle. this reticle seems like it would be ideal in a close range fast paced scenario. http://www.leupold.com/reticles/firedot-circle-illuminated/

-matt

 

[Code4]

German Zeiss #8 reticle.
The plex is familiar to most hunters and the thicker outer wires make target acquisition easier against all backgrounds and at dusk. The inner wires are finer than those on a Leupold #4 and make shot placement at longer distance easier.

Beware, some thick reticles are 'thick' everywhere.

 

[IdaRam]

Hey Matt,
I'm a big fan of the VX-R. The FireDot and Ballistic FireDot are excellent reticles. You might take a look at this:
http://www.africahunting.com/threads/leupold-vx-r-scout-scope-project.16747/

 

[drew416]

I had the custom shop fit a Firedot Special Purpose Illuminated (circle inside a circle with cross hairs and Illuminated dot in the middle) reticle to my new VX-R 3-9X50
with 30mm tube for an upcoming Leopard hunt.

 

[ActionBob]

Matt;
I like your scope choice in that price range and for a short range gun..... If it was a longer range gun like a 375, I might suggest the VXR 2-7 or better yet (but double the cost) a VX6 in 1-6 or even 2-12.

For the reticle in a VXR, I would personally go with the firedot 4 as a first choice, firedot duplex as second, and the firedot circle would be my last choice of those listed for that scope. And definitely would not go with the HOG option.

The less clutter the better. Or if this will be a 50 to 100 yard gun where you almost want a red dot type sight but yet still want the ability to have 4x if needed... Look at the Trijicon post with the illuminated triangle on top of it. it is a 1-4 x24 30mm scope. But for over 100 yards I don't like it as for my eyes that triangle is not as precise as cross hairs.

Bob

 

[matt85]

actionbob, this scope will be going on a rifle chambered in 505 Gibbs. while shots over 100 yards are possible with this rifle its not what im going for. my idea of a proper dangerous game hunt consists of getting inside of 50 yards. what ever scope I end up with I wont need a power range higher then 5 but I certainly could use a power range closer to 1.

the VX-6 1-6x24 sounds good but the price keeps scaring me off. is the VX-6 really twice as good as the VX-3 or VX-R? the VX-6 is also a fair bit heavier then its cheaper cousins at 14.6 oz which isn't doing it any favors in my book (VX-3: 9.3 oz VX-R: 11.5 oz). perhaps if I had a chance to compare the VX-R and the VX-6 side by side I wouldn't be so nervous dropping the coin.

its funny you picked the reticles in that order for the same reason I chose the firedot circle. I figured the circle didn't have the thick bars that other reticles do which clears up more of the scope. I wanted thin lines with very little in the way so I could get a clear look at the animal. the circle in the center actually seems like it could be useful for situations like a fleeing animal or a charge where hitting a moving target is involved.

-matt

 

[ActionBob]

Matt;
I am told the VXR is the same quality glass as the VX3. Certainly no need for greater than 4x for your use and I agree you are more likely to want the 1x and as wide a field of view as possible... But on 1x you can turn that illuminated dot up bright and just point with both eyes open. I'm not very good at that because I was trained at an early age to close one eye and that is nature for me now... But in theory both eyes open is the way to go for your stated purpose.

The glass on the VX6 is higher quality and to me it is just a pleasure to look through... Like looking though a Swarovski. But I would concede that at 50 yards that is probably not all that big a deal. Where the VX6 really shines through though is field of view, and possibly low light. In my Leupold book it shows 114' at 100 yards set at low power, the VXR is 75' while the Vx3 is 68'.

I think many would agree a Swarovski Z6i in 1-6 is as close to the ultimate DG scope for all the big 5, especially leopard. To me, the VX6 illuminated is as close to that as you can get in that $900-$1000 range. If you plan to ever shoot a leopard with that rig, the VX6 may be worth the extra money for the better low light ability... Although a lot of leopards have certainly been taken with much poorer scopes than the VXR. I assume it is not a gun you would use for hippo or croc, at least not hippo in the water.

For the money and the stated use, it is hard to do better than that VXR. Another you could check out in that price range and just to complicate things more is a Vortex. I think it is actually a tactical scope but they have a bright red circle option. And again the Trijicon is the only one I know of that is illuminated with no batteries. Probably the ultimate in reliability for DG. Ivan Carter is pushing them.

As for the reticle, I have discovered that when hunting it is hard to do better than a simple cross hair... I was sold a Swarovski for my 30-06 that has that Christmas tree shaped reticle for holdover and windage. It is just too much to look at when you need to make a shot quickly.

That #4 type seems to pull the eye to the target while opening up the view on the top. But to each their own and if you like the circle, go for it. I cannot argue with your logic. I would strongly urge you to stay away from something that gets busier such as that pig plex that Leupold offers.

 

[Velo Dog]

Matt85,

I think it was ActionBob who said "the less clutter the better" and I agree.
However, my definition of that statement is from the grumpy old fart dictionary.
IE:
1st choice, just old fashioned, straight, heavy crosshairs.
2nd choice, fine lateral crosswire and pointed verticle post ("Washington Monument shaped"), that ends at said crosswire.
3rd choice, heavy duplex.

Never planning to hunt leopard, I see no point in a lighted reticule for me personally, just one more piece of clutter that I do not need in my life.
But if you plan to hunt them, perhaps those people here, who have actually shot a leopard(s), especially the PHs hopefully chiming in, might have a different idea on lighted reticules.

As far as the .505 Gibbs goes though, I would be nervous about scoping it for my use of that cartridge.
I'd prefer either a wide-shallow V rear and large white front bead (what I shot the buffalo in my avatar with on my .450 No2 double).
Either that or a stout front blade and rear peep/aperture, preferably with some kind of reinforced "wings" to protect it from bumps and snags.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[bassasdaindia]

vx6 1-6x24 , it's still cheaper than a swarofski

 

[CAustin]

Matt85 I used the Luepold VX6 1x6 but no firedot. You get a 120 foot wide field of view with 0 magnification. I didn't like the firedot to be honest. By the way that scope comes with the Custom Dial System which makes the longer shots easier.

 

[ActionBob]

the VX-6 1-6x24 sounds good but the price keeps scaring me off. is the VX-6 really twice as good as the VX-3 or VX-R? the VX-6 is also a fair bit heavier then its cheaper cousins at 14.6 oz which isn't doing it any favors in my book (VX-3: 9.3 oz VX-R: 11.5 oz). perhaps if I had a chance to compare the VX-R and the VX-6 side by side I wouldn't be so nervous dropping the coin.

-matt

Matt; I would say there are very few things that cost twice as much but are "twice as good".. That is usually not how things work. Quality comes in increments and they get harder to achieve the higher you go, thus more expensive. You would be doing well if you get 25% improvement for double the price. Going from 75' FOV to 114' is very significant but not close to double. However if you are on a $17,000 buffalo hunt and aiming at one but a better one is just outside that 75' FOV and you don't see it, the extra $500 on a scope may have well been worth it had it helped you take a better trophy. Or what if there is one outside your FOV about to charge that you don't see as you are about to pull the trigger? Not high percentage scenarios with a good PH and trackers around you, but an example.

Likewise at last light on the last day, better glass that makes a 5 minute difference in being able to see to take a shot vs. passing can make or break the trip... Again maybe not likely.. But these are the reasons to pay extra.

A comparison I had pointed out at a business conference compared batting averages and pay level of baseball players.... Twice as good a batting average equals a heck of a lot more than double the pay. Incremental increases in performance are usually worth a lot more to a point and then diminishing returns come into effect that limit that upside. Only you can decide what is the right compromise for you.... Again, those are all good scopes.

To see the difference in glass quality, even if a store near you does not have a VX6 in 1-6, you could compare a 2-12 for example and just set both on 3x.

Are you really serious about counting 5 ounces on a scope for a 505? Planning to carry that thing up a mountain

P.S. Might consider staying in that VXR price range but investing in good QD mounts so you have the iron sight option at your fingertips. I would certainly consider the grumpy old man's long in the tooth experienced opinions more heavily than those of us with less experience.

 

[ActionBob]

I would certainly consider the grumpy old man's long in the tooth experienced opinions more heavily than those of us with less experience.

Oops sorry, that was "grumpy old fart" my bad.

 

[ActionBob]

I had the custom shop fit a Firedot Special Purpose Illuminated (circle inside a circle with cross hairs and Illuminated dot in the middle) reticle to my new VX-R 3-9X50
with 30mm tube for an upcoming Leopard hunt.

Drew that sounds very similar to what I saw in a Vortex. But in a 1-4 or thereabouts.

 

[matt85]

you guys make a very good point about the field of few. while going from 75 to 116 isn't double, its impressive enough to make the cost seem more valid. perhaps the VX-6 is a better option especially in a heard situation where im trying to identify a single animal out of a group of moving targets.

as far as the extra couple ounces, perhaps it wont matter so much in Africa but im sorta stuck in my ways when it comes to looking at scope weight. i have always been instructed to add as little weight as possible to a rifle.

Velo Dog, you do make a good point. i am bit nervous about scoping the 505 due to recoil but im really fond of the firedot system so id like to try it. a while back i had a chance to try a Leupold VX-R 2-7x33 and was very impressed! Leopold guarantees their scopes can handle any recoil and i have iron sights to back it up in case the scope fails so ill give it a shot. before i go over seas ill make sure my load regulates to both the iron sights and the scope, just in case.

-matt

 

[Spooksar]

Trijicon 1x4 with the green triangle, worked very well on my 470 when I went Cape Buffalo hunting. I've now put it on a 416 Rigby and my new 450 Rigby

 

[Velo Dog]

Matt85,

I hear you loud and clear.
But I was not referring to the scope failing when I said I'd be nervous about it, although the .505 probably would be a fine test of scope construction (and mounts/rings as well).
What concerns me about scoping a .505 is the probability of cutting my face to the bone from the rear scope lens housing or rear "bell", during recoil.
A couple of my decent kickers will not be scoped, especially my .500 Jeffery for that reason.
If you decide to scope your .505, I hope I am wrong about this.

Kind regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[matt85]

that is also a valid concern Velo Dog. I have a couple tricks to deal with this when I mount a scope to a heavy kicking gun. the first method is to set the scope to max power and move it as far forward as possible while still being able to see clearly threw it. if that method still comes across as risky, then you set the scope to a couple notches below high and do the same. that will limit the scope to a lower power but will remove the risk of being hit with a scope. (effectively you turn a 1-6x24 into a 1-4x24 to increase the eye relief)

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

that is also a valid concern Velo Dog. I have a couple tricks to deal with this when I mount a scope to a heavy kicking gun. the first method is to set the scope to max power and move it as far forward as possible while still being able to see clearly threw it. if that method still comes across as risky, then you set the scope to a couple notches below high and do the same. that will limit the scope to a lower power but will remove the risk of being hit with a scope. (effectively you turn a 1-6x24 into a 1-4x24 to increase the eye relief)

-matt

Sounds like a good plan.
Also, I do not know if you're interested in any of these extended eye relief / scout scope things on the market lately.
They seem like they'd be a natural preventative measure against a cut face, if you must scope a heavy duty recoiler.
I have tried one (on a .308) but found it to be awkward and unhandy (too much weight too far forward), not to mention funny looking.
For those who like them though, it might be an option on such as the .505 and similar kickers.
Again, I only want easy to see iron sights on my largest artillery.
I do not consider the .375 H&H in that definition, as the .375, especially in a bolt action, begs to be scoped.

 

[ActionBob]

And it looked like the VXR is soon to be available in a scout scope version, from the thread about the scout scope project.

BTW, can anyone explain the concept of the "scout scope"... What is the reason for wanting to mount it so far forward?

What about a red dot or holographic type? What is that thing Ivan Carter has on his double?

 

[Velo Dog]

And it looked like the VXR is soon to be available in a scout scope version, from the thread about the scout scope project.

BTW, can anyone explain the concept of the "scout scope"... What is the reason for wanting to mount it so far forward?

What about a red dot or holographic type? What is that thing Ivan Carter has on his double?

ActionBob,

The term "scout scope" probably originated with Jeff Cooper - founder of Gunsight Raven Ranch, near Prescott Arizona.
Perhaps he got the idea to name it that from the Military application of Scout/Sniper or Scout/Sharp Shooter?
According to himself, the whole idea was to be used with both eyes open at all times and with the scope far forward, it was supposed to be faster acquiring the target.
Again, I found the one I tried to be awkward and not as fast for me personally as some of my old fashioned rifles and scope combinations (low powered scope in low rings, mounted down very close to the rifle/bore).
Once I had a Ruger .257 Roberts with a 1970s vintage Leupold 3x scope that I sacked piles of running jack rabbits with, back during my sordid youth.
It was really fast, yet I could also hit small targets with same at what I thought was very long distance, as long as the wind was not blowing.

Plus the "scout scope/scout rifle" is supposed to be faster to recharge than a typical top loading bolt action magazine, since the scope is not situated over the action.
Seems like lately though, even bolt guns are often made to accept a box magazine from the bottom, like any typical self loading military rifle of today which, cancels the scope forward/faster reload idea (if it really was any faster to begin with).
Once I met Mr. Cooper and found him to be an arrogant/condescending/self absorbed/holier than thou character so, I never trained at his place.

Instead I managed to luck into my former employer (I retired from Law Enforcement 12 years ago) paying for me to train with Clint Smith in his early years (prior to his moving onto the property now known as "Thunder Ranch" in Texas.
Mr. Smith was top drawer and if he is still in business, I would heartily recommend him for all your firearms training wants and needs.

As for the red dot and holograph sights of today, I have no experience with them and therefore I have no opinion of them.
I think Carter's sight in question is a Tricicon holograph or red dot sight of some sort.
I notice he advertises it heavily at the beginning of his "Tracks Across Africa" show (excellent, perhaps the best of the best hunting show on television, in my opinion).
But, he usually does not have it on his rifle during most of his segments wherein he is guiding any client for elephant or buffalo.
He generally just goes with the open sights during most of his televised hunts (I am a total dunce compared to Ivan Carter but, I also prefer only express sights on any double I will ever own, even if someday I realize my dream to own one in .303 British).

Hopefully that made things as clear as mud.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.