The "Best" big bore cartridges ever created!!!

[Tug]

The Best, is easy for me
500 A2-simple. 460 Weatherby brass (which is great) fire-form, load 98-100 grains of Varget, 570 grain Barnes X
My rifle BRNO 602, mine started as 458 Win, action needed no work, Bell & Carlson stock, steel picatinny rail, TPS rings, Nikon Slughunter scope

Did you have to change the bolt face diameter?

 

[MLindsay]

Did you have to change the bolt face diameter?

yes, did not have to do anything for action to feed cases

 

[Northern Shooter]

I wonder how the 450gr 458WM (Barnes) load compares to the full power loads? Velocity is 2,240 fps, energy is 5,115 ft-lbs.

Here is loading data.

Barnes Powder Charge

 

[skydiver386]

Ballistic studies are always enjoyable and there is plenty to learn if you approach things with an open mind.

Whenever you put the word "Best" into any discussion, it helps to narrow things down to not only specify game species, but what type of shot, ie Elephant brain vs body shots.

The .375 H&H is always going to be a favorite for Dangerous Game, and easily the best all around cartridge for hunting Africa, but would not be the first choice of many on this forum for body shots on Elephant.

Another factor mentioned by @Mark A Ouellette is the particular bullet used. When manufacturers design a bullet, they often have no idea what cartridge it will be loaded in, what game will be hunted, at what distances, or any other factor that will effect it's performance. In the .308 dia., factories tend to use 30-06 velocities a baseline for designing that caliber. Their Premium 150 grain bullet may be used by handloaders in a 14in 30-30 T/C Contender pistol, or a 26in 300RUM, yet customers will expect equal performance from both.

Selecting the "Best" should obviously start with the species being hunted, then the recoil that particular hunter is capable of shooting accurately, then the bullet most suitable for that game under conditions of that hunt if possible.

 

[Tug]

Ballistic studies are always enjoyable and there is plenty to learn if you approach things with an open mind.

Whenever you put the word "Best" into any discussion, it helps to narrow things down to not only specify game species, but what type of shot, ie Elephant brain vs body shots.

The .375 H&H is always going to be a favorite for Dangerous Game, and easily the best all around cartridge for hunting Africa, but would not be the first choice of many on this forum for body shots on Elephant.

Another factor mentioned by @Mark A Ouellette is the particular bullet used. When manufacturers design a bullet, they often have no idea what cartridge it will be loaded in, what game will be hunted, at what distances, or any other factor that will effect it's performance. In the .308 dia., factories tend to use 30-06 velocities a baseline for designing that caliber. Their Premium 150 grain bullet may be used by handloaders in a 14in 30-30 T/C Contender pistol, or a 26in 300RUM, yet customers will expect equal performance from both.

Selecting the "Best" should obviously start with the species being hunted, then the recoil that particular hunter is capable of shooting accurately, then the bullet most suitable for that game under conditions of that hunt if possible.

For some reason, people are quick to jump up and tell me my premises are flawed—mainly because they think I forgot about bullet selection, which they argue is the most important factor. Then, of course, the hunter’s skill and experience become the most important aspect, too. So what’s the point?


At least, that’s how it comes across to me.


What I want to clarify—hopefully once and for all—is that I do agree that the bullet, the hunter, the animal, and the type of hunting being done are all more critical considerations than just cartridge selection.


However, people need to recognize that:

• The animal you’re hunting is a personal consideration.
• The bullets available to you are a personal consideration—I have no idea what your local gun store stocks.
• Your recoil tolerance is also a personal consideration.

My table exists to demystify cartridge performance (assuming an adequate bullet of your choice) and to help people compare options logically for their specific needs. It’s meant to provide a clear, simplified foundation for understanding cartridge performance—without anecdotes or personal stories muddying the analysis.


And as for the word “Best”—it’s in quotation marks for a reason. The answer is inherently subjective.

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

Agree.......strange what the 458 wm guys cime up with to justify the round......

500 Jeff with 570 or 600gr bullets is devistatingly effective......so is a 505 Gibbs with 600gr bullets. Cannot even start comparing them to the 458 wm as there is no cimparison......

When the Gibbs enters the locker room, the 458 changes in the stall…

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Love the effort but I can think of a dozen calibers I would prefer to hunt DG with over the 375 H&H….also keep your voices down as I don’t want to upset my 505 Gibbs aka “Thor’s Hammer”. He can be moody when people start criticizing his ability to take a life.

HH

 

[Northern Shooter]

View attachment 670927
When the Gibbs enters the locker room, the 458 changes in the stall…

What a beast!

You don't happen to have a 450 Rigby or 416 Rigby on hand do you to show the visual comparison vs the Gibbs?

 

[Uncontrolled_round_feed]

I do not…but could do a 375H&H and a 416 Rem if that’s worthwhile…

What a beast!

You don't happen to have a 450 Rigby or 416 Rigby on hand do you to show the visual comparison vs the Gibbs?

 

[skydiver386]

Factory loads for the 450 Rigby and 505 Gibbs give similar power.

The 450 Rigby is factory loaded with 500grain bullets at 2350fps.

The 505 Gibbs is factory loaded with 525grain bullets at 2300fps.

Both can be loaded to higher pressures, but these are current factory figures. With higher pressures and heavier bullets each can produce well over 7500fpe.

What fun!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Factory loads for the 450 Rigby and 505 Gibbs give similar power.

The 450 Rigby is factory loaded with 500grain bullets at 2350fps.

The 505 Gibbs is factory loaded with 525grain bullets at 2300fps.

Both can be loaded to higher pressures, but these are current factory figures. With higher pressures and heavier bullets each can produce well over 7500fpe.

What fun!

My 25" barrel .450 Rigby clocks 2450 fps for factory Federal 480 grain loads.

 

[skydiver386]

My 25" barrel .450 Rigby clocks 2450 fps for factory Federal 480 grain loads.

The amount of amalgam in my teeth probably wouldn't handle such a load.

 

[grand veneur]

With a good load, the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum is still the best you can have in the big bore class. With a higher muzzle velocity compared to other big bore cartridges, this cartridge has a very good external ballistic and therefore it is possible to shoot at longer range if necessary. The impact velocity required for a good terminal ballistic remains preserved for many shooting distance. The cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum could have been the ultimate big bore cartridge if Roy Weatherby had not made some mistakes at the beginning, errors that are responsible for the unfounded but persistent bad reputation of this cartridge. Any serious big bore rifle has a strong recoil. Those who don't have it, shoot a cartridge with poor ballistics.

 

[skydiver386]

With a good load, the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum is still the best you can have in the big bore class. With a higher muzzle velocity compared to other big bore cartridges, this cartridge has a very good external ballistic and therefore it is possible to shoot at longer range if necessary. The impact velocity required for a good terminal ballistic remains preserved for many shooting distance. The cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum could have been the ultimate big bore cartridge if Roy Weatherby had not made some mistakes at the beginning, errors that are responsible for the unfounded but persistent bad reputation of this cartridge. Any serious big bore rifle has a strong recoil. Those who don't have it, shoot a cartridge with poor ballistics.

Are you referring to the Weatherby freebore, or the stock design, or the overall weight of the rifles?

 

[Tom Leoni]

I'm still unclear about what different people mean by "best." Fastest? If so, why? With the most sectional density? With the largest frontal diameter and the most sectional density? Striking the perfect balance between proven deadliness and ease of carrying and shooting?

To me, the best big bore cartridge/bullet combination is one that 1) penetrates to the vitals without being too finicky on angle, 2) is reasonably easy to practice with and shoot without giving the hunter a flinch, 3) has enough frontal diameter to cause a sufficient mechanical disruption of tissue for the intended quarry, and 4) may be chambered in a rifle that is comfortable to carry and not too heavy.

Please notice that I didn't mention velocity. I see a big bore as a 150-yard max cartridge and 140 years of data have shown that velocities of 2,000 to 2,500 fps are about the magic spot for optimal terminal performance.

 

[IvW]

500 Jeff with 600gr premium bullet is the ultimate big bore rifle cartridge

 

[grand veneur]

Are you referring to the Weatherby freebore, or the stock design, or the overall weight of the rifles?

I answered to the question:

The "Best" big bore cartridges ever created!!!

What is the best rifle for the best big bore cartridge is a different topic. The best big bore cartridge, if such a thing really exists, can no longer be the best in a rifle that is not suitable for it.

 

[John Telford]

If anyone wants the 600grain, 505Gibb added to the list, they will need to give me some handload or a copy of some factory data because I cannot find any at all!!!

Also, thanks to everyone that has appreciated the table, and I'm working on another revision that will hopefully include more useful information.

If anyone feels I have missed an important load, please send me some factory load data, or if it's a rare cartridge, a reasonable handload.

134 grns N560 @2250fps using Dzombo solids.

 

[John Telford]

G'day John,

I couldn't find any factory loads, so this data is from Quickload, so it's probably not as good as reality. and the pressure is too high.

416 Taylor 400gr DGX, 70.3 reloader 15, 64840PSI

View attachment 670680

I would argue the data has some relevance. If I had to pick winners for each group based on the data shown, it would be the 375H&H 416 Rem and 458Lott/458Win mag. Which reflects reality in the real world, where these are some of the most popular cartridges used. Double rifles, I'm not sure it's a very niche field.

Thanks.

 

[John Telford]

The fashion in Botswana is .450 Rigby loaded with 600grns .
Solids will reach the vitals of a big bull elephant from any angle.
Never tested this personally but that’s the talk around the campfire..