It's started here!

[CBH Australia]

All this talk of price gouging and scalpers sell components worries me.
Now I learned a few months back pistol powders are not available, All Stores.
Today, it started. People are advertising powders and Primers at inflated prices.
I'm out to make a dollar but not sure this is sporting.

 

[USMA84DAB]

Let me share with you about "scalping"...

As a gun show vendor in the states, I tried to bring powder and primers to Clients at the shows. I bought about $5,000 worth of powder - found like a gold miner, digging the canisters out of rock and stream across the country - all bought at HEALTHY RETAIL prices from places like Powder Valley. But I found an extremely scarce commodity and brought it to the Client - Paying hazmat fees each time 5 pounds became available because it was buy the powder that second, or it would sell out from under you. By the time I got the powder to the show I had paid $35/pound. Add $160 for tables, man hours for set-up, tear-down, 9 hours of show SAT, 6 hours of show SUN. I priced the powder at $40/pound - 12.5% - the mark-up commonly taught in business halls is 25-30% to break even. I barely sold any powder at all. Everyone shuffling by decided they would "wait for the prices to come back down".

Or how about primers? After over 6 months of never finding any in stock anywhere, a vendor had small rifle primers available for $120/1,000. LIMIT of two packages. $40 Hazmat fees. $20 shipping. So now I was really up to $180/1,000 primers. I put them on the table for $20/100 sleeve ($200/1,000) and you'd have thought I had raped their mother. The vile, disgusting crap I took from these "Lookey Lou" tire kickers thinking the gun show was a flea market/garage sale was insane.

Before you cast stones at the Scalpers, perhaps you need to know the realities of the supply chain costs.

 

[shootist~]

You scalpers just make the problem much worse.

 

[USMA84DAB]

You communists will be the death of the world.

 

[baxterb]

It’s the tragedy of the commons as applied to gun stuff. Fear a shortage, find a resource and over-extract it, eventually causing the shortage you feared.

powder and primers are no different than the toilet paper or sanitizer during Covid. Most people have stuff they bought but never used still sitting on the shelf.

 

[deewayne2003]

After the shortages starting in 2008 I decided that “just in time inventory” was a liability and I would do the opposite from then on.

Doesn’t matter if it’s toilet paper or ammo; if it’s a good that is shelf stable and I use it on a regular basis - then I try to buy at least a 3 month supply when available.

 

[baxterb]

After the shortages starting in 2008 I decided that “just in time inventory” was a liability and I would do the opposite from then on.

Doesn’t matter if it’s toilet paper or ammo; if it’s a good that is shelf stable and I use it on a regular basis - then I try to buy at least a 3 month supply when available.

I grew up fairly poor. We never had ammo, and when we went to buy it, it was a big deal. When I finally started making my own decent money, I made a vow never to leave a gun store without a box of ammo of some type - this expanded into reloading supplies when I began reloading. This meant maybe a box or two a month. No more than a regular user, but I didn’t use it as I got it - just kept a reserve.

this has worked very well for me - I never felt the need to rush to over-grab products or buy out of fear.

i do this with food as well.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Let me share with you about "scalping"...
........

You just slid down that demand curve.

More importantly, I think you are getting some feedback on the slope of that demand curve for those products.

 

[Shootist43]

Being a relative newcomer (only 6 years) to the need for Large Rifle Magnum Primers, I didn't keep very many in stock. I did have a backorder for a case of 5,000 Federal 215(s) for $288.00 plus shipping and hazmat with a major supplier. My backorder was cancelled by the supplier, so I began looking for some. I witnessed a case of similar product sell for over $1,700.00 on a "bidding" website. While I don't mind a guy making a fair profit, this was "scalping" and I want no part of it.

 

[Firebird]

When powders and primers do show up at the box stores, powders that used to be $27-35 are now $42-48 per pound. Inflation due to limited supply and limited availability of raw materials. . .

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I’ve never understood the concept of price gouging. To me it looks like the market adjusts until supply meets demand at a given price.

If anything, these “anti-gouging” directives we see at times during storms or shortages and whatnot make the problem worse. If the price is not allowed to adjust up to reflect market conditions, people are more likely to hoard because the items are essentially on sale. And if the price isn’t allowed to go up, the producers have less incentive to bust ass to fill demand.

 

[TucsonFX4]

I’m a little torn with this issue, as I’m a proponent of free market economics. But I also believe the 3rd party piece of these economic issues is negatively affecting the reality of these prices/economics.

If reloader A could walk into his local store and pick up a pound of needed powder or sleeve of primers, all would be “normal” (notwithstanding other inflation issues across all industries). However, if reloader B walks in, buys everything on the shelf and then takes it to gunbroker or a gun show to sell it (at a profit as anyone would expect, because no one would do that work and associated costs for free), is that a service to the industry? For some it is, for others it isn’t. Whether it be because you don’t live near any retail shops or aren’t internet savvy, etc, I’m sure plenty of people rely on these shows and auction type sites. But when I walk into a local store and they say they had a few thousand primers on the shelf the day before, but one person walked in and bought them all, it makes me question their intentions. Resell for profit at my expense, high volume reloader for personal use, hoarder, who know??? I can appreciate different perspectives, and I suspect this would be better if everyone would think of those around them.

 

[Hunt anything]

Most of my local shops have put a limit on the amount of ammunition or components a single person can buy in a day, some pistol ammo and 5.56 ammo is in pretty good supply but still hard to find any hunting caliber ammo.

 

[JimP]

Since most hunting starts in the fall here in the US I don't expect to see it on the shelves until at least mid summer.

5.56 and most pistol ammo is shot year round so I can understand it showing up more often.

As for supply, I try to keep at least 2 years of what I use on my shelf. When I signed the contract for my upcoming African safari I had to go take stalk of just what I had on hand as far as the rifle that I planned on taking. If I hadn't had enough ammo for that rifle I would of just switched over to another one.

I have actually taken stock of just what I have on hand and have sold quite a bit of powder that I either don't use anymore or don't need. I've even offered primers to friends and family.

 

[Paul G]

I disagree, I don't mind it. For all I know the powder makers has a much higher margin on it than the scalper, plenty of people have something sitting around and it's only worth selling at a certain price for them. If someone is charging too much it won't sell, it's simple supply and demand. I find this system of barter a lot more healthy than the alternative. I don't go to work for free and pretty sure most if you don't either and likely have a job because of this system. If you disagree don't buy from them.

 

[Paul G]

I’ve never understood the concept of price gouging. To me it looks like the market adjusts until supply meets demand at a given price.

If anything, these “anti-gouging” directives we see at times during storms or shortages and whatnot make the problem worse. If the price is not allowed to adjust up to reflect market conditions, people are more likely to hoard because the items are essentially on sale. And if the price isn’t allowed to go up, the producers have less incentive to bust ass to fill demand.

Be careful what you ask for right, you might just get it.

 

[Paul G]

You just slid down that demand curve.

View attachment 458997

More importantly, I think you are getting some feedback on the slope of that demand curve for those products.

View attachment 458999

First day Econ 101..

 

[WAB]

You scalpers just make the problem much worse.

How in the world can you call selling powder at $40 with a cost basis of $35, or primers at $200 with a cost basis of $180 scalping?? That doesn’t include show costs. If I’ve got the numbers right, that seems like a very unfair comment from where I sit.

 

[BRICKBURN]

First day Econ 101..

Sometimes, we don't like the lesson. That little curve is always dynamic. Timing is everything.

 

[Woodcarver]

I learned my lesson back in the Clinton era as far as potential for shortages. Keeping enough components on hand to weather a protracted shortage is just "normal" any more, at least for me. So my neighbors have been blessed to hear the sound of regular gunfire on the less windy days, as I have been able to continue feeding my affliction without paying exorbitant prices for components.
Even through the last 2 years of world wide stupidity and the resultant shortages, by being patient and persistent, I have been able to procure the powders needed and have not paid more than $33/lbs for any of it. That's only $2/lb more than some I bought in 2018. Primers have been more of a challenge, admittedly. But through barter mostly, those types I thought I was getting low on, were found and acquired.
Scalpers only succeed when there are people willing to be scalped. This is true of any commodity, whether it is reloading components or sporting event tickets or toilet paper. They do provide something of a service in that they usually have that which can't be obtained through normal channels. They have taken a risk with their capital to acquire stuff they think will be in short supply soon. Risk/reward. And the buyer gets to decide if the price is bearable. Nobody is forced to buy from a scalper. Except for health insurance, lol.