1 MOA accuracy less common than you think ?

[Daisy]

cool

 

[mark-hunter]

I wasn’t popular when I suggested that someone shooting 20 rounds a year is going to struggle to shoot MOA, even with the best rifle and scope.

OK. I have Sako 85, I know each rifle is individual in performance.
My 85 can shoot moa, less then moa, and more then 1 moa, depending if I do my part or use various ammo brands.
I also have a friend who sold his 85 not being happy with accuracy (reaching on occasion 2 moa), but he shoots quite a lot, and is able to make good results on target

But the last you said, is most probable cause.

 

[Warbeast]

Most days you would loose the 1k to me.
But that was with my big scope. (PMII)
Wouldnt accept anything that wasnt bughole with 5 shots.
Always had a fouled bore. So that cold bore would be as consistent as it could.

Nowadays i have a 6x Zeiss and i am okay with 1inch at 100m.
Wouldt go the trouble of tighten that up.
I know that wouldnt hinder at all getting game in the pot.

Still would try such a challenge anytime.
Its fun.

 

[Backyardsniper]

My standard for longer range application hunting rifles has evolved to be 5 shots that I can cover with a quarter and not be able to see any holes outside the quarter. A quarter measures .995 across. So for a 30 cal gun that would be a maximum of .995-.308=.687" group center to center. With a .338 that's .995-.338=.657" group. So give or take 5/8 MOA. If there is a little bit peeking out from under the quarter then maybe its .75 and maybe it's as little as .5 MOA if you cant see any. This keeps me from wasting ammo chasing groups. Once they are under that quarter the gun is shooting small enough groups consistently that any human error I make is gonna outweigh trying to shave off another .10 inch or whatever.
Why roughly half MOA? Half MOA off the bench gives me a 4" group at 800 yards which is about the max distance that I will take a shot in the field. If an animal, lets say an elk, has an 8" kill zone that gives me about an extra MOA of human error. Ranging error, bad wind call, whatever it may be. I prefer to keep the shots under 600, I would go 800 with perfect condition and a rifle like my 338 Lapua Ackley Improved. It shoots closer to .33 MOA consistently. Faster flatter heavier bullets give you more room for human error as well. Shooting is an art form like anything else, I am fortunate to have a 400 yard range 10 min from the house and I have access to places where I can practice out to a mile. Trigger time and knowing your equipment is the largest contributor to consistent accuracy.

 

[Backyardsniper]

My 416 Rigby on the other hand is roughly 1"-1.5" at 100 and will consistently bang a 6" gong at 400 yards. I practice that shot quite a bit and if it was necessary I would not hesitate to take a 400 yard shot on a wildebeast/Kudu sized animal if that was the only choice we had. Long range shooting is a handy tool to have in your room box. I have an elk on my wall that was killed at 623 yards. That was the only opportunity we had and I would have left that hunt empty handed if I had not been able to make that shot. I had practiced extensively before that hunt and even had my dope chart converted for the Density Altitude where we were hunting. That particular rifle would regularly shoot 1.5" 3 shot groups at 400 yards. That equates to about 3" groups at 600 and then allowed me another 5" for human error. The result was a one shot kill at roughly 3/8 of a mile.

 

[Backyardsniper]

The bear was taken at 567 with an accuracy international 338 AX, which I truly hope to never have to carry up a mountain again. Ha ha. A heavy rifle has the advantage in every situation, except carrying it.

 

[Backyardsniper]

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[Vinootz]

For factory ammo and factory rifles-that are capable- it depends what ammo the rifle likes. If it shoots sub MOA- I shoot sub MOA . If it doesn’t, I likely won’t either. I bet it’s the same for most shooters, whether they are hunters or not. Not including reloading either. I have to say, from fairly good experience with the aforementioned equipment, 20 continuous rounds in 2” is just as good to me for hunting to 300.
I never put too much faith in 3 shot groups -even 5 . When I’m not babying a barrel 20 shot 2” groups will prove capable enough.
I’m more interested in making sure I can hit a 200 yard 8” circle offhand.

 

[WAB]

For our friends who reside in countries that require firearms licenses and restrict how much ammunition they can buy every year, achieving 1 MOA for five rounds could be challenging. That would be even harder where handloading is illegal! But for those of us fortunate enough to reside where gun ownership is a right, with trial and err, and lots of practice, it is very achievable.

I had my friend Steve Huff of Accuracy X build me a dual purpose target and long range hunting rifle. It's a 6.5 x 284 built on his exclusive Accuracy X action with a medium contour Palma 28" barrel. I think I should drag this to South Africa and whack baboons at long range!
If you zoom in on the target in this photos, you can see the group is .3" center to center of the widest of the 5 rounds.
View attachment 606774

While not a MOA handgun, my custom Accuracy Long Slide (6" barrel) 1911 in 10mm demonstrated pretty good accuracy at 500 yards.
View attachment 606775

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You raise a great point. We are truly blessed with the shooting opportunities we have.

In the subject of reloading, my accuracy improved dramatically with the purchase of a McDonald Precision powder measure. I throw all charges within 2/100th of a grain.

 

[62flint]

Many rifles today are sold with one moa accuracy guarantee.
I wonder, did anybody ever filed a complain under guarantee if the rifle did not perform accordingly?
Any such experiences?

Yes. Christensen arms. They made it right.

 

[CBH Australia]

Hi Bowjijohn,

What your simulating is a long shot on a croc. If your off just a hair the croc is probably going in the water. This is going to cost the hunter after airfare, daily fee, trophy fee etc $10,000. I own a .300 WM M-70 that might pull it off, maybe.

At this time we have monster, man eating croc which lays on a island made to fit. Off the slightest & he is gone. We are trying to get permission from ZIM NP to take him as a trophy. Right now we only know of one or two of our past hunters who we are pretty sure could pull it off. One was offered the croc trophy fee only, he is not interested in croc. The way he shoots his double .470 he might pull it off? Mr. C you know who you are.

Excuse me if I deviated from the thread.

Lon

What distance would do you think the shot could be taken from? Assuming it goes well and you have some sort of vantage point in mind.

What’s the minimum calibre or cartridge you would allow a client to use?

Are they exportable?

I’m not a serious contender but I’m curious about what’s involved.

 

[cajunchefray]

I have put several rounds down range in my day and one of the toughest challenges I have had was at a once a month "sniper" competition at the local backwoods rifle range I shoot at. Range was 100, 200, 265, 330 and 400 yards. 2 moa and 1 MOA plates at each range. You drew numbers to see which order you would shoot those ranges. Long story short the 100 yard was the one that always got you. It was a 6" plate with a 1" hole in the center. You had to put 5 shots through the hole without touching any steel. it would humble you quickly. 4" plate at 400 yards, sure, not a big deal. 5 shots clean through that 1" hole at 100 yards would make you pull your hair out.

Now that is a challenge. Perhaps more shooters should be humbled. I know I would be.

 

[m457109]

Back in the 90’s I had two Ruger varmint rifles. One a 223 the other a 220 swift. Both m77’s, both both heavy barrel stainless with laminated stocks. Both of those rifles would easily keep 5 shots inside .8 moa. Was my goal in life to shoot a 5 shot group with either rifle with all 5 shots touching….never happened. Shot hundreds of groups with 4 shots in the .25-.35 range but always had a flyer just outside the cluster. Finally gave up and sold both rifles, but not before I killed a rail car load prairie dogs with them.

 

[Backyardsniper]

Now that is a challenge. Perhaps more shooters should be humbled. I know I would be.

It was a tough one, what made it tough was your rifle had to shoot sub MOA and it had to do it on the bullseye. Not to mention the pressure. If you threaded the needle with 4 of them your mind was trying to over think not screwing up that last shot. It was also timed but the time cap wasn't much of a factor. It was like 5 min or something like that.

 

[Warbeast]

Our mind is the most underrated ovstruktion many of us have to deal with

 

[Daisy]

Agreed. My adrenaline still gets up anytime an animal is in the crosshairs.

I will say big game hunting can make a lot of people feel like a great shot. With modern bullets and a large target the animals die with shots 4-5” off target. Shooting coyote actually tests my shooting skills much more.

 

[Daisy]

Hornady has several podcasts on accuracy, measuring accuracy/precision, ans statistically significant group size and its effect on accuracy/extreme spread/standard deviation. If you are a shooter like me, it will shake your perception to the core.

For example. I took a very consistent Savage 12VLP in 223 to the range and shot 20 shots. This rifle has turned in multiple 3 shot groups in the 0.3-0.5” size. Attached are the results

All of these shots “felt good”. There was some left to right wind and some suppressor mirage, but it is a representation of that day at the range and should be close to statistically significant accuracy representation

Bell curve accuracy/hit probability
0.586” =68.3%
1.17”= 95.4%
1.76” =99.7%

View attachment 606437

I guess that’s kind of his point.

In his thing your shots 1-5 would not have won his first or second challenge.

Lots of people here could warm up, take their best 5 round group, and shoot sub 1. But that’s not a hunting scenario.

 

[mark-hunter]

Lots of people here could warm up, take their best 5 round group, and shoot sub 1. But that’s not a hunting scenario.

Exactly!

 

[bowjijohn]

Well

Today I put our Black Dot of Doom scenario to the test

100m
1” black dot
One shot, cold bore
Off sticks
.22LR Cz 452

I missed by 2.5”

A young student attending today, never having shot off sticks before, nailed it !

I’m Gonna take up knitting

J

 

[mark-hunter]

A young student attending today, never having shot off sticks before, nailed it !

Younger people can do it better.
50 year old can not compete with 25 year old, in difficult shooting positions, such as standing from stick.