1910 Mannlicher

[Rolland]

I recently aquired ownership of a 1910 barreled action missing the stock and associated hardware, over the past few months I have aquired a stock and most of the hardware altho I am still needing a couple of items, the butt plate spring for the trap door and the latch for the pistol grip cap, and a front sight. Through the help of some very knowledgeable people on Nitro Express web site was able to learn a lot and find some parts I was missing.
In time also looking for reloading information as there does not seem to be much out there. I was in hopes that I might find some guidance here as well.
I always wanted one altho not necessarily in this caliber 95. x 57.
I can provide photos if needed.

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Welcome to AH.

Here's a note or two regarding der Mannlicher Schoenauer: https://www.africahunting.com/threa...908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

 

[SaintPanzer]

Working up some loads for this is on my "to do" list this spring. Really hoping the import of SHM brass works out. Will keep people posted here as we move along.

 

[Krink783]

If your Mannlicher is a Model 1910, it's probably in caliber 9.5x56mm M-S (AKA 9.5x57mm M-S).....that was the standard caliber for the Model 1910. Bullet diameter is .375.

 

[MS 9x56]

Is it in carbine or standard rifle length?

 

[Major Bonkers]

It will be the usual half-stock in that calibre.

(1) Parts available from: https://shop.miedler-waffen.at/Mannlicher-Schoenauer

Usefully, Herr Miedler will sell you a tang ('shotgun') safety, allowing the flag safety either to be kept in reserve or shrouded off.

There was discussion recently about the peep-sight that is often found on these rifles at the hand (or 'grip'). I hate this feature, as it jars that area of hand between the thumb and index finger, but others like it.

(2) Consider adding cross bolts to the stock/ action. If you are going to restock it, consider making it a takedown which, while not original, makes transportation easier.

(3) Reloading data from African Dangerous Game Cartridges by Pierre van der Walt (the bible), below (and my notes). The round itself is essentially a slightly underpowered .375 H&H.

(4) Avoid the modern Kynoch ammunition, which has a reputation for splitting at the neck.

 

[yamoon]

4895 seams toe the powder of choice in North America. Norma powders in Europe. Axel has posted several loads using Norma powder on the Nitro Express forum. I have been trying to work up a load using a ball powder, but so far I have had no luck.
Mike

 

[SaintPanzer]

4895 seams toe the powder of choice in North America. Norma powders in Europe. Axel has posted several loads using Norma powder on the Nitro Express forum. I have been trying to work up a load using a ball powder, but so far I have had no luck.
Mike

Which ball powder have you tried? I was going to start with VV N160, and maybe shift to N150...

 

[SaintPanzer]

It will be the usual half-stock in that calibre.

Guess I'm going to have to saw the front half of my stock off.

How long is your barrel?

I tried the Kynoch ammo once. Actually about 5 times. I think I had four cases split at the web. At least I was 5 for 5 on my Baden-Wûrtemburg needle shoot though. I'm told there was quite the bit of fire coming out the barrel. When I pulled the other rounds (of the box of 10), I found they were loaded with cordite. They were non-corrosive Berdan primers, I think we dated the box to the late 1950s. I tried playing with the empty cases to make some dummy rounds, but found it was very easy to crush the shoulder.

I'm thinking the combination of age and cordite did a number on softening the brass.

Mine does have a Lyman peep, but I've not found it to be in the way. I do have small hands, and I've been known to lay my thumb along the stock instead of wrapping it around the grip, in the old USMC Springfield manner.

One "modern" concession on mine: When I bought it, the front dovetail for the scope was soldered on the barrel, and not dovetailed into the receiver (which I was happy to see). I found an older scope stamped "Johann Springer Erben" on it, but the Vienna Springer Mount was a bit too far back, so I had a smith in Suhl make an "adapter" to move the mount a bit aft. Functional, but a bit ugly. I don't mind though, it's completely reversible, and my eyes aren't up to the iron sights anymore anyway...

 

[John Telford]

If your Mannlicher is a Model 1910, it's probably in caliber 9.5x56mm M-S (AKA 9.5x57mm M-S).....that was the standard caliber for the Model 1910. Bullet diameter is .375.

Indeed- the 1910 is the 9.5x57 or 9.5x56 if you go by the Austrian designation since they measure from the groove of the rim.
The 1903 is the 6.5 MS
The 1905 is the 9x56
The 1908 is the 8x56

 

[John Telford]

It will be the usual half-stock in that calibre.

(1) Parts available from: https://shop.miedler-waffen.at/Mannlicher-Schoenauer

Usefully, Herr Miedler will sell you a tang ('shotgun') safety, allowing the flag safety either to be kept in reserve or shrouded off.

There was discussion recently about the peep-sight that is often found on these rifles at the hand (or 'grip'). I hate this feature, as it jars that area of hand between the thumb and index finger, but others like it.

(2) Consider adding cross bolts to the stock/ action. If you are going to restock it, consider making it a takedown which, while not original, makes transportation easier.

(3) Reloading data from African Dangerous Game Cartridges by Pierre van der Walt (the bible), below (and my notes). The round itself is essentially a slightly underpowered .375 H&H.

(4) Avoid the modern Kynoch ammunition, which has a reputation for splitting at the neck.

View attachment 672449View attachment 672450View attachment 672451View attachment 672452View attachment 672453View attachment 672456

I was with Pierre yesterday- the MS in the photo will be going on Auction with Classic Arms soon if anyone is interested.

 

[John Telford]

The best is to get brass from Qualicart but please full length resize before using or the headspace will be incorrect. I use 270 Woodleigh RN bullets and load to 2150.
These are light rifles so the recoil is rather noticeable. Oir MS club is planning a plainsgame hunt in June.
Report to follow.

 

[rookhawk]

The best is to get brass from Qualicart but please full length resize before using or the headspace will be incorrect. I use 270 Woodleigh RN bullets and load to 2150.
These are light rifles so the recoil is rather noticeable. Oir MS club is planning a plainsgame hunt in June.
Report to follow.

Not to be contentious, but I recommend the exact opposite. I do not trust SAAMI specs and the CIP / UK conversions from metric to imperial screw things up as well. What i do is remove the firing pin from the rifle, then I load a dummy round of factory brass. Does it fit? No. Okay, now bump the shoulder a smidge in your die, try again. Does it fit? No. Okay, get it to the point where you feel the tiniest resistence in the last 3-5 degrees of bolt throw. You're now headspacing on the shoulder for all that brand new brass and it will fit your gun. Size all of them just barely, to that exact spec.

Why? Because you may get case head separation if you full length size them. You'll definitely get reduced case life and thinning in the web at minimum. But bumping the shoulder back just barely ensures the hand loads will fit your chamber perfectly.

I'll reiterate, you must do all of this with the firing pin removed from the bolt both for safety and so you can feel the shoulder tension of the brass when you lower the bolt.

Full length sizing brings things into SAAMI spec. None of these old guns care about Sammy and his non-binding specs mean nothing .

 

[SaintPanzer]

SAAMI? Never heard of her.

I'll post this before Brian does:

Oh, and just for giggles... CIP:

 

[steve white]

Guess I'm going to have to saw the front half of my stock off.

How long is your barrel?

I tried the Kynoch ammo once. Actually about 5 times. I think I had four cases split at the web. At least I was 5 for 5 on my Baden-Wûrtemburg needle shoot though. I'm told there was quite the bit of fire coming out the barrel. When I pulled the other rounds (of the box of 10), I found they were loaded with cordite. They were non-corrosive Berdan primers, I think we dated the box to the late 1950s. I tried playing with the empty cases to make some dummy rounds, but found it was very easy to crush the shoulder.

I'm thinking the combination of age and cordite did a number on softening the brass.

Mine does have a Lyman peep, but I've not found it to be in the way. I do have small hands, and I've been known to lay my thumb along the stock instead of wrapping it around the grip, in the old USMC Springfield manner.

One "modern" concession on mine: When I bought it, the front dovetail for the scope was soldered on the barrel, and not dovetailed into the receiver (which I was happy to see). I found an older scope stamped "Johann Springer Erben" on it, but the Vienna Springer Mount was a bit too far back, so I had a smith in Suhl make an "adapter" to move the mount a bit aft. Functional, but a bit ugly. I don't mind though, it's completely reversible, and my eyes aren't up to the iron sights anymore anyway...View attachment 672514View attachment 672515

You're going to give me a case of hives talking about sawing off that stock. Better to find another solution, have a stock made, and donate the original to someone in need of originality.
To the OP, you can possibly find the parts you need by contacting The Mannlicher Collectors Assoc. They now have a website. There are classified in the back of their quarterly.

 

[Rolland]

wow thanks for all the information.
The rifle is a 1910 TD carbine lenght barrel 20 inches, it is a 9.5 x 57 verified by a chamber cast, it has the tang sight. I just finished fabricating the takedown pin after Brian provided me with a drawing, the spring was from another member. I am also having to make a latch for the pistol grip container as the tab was broken off. unless some could advise me where to go for the small parts.

I have a stock but it has a crack through the wrist that I am going to have to address, If the repair works out all right I will add a recoil lug prior to shooting and some bedding to strengten the stock,. I did have a stock duplcated but it did not meet my requirements. Once I get the rifle assembled and working I will address ammumtion for it.
This is a new venture for me as I have never had a chance to work on or own one and I very impress with the quality and workman ship that went into these rifles. I do appreciate the help and information provided.

 

[yamoon]

Which ball powder have you tried? I was going to start with VV N160, and maybe shift to N150...

WW748, I have been reloading for 60 years, but have always used IMR powders. I have zero experience with ball powders. I reached what should have been a max load, no pressure signs, but I began to worry about a sudden pressure spike. I originally wanted to use a ball powder for it’s lower burning temperature and ease of metering thru a measure.
Mike