.25 Caliber Rifle Cartridges and the Future of Them

[BeeMaa]

If I’m not mistaken, I think the .257 Weatherby was Roys favorite it’s a good one.

I have no conformation of this, but it's my understanding that he took a Cape Buffalo with it. His way of proving a point I guess.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Not a fast 25 but one that still has a small following is 25-20 and deserves atleast honourable mention.

@Skinnersblade
The little 25-20 is a fun cartridge that is very economical or can be landed up to reasonable levels
The 86gn cast flat nose with 3.4gn of trail boss is a fun round at a bit over 1,000fps
Load the 60gn Hornady flat point to 2,200 fps and its a dandy small game round out to around 125 yards.
The 75 gn speer flat point and 13gn of H4198 gives 1,800fps and is very effective on big Billy goats and medium fallow deer to 75 yards. With side on chest shots on big billies the mate was getting pass thru shots with massive internal damage. Fallow deer took a few steps and fell over dead.
At the moment I'm experimenting with 70gn speer blitz kings with 12gn of H4198 for single loading. Showing great promise at the moment and at the lower velocity should hold together well. They are supposed to expand down to 1,600fps so will be interesting on game.
Bob

 

[BeeMaa]

@BeeMaa
The 25WSSM was a good cartridge but didn't do anything the 25-06 wouldn't do better. Then som Muppet necked it up to 35 cal and mad a short arse 35 that almost matches the 358 Winchester. Why I don't know but hey what ever floats your boat.

The 358WSSM was made because of deer hunting legislation in Indiana saying that they would allow pistol caliber. Which meant going up to .358 caliber as a minimum but putting it in a rifle cartridge. It's my understanding that the performance falls between the 358WIN and your beloved 35W.

In addition to this all the WSSM cartridges fit into the AR-15 platform, while the WSM's will fit into the AR-10. This made them popular (for a fleeting minute) in the US.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I've been looking at a fast .25 caliber cartridge for a while now. The front runner for me has always been the 257WBY because it's wicked fast, deadly, low recoil and most importantly it fits nicely into the MA bolt head I already have for my Blaser R8. Here is a list of the most often used SAAMI approved .25's in no real order other than that's how I view the popularity of them.

25-06
257WBY
257RBTS
250-3000SAV
25WSSM
25-20WIN
25-35WIN
256WM

Recently I watched a YT video stating that there is possible expansion in the .25 caliber offerings in the coming year. They include a 25CM and 25PRC, neither of which I know anything about. Not to mention our own @Bob Nelson 35Whelen who has been making a wildcat rimmed 25 based on the 303BRIT cartridge. I believe the 25CM and 25PRC will be (or have been) submitted to SAAMI for certification.

I've been know to say on occasion "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again, there is nothing new under the sun" taken from the Book of Ecclesiastes. In my hunting years I've seen more than a few cartridges wither and nearly die, just like the 25WSSM. Outside of the competition world, do these new cartridges offer anything better when it comes to shooting game animals (less than 150#) at normal hunting distances of less than 500 yards? Better barrel life? Shoot higher BC bullets? Kill game more dead than any of the others? Don't even get me started on ammo availability.

Or is it all just marketing hype for a money grab? Because that's about where I'm landing on this. Feel free to chime and let me know how you feel about the current 25 caliber offerings and what you see for the future.

But didn't Bob tell us to just get a .243?

Just kidding, and happy New year!

 

[CoElkHunter]

One cartridge I did forget to mention is the 25REM.

And the Winchester .25-35.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I have a Ruger No. 1 in 25-'06... 25" Brux cut rifled barrel and nice custom stock.

AND a Dakota 76 short action in .257 Roberts. I like them both.

 

[rdog]

My youngest son is a 257 Weatherby fan it should get a mention on the, flat shooting cartridges
topic . its a Weatherby Vanguard 26 inch bbl but 3 shots & you can not touch the bbl its so hot,
Ammo & brass is to expensive, my vote would be the 25/06 much cheaper to run & easier on bbls. or a 6.5/06 much better bullet selection & run a 1-8 twist.

 

[CoElkHunter]

My youngest son is a 257 Weatherby fan it should get a mention on the, flat shooting cartridges
topic . its a Weatherby Vanguard 26 inch bbl but 3 shots & you can not touch the bbl its so hot,
Ammo & brass is to expensive, my vote would be the 25/06 much cheaper to run & easier on bbls. or a 6.5/06 much better bullet selection & run a 1-8 twist.

Yeah, I bought my first .25 (.25-06) Savage 110 a few months ago. I know it's not pretty but it shoots well and I bought it for hunting pronghorn and not target shooting. Hopefully, I'll draw a tag next year and will be able to try it out on game. I think the .257 Weatherby is a good choice too, but I was looking at the cost and availability of brass and factory ammo (I already had .25-06 brass and dies), so I went with the .25-06.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I did mention it in my opening post, albeit towards the bottom...but still listed.

The 25-20 is a rimmed cartridge that is used primarily in lever action rifles, but was also available in the Contender and a few other rifles as well.

@BeeMaa
Sako did a nice little bolt action 25-20. If you find one grab it.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As a huge fan of all things Weatherby and ‘06 derived, I am partial to both of those 25 derivatives. I am probably going with the 25-06 for my wife and kids.

Having said that, my Father-in-law has slayed thousands of Virginia deer with a 257 Roberts.

Good luck finding your 25 niche.

@BourbonTrail
Nothing wrong with a 25-06 and a 100gn TTSX at 3,400fps. Flat shooting, accurate and deadly.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Not a fast 25 but one that still has a small following is 25-20 and deserves atleast honourable mention.

@Skinnersblade
The 25-20 is a great little round
86gn cast bullet with 3.4gn of trail boss for a bit over 1,000fps. Fun and very cheap shooting. Small game up to 50 yards.

60gn hornaday flat point at 2,200fps for small game up to coyotes out to 150 yards.

75gn speer flat point @1,800fps with 13gn H4198. My mate has shot big Billy goats with it out to 75 yards. Complete pass thru breaking ribs on both sides and massive internal damage. Smaller fallow deer the same as the goats. One shot and down in 10 to 20 yards from his experience.

I have been playing with speer 70gn blitz kings for single loading. Results are promising and the bullet is supposed to expand down to less than 1600fps so should work well hopefully.
The little round kills better than ballistics and the size of the round would indicate as long as you use it within its limits.
Love my baby 25
Bob

 

[F. Vaccaro]

If I were going to get a .25, it’d be either the 06, Roberts, or the Savage.

 

[Shooter375]

As a couple of others have already alluded to in previous posts, the reason for the new 25's is that their SAMMI spec's call for a 1:8 twist instead of the 1:10 twist. That means that new factory rifles will be able to stabilize the new 135 grain VLD and ELD bullets that have high BC's for the long range game. High BC's mean flatter trajectories, less wind drift, and more energy on target. The 25 is undergoing the same update that the 6, 6.5, 7, and 300 have already received. If you are not shooting beyond 500 yards their is no reason to update.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

These didn't reach the target. May be I should have read the box first. It says 3,200fps as max velocity parameter

The 100gn TTSX doesn't have that problem at the same speed with less than half inch groups.
The 25s are known to be very accurate.
200 yard group with the better built 115gn balistic tips at 3,360fps

The 117gn SST is only 0.9" at 200 yards with the same velocity.
I do like my 25s. They kill shit no problems, no fuss. Just as @One Day... how his went in Africa. The game didn't complain about being hit by a so called litter quarter bore. They just plain died. Now if he took a 243 they would have died but not from massive internal damage but from laughter.
Bob

 

[rdog]

These didn't reach the target. May be I should have read the box first. It says 3,200fps as max velocity parameter
View attachment 508538
The 100gn TTSX doesn't have that problem at the same speed with less than half inch groups.
The 25s are known to be very accurate.
200 yard group with the better built 115gn balistic tips at 3,360fps
View attachment 508540
The 117gn SST is only 0.9" at 200 yards with the same velocity.
I do like my 25s. They kill shit no problems, no fuss. Just as @One Day... how his went in Africa. The game didn't complain about being hit by a so called litter quarter bore. They just plain died. Now if he took a 243 they would have died but not from massive internal damage but from laughter.
Bob

I think Bobs chronograph must be able to display any number thats in his head .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think Bobs chronograph must be able to display any number thats in his head .

@rdog
Me don't think so mate. Sesame Street only taught me to count to 10.
Before I use my chronograph I calibrate it with a 22 lr match round at 1,070fps and it has to read very very close to that before I start load testing.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think Bobs chronograph must be able to display any number thats in his head .

Telepathic chronography? LOL

 

[Scrumbag]

I have a 257 Roberts and I do like it. 120gr Speer SPBT do well for me I find (I use my Bob as a light deer rifle).

The 25 Creedmore is apparently looking good as a competition round. (Longer shots on steel should register a bit easier with heavier than 6mm pills which can be a critisms of 6mm Creed and 6x47 I understand).

As others have said, the 130 gr + bullets need a faster twist

Hornady just brought out a 134gr ELD-M, Berger have some 25 Cal bullets (Interestingly Berger have 257 Roberts data in their manual as apparently Mrs Berger liked hunting with hers)

Scrummy

 

[Cleveland48]

While I’ve never owned a 25 I would like to someday. I can see a 25/06 in my future. I’ve shot several 25/06 and 257 Weatherby on the range. The 25/06 and 270 win to me are the finest whitetail cartridges ever made. Plus I’d love to find a 257 Roberts for my daughter when she gets a little older.

 

[Rocco490]

The manufacturers just need to change their specified twist rates to a faster one in guns chambered in the 25-06 its a great case and would do well for these new long high bc bullets with it's specs for coal length and long neck with the case capacity it has it will push the bullets out at good velocities. Similar to the specified twist rates on the .223 rem getting faster to accommodate the heavier bullets now commonly used with it no new cartridge needed....