.277 Sig Fury for hunters

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Ok, we've heard NATO may be adopting the 6.8x51 Sig round.

An article on an Australian magazine says it looks like the Australian army will adopt it but there is a civilian designation of .277 Sig Fury of you can find ammo etc.

It seems to run at higher pressures because of a special case using an Stainless Steal case head attached to a brass case.

Is that a reloading proposition?

Assuming pressure increases velocity does anyone know what it's muzzle velocity using a given barrel length?

It's a .270 calibre so does it offer anything more for rifle hunters?

Is it going to be the elusive flat shooting cartridge that is a real changer?

@CBH Australia
Chris the 277 fury is supposed to be running at close to 80,000psi and will launch a 130gn projectile faster from a 16 inch barrel than a 270 win will from a 24 inch tube. The case head is steel and is specially fitted to a brass case. The higher pressures bond the 2 together making it impossible for gas leakage and the steel case head handles the pressures better than brass.
Will we ever see it as a hunting cartridge in Australia, possibly not in my life time.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The 277 SIG Fury and 6.8x51mm are identical.

SAAMI designated the 277 SIG Fury for certification. The US military has designated it the 6.8x51mm for solicitation of rifles for bid and trials.

As for reloading SIG says they are working on it, but don't recommend it. The 2 part stainless steel head with brass chamber is used for the tremendous pressure (80,000 psi) generated by this cartridge. This was done to generate nearly 3000 fps from a 140 grain bullet from a 16 inch barrel for use in military applications.

One can only imagine the velocity capability when coupled with a 24" hunting barrel and the proper burn rate powder. It's like Roy Weatherby meets Jack O'Connor with a dash of giddy up powder!

As for the benefit to the hunter...same performance in a shorter barrel if that is important to you. Trade off with not being able to reload until SIG works out whatever they have to. Probably stay with your 270WIN because it's all you will really need...that's what I'd do until all the kinks are worked out.

@BeeMaa
I wonder if'n that giddy up powder would work in the Whelen. If it did the mind boggles.A Whelen case with the same head set up as the fury and an even bigger does of giddy up powder. Holy shit batman hang onto your cape, this is going to be fun
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

'ol Bubba best check with his liability insurance agent before he does his first rebarrel job....

@Puddle
Ah just grind out the bolt lug recesses in the action and weld a bit more metal onto the lugs. Then weld a bit of one inch angle iron onto the left receiver wall to beef it up as well as use it for an offset scope. Grind a coupe of stripper clip groves into the rear of the action as well. This will allow rapid charger clip loading in case you come across a big mob if hogs.
See easy with a bit of imagination and a few bits if metal with a MIG welder and grinder.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Who is Bubba?


Yep, Just like Aguila ammo has been "introduced" to Australia. I know I bought Mexican made Aguila .22lr ammo in Myra's Sports store over 30 years ago. I don't know who the importer/wholesaler was.

@CBH Australia
And don't forget the new baby shot shells from aquilla

Just need a short action semi auto or pump to go with them.
A 1 and 3/4" 12 gauge shot shell.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@Puddle
Ah just grind out the bolt lug recesses in the action and weld a bit more metal onto the lugs. Then weld a bit of one inch angle iron onto the left receiver wall to beef it up as well as use it for an offset scope. Grind a coupe of stripper clip groves into the rear of the action as well. This will allow rapid charger clip loading in case you come across a big mob if hogs.
See easy with a bit of imagination and a few bits if metal with a MIG welder and grinder.
Bob

@CBH Australia
And don't forget the new baby shot shells from aquilla
View attachment 511779View attachment 511780
Just need a short action semi auto or pump to go with them.
A 1 and 3/4" 12 gauge shot shell.
Bob

Perhaps you have a fix to run short shells through the pump action or shorten the action stroke

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CBH Australia
And don't forget the new baby shot shells from aquilla
View attachment 511779View attachment 511780
Just need a short action semi auto or pump to go with them.
A 1 and 3/4" 12 gauge shot shell.
Bob

Wow! I've never seen a shotgun shell that short. My question would be, why?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Wow! I've never seen a shotgun shell that short. My question would be, why?

@CoElkHunter
Supposed to be good for coaching kids and home defence and lets not forget limp wristed fairies that refuse to wear big boy pants will be able to handle the big bad 12 bore.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
Supposed to be good for coaching kids and home defence and lets not forget limp wristed fairies that refuse to wear big boy pants will be able to handle the big bad 12 bore.
Bob

I guess you can fire them in a regular shotgun?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Wow! I've never seen a shotgun shell that short. My question would be, why?

Magazine capacity. You can fit way more in the tube. Most pumps need an adapter to work, but mossberg makes one that works with 1 3/4, 2 3/4, and 3”.
I personally don’t see the benefit, but have a friend who liked them.

 

[BeeMaa]

@BeeMaa
I wonder if'n that giddy up powder would work in the Whelen. If it did the mind boggles.A Whelen case with the same head set up as the fury and an even bigger does of giddy up powder. Holy shit batman hang onto your cape, this is going to be fun
Bob

Might as well put a double radius shoulder on it and call it the 35 Weatherby.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Might as well put a double radius shoulder on it and call it the 35 Weatherby.

I’m going to take this opportunity to clutch my Weatherby pearls and faint. “Oh, Lawd!”

 

[RTG]

I guess you can fire them in a regular shotgun?

Most pump action shotguns accept mini shells.

I've never used them but we sell a crap load of mini shells. People gobble them up. Something like 24+1 of 1.75" mini buck in your KelTec KSG for example.

 

[Hunter4752001]

LOL this thread started off discussing the .277 SIG Fury for hunting and has veered off course to short shotguns shells.

Getting back to topic. I emailed Blaser as to whether the R8 would be able to handle the 80,000 PSI pressures. They replied that they couldn't comment on potential new project such as new calibers. Fair enough, if you haven't put one together and tested it extensively then it would be dangerous to comment. They did however refer me to an article detailing pressure testing of the Blaser action to 200,000 psi. The article is in German so for those of us who don't read German it is best to paste the link into the website tab on Google Translate.

Blaser R 8 – Extremer Belastungstest

Deutsche Jagdzeitung - das erfrischend andere Jagdmagazin für den praxisorientierten Jäger mit spannenden Jagdfilmen auf Pareygo.de

djz.de

The article doesn't address the issue of .277 Sig Fury, nor provide comment on how well an actual rifle would perform, or last, with constant use of high pressure rounds. However it does suggest that at least the action would turn into a grenade.

Looking at how the brass flows during high pressure probably explains why the new round needs a steel case head. It also makes me suspect that it won't be feasible for reloading.

Still, nothing is certain until it's in production and fully tested.

 

[CoElkHunter]

LOL this thread started off discussing the .277 SIG Fury for hunting and has veered off course to short shotguns shells.

Getting back to topic. I emailed Blaser as to whether the R8 would be able to handle the 80,000 PSI pressures. They replied that they couldn't comment on potential new project such as new calibers. Fair enough, if you haven't put one together and tested it extensively then it would be dangerous to comment. They did however refer me to an article detailing pressure testing of the Blaser action to 200,000 psi. The article is in German so for those of us who don't read German it is best to paste the link into the website tab on Google Translate.

Blaser R 8 – Extremer Belastungstest

Deutsche Jagdzeitung - das erfrischend andere Jagdmagazin für den praxisorientierten Jäger mit spannenden Jagdfilmen auf Pareygo.de

djz.de

The article doesn't address the issue of .277 Sig Fury, nor provide comment on how well an actual rifle would perform, or last, with constant use of high pressure rounds. However it does suggest that at least the action would turn into a grenade.

Looking at how the brass flows during high pressure probably explains why the new round needs a steel case head. It also makes me suspect that it won't be feasible for reloading.

Still, nothing is certain until it's in production and fully tested.

Ha! Ha! It could be worse, we could be discussing the potential of Bob's @Bob Nelson 35Whelen 6.5 Samurai Express pushing 80K PSI? Only suitable in the Arisaka 99 action. LOL

 

[Rule 303]

I can understand the reasoning behind going away from the 30-06 and the 308 was not a bad choice, The 30-06 case, in my view is just too long for military use and the military types in the services these days. I do believe we need some thing better than 5.56. I prefer the 308 case and projectile diameters for penetrating wood , mud bricks etc over the lesser rounds. Plus our military does not need a new complicated to manufacture round at this time.

My Styer Pro Hunter in 270 gives me 3100fps with a 140 grain bullet and now pressure signs, with the 25 inch barrel.

 

[Rocco490]

Not a fan of this cartridge. Talk about being hard on components at 80,000 psi we are talking some very serious heat and pressures on the actions and barrels. I will believe the guns will last if they can prove it which I doubt. The whole design is stupid as hell and ridiculously costly. Gonna have a lot more recoil and weight and size and noise than the 5.56 guns. This round at 80000 psi out of a short 16" or less barrel will be extremely loud the guns will need that suppressor to help with the insane noise they are going to generate I have no interest at all in any of this. Feel bad for the end users I do not see this transition going smoothly

 

[Hunter4752001]

Agreed. However this post was about the use of the cartridge for hunters. The US military decision appears to have been made, and now it's time to live with it.

From a personal point of view, I've always believed that all adult citizens should own a rifle in the current military calibre of their country. Maybe considered irrational these days, but I have a belief that part of the duty of a citizen is to be able to do their part to defend family, community and country if the worst happens.

 

[Challer]

Going "full size" is always an option. Enter the HCAR from Ohio Ordnance Works chambered in 30-06. It pretty much a modern day BAR and is currently selling for around $7K in semi-automatic guise. Worth it in my book.
View attachment 511503

With 30 rounds of 30-06 you don't even have to aim!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Agreed. However this post was about the use of the cartridge for hunters. The US military decision appears to have been made, and now it's time to live with it.

From a personal point of view, I've always believed that all adult citizens should own a rifle in the current military calibre of their country. Maybe considered irrational these days, but I have a belief that part of the duty of a citizen is to be able to do their part to defend family, community and country if the worst happens.

@Hunter4752001
Mightn't have one in a current military calibre but have enough loaded round plus projectiles, primers and powder to hold off a small army for a while. If a few thousand rounds won't do I will put my head between my legs and kiss my arse goodbye but at least I will go down fighting.
Bob

 

[Rocco490]

Agreed. However this post was about the use of the cartridge for hunters. The US military decision appears to have been made, and now it's time to live with it.

From a personal point of view, I've always believed that all adult citizens should own a rifle in the current military calibre of their country. Maybe considered irrational these days, but I have a belief that part of the duty of a citizen is to be able to do their part to defend family, community and country if the worst happens.

My post was applying to both military and hunting use. The crazy pressures it operates at will be harder on anything. Perticuarly for hunting rifles the barrels will wear fast assuming anyone intends to actually use and practice with their rifle. For one hunting barrels are typically a slender profile and heat quickly also the steel is usually less wear resistant and bare (extremely rare to see hunting rifles with chrome lined barrels) so 80,000 psi is gonna chew up throats and rifling fast! Now as for the hunting actions most bolt actions are not gonna handle 80,000 psi well at all this would be very dangerous