.308 Winchester for Eland and Argali Sheep

[Foxi]

 

[enysse]

If you poke a hole in a human and he gets away, do you still have to pay the trophy fee?

I still think a .308 is taking any walking human not wearing a bullet proof vest down for the count.

While I think there are better calibers for eland, I think a .308 is fine for sheep hunting. Yes, I'd rather take my .300 Win Mag but that's another story. People act like the .243, .270, 30-06 and .308 can't kill anything

 

[Foxi]

While I think there are better calibers for eland, I think a .308 is fine for sheep hunting. Yes, I'd rather take my .300 Win Mag but that's another story. People act like the .243, .270, 30-06 and .308 can't kill anything

enysse,
a eland is heavier than a buffalo.
An argali ram has a weight from 200 kg,mostly not to get under 300m
With a .308 you have no shoot out,no blood ,no reserve,no dogs for the woundsearch.
Wounded not found is full price.
An Eland (at least Lord Derby) and an Argali is not to get under USD 30'.-
Nothing speaks against getting dressed appropriately

 

[enysse]

enysse,
a eland is heavier than a buffalo.
An argali ram has a weight from 200 kg,mostly not to get under 300m
With a .308 you have no shoot out,no blood ,no reserve,no dogs for the woundsearch.
Wounded not found is full price.
An Eland (at least Lord Derby) and an Argali is not to get under USD 30'.-
Nothing speaks against getting dressed appropriately

I shot an elk in Montana many years ago with my 270 Win. It was a 130 grain Barnes X bullet. I shot it through the lungs and it rolled down the mountain. I know someone that went Marco Polo sheep hunting with a 240 Weatherby and was successful. I'm not going to suggest that some one go out and buy a smaller caliber rifle for a $30000 dollar hunt but if they feel comfortable with it and shoot well it is possible to kill these animals they are not bullet proof. Having watched most of these animals in size get butchered in Africa, really they are not that different from North American game. A well placed bullet kills, a poor placed bullet doesn't. I have shot so many whitetail deer with a .243 Win and 100 grain power point bullet...that it was like magic when the gun when off. One shot, one kill.

Frankly I would not hunt an Lord eland derby with anything less than a 375 H&H. And if I was hypothetically hunting Marco Polo sheep it would be with a 300 Win Mag or more. Bigger is not always better............ I know everyone on AH loves there Big Bores but to be honest, I never understood the need for all the firepower unless you are hunting the BIG 5 everyday.

 

[Foxi]

is true what you're saying,
But you don't have any reserves.
In the end, it's always about the bad shots.
With which cartridge would I find a badly hit piece sooner(exept leg shots).
Only my ideas.

 

[enysse]

We have to practice Foxi, so the bad shots are minimized. I see too many people that flinch when they shoot their rifles. They have not practiced enough to know how to handle recoil and shot placement. It takes time and most people don't want to put the time into things today. I do agree with everyone that premium bullets make a world of difference when hunting. And if you shot a larger caliber gun well, it will always out perform the smaller caliber in a "dead right there moment".

 

[Kenneth McMillan]

How about the 7mm-08 Remington for Argali. I know that it drops less than the 308.

 

[grand veneur]

How about the 7mm-08 Remington for Argali. I know that it drops less than the 308.

far too small ,

...and we don't want to talk about eland hunting. This game must be shoot with the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum , also initially designed 1912 for this kind of hunting and not for shooting elephants.

It's not just to shoot accurate , no matter what distance , it's all about the working of a bullet , the terminal ballistic , and especially when it comes to Argalis , on very long distances.

A target made of cardboard can be hit with many cartridges and that on very long distances. When it comes to killing clean at this long distances , you need more than just an accurate cartridge. Cartridges like the 7mm-08 or 308 winchester are overstrained with all that. The minimum are cartridges like the 300 Win Mag , and that with heavy bullets from 180gr to 200gr.

Magnum cartridges caliber 338 with 250gr bullets are almost ideal for shooting heavy game at long range.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

" African Shot Placement" : Eland - minimum calibre 338Wiin, reccommended calibre 9,3x62 0r 375.

 

[sgt_zim]

The only thing that *might* make 308 useful for argali is the altitude you will be hunting.

At about 10,000 ft altitude, a 180 gr 308 fired at 2600 has more energy/velocity at 700 yards than a 300 win mag fired at sea level shooting the same bullet at MV 2900.

Nobody is a bigger .308 W fanatic than I am, and I'm good with mine to 1000 yards. That said, there's no way I'd take my 308 for eland or argali. For the latter, 7mm RM shooting 175s or 300 WM shooting 180s or 200s.

 

[sgt_zim]

I think you meant to say .300 Weatherby for Eland and 6.5 Creedmoor for sheep.

Gonna have to vigorously disagree with the idea that 6.5 CM is good choice for argali. It falls in the same category as .308W. There are, in my mind, 4 premiums from which to choose: 140 gr AF, 140 NP/NAB, and Woodleigh 160. And Woodleigh doesn't even publish a 6.5 CM load. With any of the 3 bullets at 140 gr and at about 10K feet altitude, you might be able to stretch a shot to 600, but 500 would be more realistic.

Would the 6.5 CM work? Sure. But if I'm spending $50-100K or more on a hunt, and going to ALL the trouble argali are to hunt (traveling to/from central Asia, packing out to where the sheep are, the high altitude and everything that goes along with it), no way do I take a marginal caliber like 6.5 CM.

 

[MarkCZ]

I still think a .308 is taking any walking human not wearing a bullet proof vest down for the count.

While I think there are better calibers for eland, I think a .308 is fine for sheep hunting. Yes, I'd rather take my .300 Win Mag but that's another story. People act like the .243, .270, 30-06 and .308 can't kill anything

My friend took an Eland last year with 7-08 it went 20 yards then fell dead. I killed mine with my 30-06 180 grain RWS bonded. I have killed big Oryx with my 243 win. and my 270 all dropped dead and my friend also took an Eland with 308 but I didn't see that. As with all these shots bullet placement is everything. On the same hunt I witnessed 4 shots to kill an Oryx with 375 H&H. Just my thoughts.
Markcz

 

[Red Leg]

The only thing that *might* make 308 useful for argali is the altitude you will be hunting.

At about 10,000 ft altitude, a 180 gr 308 fired at 2600 has more energy/velocity at 700 yards than a 300 win mag fired at sea level shooting the same bullet at MV 2900.

Nobody is a bigger .308 W fanatic than I am, and I'm good with mine to 1000 yards. That said, there's no way I'd take my 308 for eland or argali. For the latter, 7mm RM shooting 175s or 300 WM shooting 180s or 200s.

And just look what that .300 Win Mag is doing at that altitude.

 

[sgt_zim]

And just look what that .300 Win Mag is doing at that altitude.

Precisely. And 2900 is low end for 180 gr bullets. AF, Woodleigh PPSN, and Partition at 3000-3100 are all 900-1000 yd bullets at that altitude and for a big sheep like argali.

 

[Red Leg]

Precisely. And 2900 is low end for 180 gr bullets. AF, Woodleigh PPSN, and Partition at 3000-3100 are all 900-1000 yd bullets at that altitude and for a big sheep like argali.

I am really impressed with this new ELD-X Precision Hunter ammunition from Hornady. It is incredibly accurate in my .300 Win Mag. Would be my choice for a real long distance shot at game.

 

[sgt_zim]

I shoot 178 ELD-X (and VLDH 175) out to 1000 with my 308. Great bullet. Hadn't really thought about it too much for hunting, but even being non-bonded, at long range impact velocity I expect it'll hold together pretty well.

 

[grand veneur]

My friend took an Eland last year with 7-08 it went 20 yards then fell dead. I killed mine with my 30-06 180 grain RWS bonded. I have killed big Oryx with my 243 win. and my 270 all dropped dead and my friend also took an Eland with 308 but I didn't see that. As with all these shots bullet placement is everything. On the same hunt I witnessed 4 shots to kill an Oryx with 375 H&H. Just my thoughts.
Markcz

There are unfortunately also a lot of predominantly negative experiences with such cartridges on this heavy game. You should not believe that everything is always OK and if someone needs 4 shots with the 375 H&H can be a situation which one would not have mastered with the 30-06. If something goes wrong , the bigger cartridges will make all the difference.

It is the eternal discussion of small bore vs. big bore cartridges. Sometimes I wonder why there are big bore cartridges if the small bore cartridges are supposed working so well. Were well know hunters , who have praised cartridges like the 577NE or 500 jeffery for elephant hunting for example , only dreamers?

In such discussions , only Karamoja Bell is missing.

 

[bruce moulds]

what about the 340 wby for a 1 gun solution?
personally I would take a 7mmstw for the sheep and a 375 for the eland.
bruce.

 

[Foxi]

in Gobabis,Omaheke region, where I was about 8 weeks ago, the professional hunters shoot without hesitation the huge elands with the .308 Hornady Whitetail ammunition, until 200 m.
No right idea what I should think of it.
I would never do that.
And Argali ?
that does not work at all (for me).

 

[Mike Van Horn]

I am really impressed with this new ELD-X Precision Hunter ammunition from Hornady. It is incredibly accurate in my .300 Win Mag. Would be my choice for a real long distance shot at game.

I have tested the ELD-X extensively. In 30 cal the 212 grain. Testing has been in water and elk leg bone. Keep the muzzle velocity below 3000 fps and impact beyond 150 and it should be fine. 30 to 50 yard impact is not good, very explosive.
The 143 in 6.5-284 is about perfect, for an example