35 Whelen with 250 gr Norma Oryx

[Rick HOlbert]

Bob, and OP,

Curious about the Norma Oryx 250 grain loads. I’ve read it a good bullet.

Big 35 Whelen fan. I have 3, , two customs on Mauser 98 actions, and a Ruger #1.

Bob, I know you like CFE 223 powder, and results are very good.

My question is about load’s with VARGET.

I have several pounds of this, bought at the start of the pandemic,and not looking to add another powder to the library.

Do you have recommendations with VARGET, and 250 grain RN (Hornady)?

I have a lot of these bullets.
Lee Loading manual lists loads,just looking for best consistency and accuracy, not top velocity.
Always enjoy reading your posts.

I believe you'll like the Oryx bullet. My first choice is A-Frames but hard to come by right now. I'm going back to Namibia in 9 months and I'll be shooting a 338-06 with 230grn Oryx's. It's very good bullet.

 

[jbirdwell]

@bobnelson
I did finally find on xxl-reloading.com that they list the 250 gr ORYX using CFE223 as min 52.2 gr and max of 60.5 gr with velocity of 2549 out of a 23" barrel. I don't know how reliable that source is. Sounds like I can start at 60 and get with a max of 64 and get a little more speed out of my Whelen.

 

[GuttormG]

My boring,not maximum, just works load for 35whelen and 250grains bullets-58grains Vithavouri N-150

 

[sestoppelman]

I had my first Whelen made in the early 80's on a Sauer 98 action with Shilen barrel. I never scoped it and back in those days I was more than content with what would pass for standard loads today, no Nelson loads.
IIRC I had real good shooting with 4064 and R-15 with all weights. I think I was getting around 2600 with 225's and just over 2400 with 250's, such loads were usually considered top loads for the time.
Sadly I was never able to poke holes in anything with that rifle, but am certain it would do the job on anything less than Cape buffalo or elephant.

 

[samu]

@jbirdwell
One of the best powders for the 35 Whelen is Hogdon CFE223.
Using Speers on line data for the Whelen a max charge of 64gn will give you around 2,700fps and over 4,000fpe of muzzle energy.
Start with a load of 60gn and work up and you should be fine. Standard large rifle primers will be just fine.
If you like Google Speer reloading data and it will give you the data you want for the 250gn speer. You can use the same data for the nosler partition.
As usual these loads were safe in my rifle. Start lower and work up.
If you need anymore info on loading the Whelen there's heaps on this forum, just search 35 Whelen or you cam PM me.
Bob

64gr of CFE223 with 250gr bullet simulated in Gordons Reloading Tool gives bit over 70000 psi p_max when max allowed for 35W is 58000 psi. Why not just use a bigger cartridge if you need that much?

 

[cajunchefray]

@bobnelson
I did finally find on xxl-reloading.com that they list the 250 gr ORYX using CFE223 as min 52.2 gr and max of 60.5 gr with velocity of 2549 out of a 23" barrel. I don't know how reliable that source is. Sounds like I can start at 60 and get with a max of 64 and get a little more speed out of my Whelen.

Not sure of that source, unfamiliar with it.

I would Not start at 60 grains.

As in All reloading, start 10% below max, slowly work up.
If you have pressure signs, sticky bolt, cratered primers, the load is too Hot already.
Ask me how I know.

Back down powder and work back up Slowly.
Each rifle is different.
I don’t try to achieve top end velocity for a cartridge, just boringly consistent accuracy.

If I want more velocity, I go .375 H&H.

Safe Shooting,
Cajunchef

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

64gr of CFE223 with 250gr bullet simulated in Gordons Reloading Tool gives bit over 70000 psi p_max when max allowed for 35W is 58000 psi. Why not just use a bigger cartridge if you need that much?

@samu
If you are correct you need to contact speer and notify them.
It's the load they show on thier reloading sight.

I have used their load in my whelen and experienced NO signs of excessive pressure with easy bolt lift and minimal case head expansion. When developing the load I started at the min and worked up to the max. I used the same case for this development and even after 5 reloads have experienced no loosening of primer pockets. This is with Remington brass.
If the load was UNSAFE I don't think soeer would publish it as they would be liable to all sorts of law suits.
Bib

 

[samu]

@samu
If you are correct you need to contact speer and notify them.
It's the load they show on thier reloading sight.
View attachment 552285
I have used their load in my whelen and experienced NO signs of excessive pressure with easy bolt lift and minimal case head expansion. When developing the load I started at the min and worked up to the max. I used the same case for this development and even after 5 reloads have experienced no loosening of primer pockets. This is with Remington brass.
If the load was UNSAFE I don't think soeer would publish it as they would be liable to all sorts of law suits.
Bib

Seems that the problem is the CFE 223 powder profile on GRT afterall. I plugged in load data for 308w from Hodgdon chart with 150gr bullet and the simulation shows similarly excessive pressure. Hodgdon provides their measured pressures to compare so it's quite safe to say false alarm. Sadly it's not possible to contact Gordon about it as he passed away last year and continuation of the development seems to remain uncertain.

Nevertheless the velocities you get out of that 35w are impressive. Now the 9,3x62 I have is a 20" but I'd have to go to 286gr bullet to even be able to cross 5000J at muzzle. Tempting, but the off the shelf Sako Blade ammo is also killing moose awfully well.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Seems that the problem is the CFE 223 powder profile on GRT afterall. I plugged in load data for 308w from Hodgdon chart with 150gr bullet and the simulation shows similarly excessive pressure. Hodgdon provides their measured pressures to compare so it's quite safe to say false alarm. Sadly it's not possible to contact Gordon about it as he passed away last year and continuation of the development seems to remain uncertain.

Nevertheless the velocities you get out of that 35w are impressive. Now the 9,3x62 I have is a 20" but I'd have to go to 286gr bullet to even be able to cross 5000J at muzzle. Tempting, but the off the shelf Sako Blade ammo is also killing moose awfully well.

@samu
I also load CFE223 in my son's 308.
50gn behind a 150gn accubonds with a coal od 2.8 inches gives me just over 2,900fps in a 22 in barrel.
Once again this load proved safe in my rifle but work up from a few grains below.
Bob

 

[DG870]

I have a 35 Whelen built on an FN Mauser with a 25” Douglas barrel. I was using 53 grains of Varget and 250gr Hornady bullets. I never chronographed this load but assumed it was 2400 to 2450fps. I shot a few pigs with this within 150 yards as a medium range thumper. It worked well and I would probably still be using this load if it hadn’t been for Bob’s posts on this forum.

I finally found some Cfe223 and used the Speer reloading data and worked up to 62 grains (64 is max) with the Hornady 250s. Got to chronograph them this week and got a 10 shot average of 2785fps with groups running just under an inch. No excess pressure signs on the fired brass (Remington 30-06 brass necked up). I’ll do some more testing but think I’ll stick to this load. I can probably get a little more velocity but I’d rather have easy extraction and lower pressures than another 75 fps. I’m not sure how temperature sensitive Cfe223 is but it was 90 degrees when I was shooting. I’ll chronograph more this fall when it cools off. I’d also like to try this load using magnum primers but my supply is running low so I’ll save those for my other rifles. Still a work in progress.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have a 35 Whelen built on an FN Mauser with a 25” Douglas barrel. I was using 53 grains of Varget and 250gr Hornady bullets. I never chronographed this load but assumed it was 2400 to 2450fps. I shot a few pigs with this within 150 yards as a medium range thumper. It worked well and I would probably still be using this load if it hadn’t been for Bob’s posts on this forum.

I finally found some Cfe223 and used the Speer reloading data and worked up to 62 grains (64 is max) with the Hornady 250s. Got to chronograph them this week and got a 10 shot average of 2785fps with groups running just under an inch. No excess pressure signs on the fired brass (Remington 30-06 brass necked up). I’ll do some more testing but think I’ll stick to this load. I can probably get a little more velocity but I’d rather have easy extraction and lower pressures than another 75 fps. I’m not sure how temperature sensitive Cfe223 is but it was 90 degrees when I was shooting. I’ll chronograph more this fall when it cools off. I’d also like to try this load using magnum primers but my supply is running low so I’ll save those for my other rifles. Still a work in progress.

@DG870
If you use magnum primers you will have to start your load development again. They are a much hotter primer and MAY increase your pressures.
I used standard Remington 91/2 primers and have had no issues from minus 5 to 42 degrees celcieus.
Good to hear the 250s work well. You now have a LING range thumper with that load. You are producing over 4,000fpe of muzzle energy and still have around 2,000fpe at 400yrds. CFE223 certainly turns the Whelen into an entirely different beast and still with very manageable recoil.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@bobnelson
I did finally find on xxl-reloading.com that they list the 250 gr ORYX using CFE223 as min 52.2 gr and max of 60.5 gr with velocity of 2549 out of a 23" barrel. I don't know how reliable that source is. Sounds like I can start at 60 and get with a max of 64 and get a little more speed out of my Whelen.

@jbirdwell
ALL RIFLES are a law unto themselves. Always start low and work up to be safe.
With the old Remington 250gr round nose in MY rifle I found I had to go up a little bit to achieve the same velocity. The OLD Hornady have a smaller bearing surface compared to later production and this can be clearly seen.
The Whelen has an unusually long leade compared to some other cartridges. Depending on magazine lenght the normal load is 3.34 inch coal. Some magazines will allow this some won't.
The magazine on my Stevens 200 aka Savage 110 is unusually long at almost 3.6 inches so I can load long bullets like the 225gn accubond to 3.4 inches coal.
When you load the Whelen with the new load data you will really notice the difference.
Bob

 

[jbirdwell]

@jbirdwell
ALL RIFLES are a law unto themselves. Always start low and work up to be safe.
With the old Remington 250gr round nose in MY rifle I found I had to go up a little bit to achieve the same velocity. The OLD Hornady have a smaller bearing surface compared to later production and this can be clearly seen.
The Whelen has an unusually long leade compared to some other cartridges. Depending on magazine lenght the normal load is 3.34 inch coal. Some magazines will allow this some won't.
The magazine on my Stevens 200 aka Savage 110 is unusually long at almost 3.6 inches so I can load long bullets like the 225gn accubond to 3.4 inches coal.
When you load the Whelen with the new load data you will really notice the difference.
Bob

Thanks-good information

 

[jwp475]

I loaded 64 grains of CFE223 behind the 250 Partition with Federal 215 primers and had the load pressure tested and it only produced a max pressure of 48,500 PSI

 

[zephyr]

Thanks for the Speer/CFE223 data... Could not find it online.....
No one has mentioned COAL With the aforementioned sub M.O.A. groups are folks loading to SAMMI COAL or are you a set distance from the lands??

 

[sgt_zim]

My one and only gripe about the otherwise excellent Oryx bullet is its notoriously low ballistic coefficient. Fortunately, they're pretty soft, so you can expect decent expansion even down at 1800 fps impact velocity.

285 Oryx is my standard hunting load for my 9.3x62

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My one and only gripe about the otherwise excellent Oryx bullet is its notoriously low ballistic coefficient. Fortunately, they're pretty soft, so you can expect decent expansion even down at 1800 fps impact velocity.

285 Oryx is my standard hunting load for my 9.3x62

@sgt_zim
If you want some real power out if your 9.3x62 load up som 325gn oryx at 2,200fps and go ream out some buffalo. May not be a stopping load but will ream them out with a BIG HOLE.
Bob

 

[sgt_zim]

@sgt_zim
If you want some real power out if your 9.3x62 load up som 325gn oryx at 2,200fps and go ream out some buffalo. May not be a stopping load but will ream them out with a BIG HOLE.
Bob

I was going to order some 320 gr Woodleighs when they're back up and running. But good Lord I have more different loads for my 9.3 than any other rifle I have. I need to start doing LD for my son's 9.3, and for my 404J at some point.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was going to order some 320 gr Woodleighs when they're back up and running. But good Lord I have more different loads for my 9.3 than any other rifle I have. I need to start doing LD for my son's 9.3, and for my 404J at some point.

@sgt_zim
Sounds like me and the Whelen. It has been great fun getting the old girl to sing how it was meant to. A great learning curve for a reloader.
Bob

 

[pilar]

Very interesting thread, I am seriously considering a 35whelen for next year in Namibia , my hunting partner thinks I am crazy, but research is looking good on a 35 for my use ( PG up to eland) but longer shots 250-300 yards
wondering if a single shot rifle will be a handicap?
any hints on best hand load for the longer range or even factory if the componets aren’t available