458 Lott upgrades

[Voodooracer]

Hi everyone, I think in February I am going to send off my cz 550 in 458 Lott off to the folks at American hunting rifles to do their number 2 upgrade. I think I will order their qd holographic sight base as well. I will ask about having them cut the barrel back to about 23 inches, what are your opinions on this barrel length? And also what holographic sight would you guys recommend to use in conjunction with their express sights? Any info and recommendations would be greatly appreciated! I want to get the rifle customized to me a little bit better and ready for future safaris.
Thanks!
Voodoo

 

[TokkieM]

Voodoo their number 2 option is pretty good I had my Lott barrel cut down to 23" and found it easy to handle and fast to point, balanced out okay too. All the above is just cosmetic as I can understand, except maybe for the bolt handle and safety that adds some function above the standard rifle. I would honestly ask them to have a look at the feeding, swap out the extractor collar to a Mauser one (polish under the collar first) check the extractor tension while they are at it. You may have to open the left rail and polish (reshape) the ramp, maybe smooth the action out a bit. I have not come across a CZ in Lott from factory I could not get to jam yet, so asking them to check and test would be at the top of my " to do list". You will have one sweet rifle when you are done with those upgrades

 

[Voodooracer]

That is excellent advice! My Lott was a little rough to feed at first but it has smoothed up considerably with use. I will definitely have them look at those areas and address it if needed. I know they do a polish and action job on them to begin with but I will mention it. The standard barrel is just a bit too long and unwieldy for me personally. Granted I'm a large framed guy at 6 foot 3 and 220 pounds but I'd prefer it a bit shorter.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Can't comment on the sight, but the shorter barrel I think is a great idea for DG in close quarters. I've never read anything that wasn't positive concerning AHR.

 

[Voodooracer]

Thanks! That's the general consensus I've been getting about ahr, I'm looking forward to having them do the work for me. The sight isn't a must but I'd like to have one for lower light situations. Ideally I'd love to have them build me one of their DGR's in 505 gibbs or 500 Jeffrey in the future but we shall see haha

 

[PaulT]

Hi Voodoo, following is my opinion only (you know what they say about opinions !).

Over the past 26 years I have had a total of 3 different .458 Lotts.

# 1;
The first was a Win mod 70 with a 20" tube that I used extensively on buffalo and feral Oxen for a number of years and also took that rifle to Zimbabwe where I used it successfully on Cape buff and carried it for untold miles chasing (and being chased by !) Elephant and absolutely LOVED that set-up.

Unfortunately, after the use and abuse of years in the Tropics and untold hundreds (maybe thousands) of rounds, this particular gun developed traits of wear that could no longer be ignored in a rifle being used for back-up and with the repair costs exceeding the total value of the gun itself, I made the fateful decision to trade "up" in to a new gun.... as the Cz 550's had just then come on to the market and I was swayed.
Big regret.
This original Lott was my favourite by a country mile.

Exceptional balance, fast handling in tight spots, able to swing and point like a shot-gun and very little appreciable loss on velocity. Positives far outweighing any negatives.

# 2;
The second was a Cz 550 which from memory came with a full 25" tube.

The year I bought it I did my own mods (no AHR on this side of the pond ) by stripping the stock and re-shaping it, taking over a pound in weight off the gun and thinning it down dramatically, making it far more comfortable to handle and shoot.

I also had my gunsmith fix the feeding issues, exchange the trigger, front and rear sights and install a proper kick pad on it and, again fatefully decided AGAINTS lopping the barrel down, leaving it the original length.

When this rifle was finished, the stock was MUCH more comfortable to hold and handle, the trigger was a pleasure to operate, the sights were actually visible... BUT the barrel length bugged the crapper out of me.

I carried and used the gun for one season then sold it on to a mate of mine who is currently still using this very same rifle as his main back-up gun on his guided buffalo hunts and even he is constantly fighting the decision to lop the barrel or not.

# 3;
My current Lott is a custom built Win mod 70 control feed with a 22" barrel, total weight at 8.5lbs and, although this rifle is extremely comfortable to carry and shoot, I really regret going with a 22" and not a 20".
I fully intend keeping this current Lott as it is extremely well put together with quality components and have not ruled out lopping it at some stage down the track. This would mean sacrificing the front ramp which of-course could easily be replaced.

To my mind, the length of barrel should be directly proportional to the profile of it (the barrel), as this directly effects the final balance of the rifle, and that will dictate how that rifle "feels" during use,
dependant on the use you have intended for it.

If you get the profile versus length correct there is no practical, nor logical, reason to exceed 22" on any Lott and if you are particularly fond of fast handling and naturally pointing rifles then do some research on barrel profiles of the particular barrel on your gun and consider 20".

I can highly recommend it.

Congrats on your decision on having your Lott given the treatment by AHR, I've had several buddies do the same and to a man they have ALL been extremely satisfied with the results.
A far cry from the original factory product from Cz.

Gotta LOVE the Lott; it is, in my mind, the very best of the available factory big bores in a bolt gun

Best of luck,
Paul.

 

[Voodooracer]

Wow thank you Paul, that was an excellent write up! I really appreciate you sharing your first hand experiences with your lott's! I agree as well, it is a wonderful and versatile big bore cartridge! I was curious how sensitive the Lott cartridge is to losing barrel length. I'm sure a few inches less won't matter to much to a charging Cape buffalo haha. The stock fits me fairly well, I may have a custom stock made for it later on down the road but I think having the barrel shortened will give it a much better feel for me. I may ask them to upgrade the recoil pad some too, the factory one is more or less just there for show haha.

 

[PaulT]

You are very welcome Voodoo.

One important omission I made in my original post, that is pertinent to the Lott, and ANY cartridge/rifle combo to be employed on thick skinned game (and to my mind FAR more important than either) is the projectiles you load with.

Keep in mind that many/most projectiles in .458 cal are/were designed for the Win mag version.
If you load your Lott up to reasonable working pressures you will comfortably end up with muzzle velocities exceeding the 2250fps mark which is where I found most commonly available projectiles coming apart on those close, 20 - 50yds, shots.

Premium projectiles such as C.E.B Safari Raptors and Northforks loaded to Lott capability are DEVASTATING !

Unfortunately, all of my loading has been done with the A.D.I range of Australian powders which I would not substitute for your American powders, but should you need any loading info let me know via p.m as I can put you in touch with a gentleman who has done EXTENSIVE loading and pressure testing with U.S powders.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[Voodooracer]

That is very generous of you, thank you! I'm piecing together the components I need to reload for it as we speak, I will definitely pm you when I get up and running!

 

[Velo Dog]

My Lott is a 22" barreled one that was custom made for me.
As far as a DG bolt action, it is the proper length for me (I am about 6 feet tall).
Fast up close and yet enough sight radius to make accurate shooting not difficult.
The barrel is either Krieger or Lothar-Walther, I have forgotten which but it was never a .458 Winchester, cut out to the Lott version, it was originally chambered as a Lott.
It has sleeved rear base mounted express sights and Recknagel front, with folding hood (more or less the copy of some typical Pre-War British front sights).
It has a sling stud banded to the barrel, ahead of the forend.
The action is a slicked up CZ 550 Magnum.
I had the bolt handle replaced with a larger one, and a Model 70 type safety installed.
The stock is the original CZ Bavarian shaped one but 3 crossbolts installed and glass bedded against recoil.
I had it built a bit heavy but that is because I shoot it way more than I carry it.
If I was a PH I would definitely want a lighter rifle but as a client, this rifle may or may not make it to Africa and maybe not (I'm going back but, I have other large bore rifles as well).

 

[Voodooracer]

I definitely prefer the extra power of the Lott over the wm, and it's nice to be able to use the 458wm in a pinch. That's great! The weight doesn't bother me too much but it will be nice to have it lightened up slightly

 

[zephyr]

PaulT
Happy Holidays
Your ADI powders are our Hogdons powders.

 

[zephyr]

I took a new Factory Win Mod 70 in 458wm and had the barrel re-chambered to 458 Lott. lengthened the stock to 14 1/2" while I was working with the stock took a file to the cheek piece (I shoot left handed) and re-finished the wood.
I Did the same process to a new 375 H&H but re-barreled it to 400H&&H...
Had the opportunity in the process to shorten the barrels but kept them the same, 24"s.
Like the look and the balance...
By the way the barrels on my Gibb's pictured in my avitar or 28"s ..Perhaps their is some what of a bias
Best to all in the new year...

 

[PaulT]

"PaulT
Happy Holidays
Your ADI powders are our Hogdons powders.", quote by Zephyr.

Thanks Zephyr, straight back at you, my return best wishes to you and your family for the holiday season.

Of-course you are correct about the powders, even so, I have been taught NOT to exchange loads with powders of similar, but not equal, burning rates.
It has also been shown to me that powder of the same burning rate from a different production batch can vary, with some in particular (e.g R15) being potentially quite variable between lots.
A good reason to always start 10% low and work your way up.

These days, I buy, or accumulate over time, reasonable quantities of these succeptable powders and blend them in order to "stabilize" them

Works especially well particularly with the previously mentioned R15 which I use a lot of my in big bores

Headed to the U.S with my wife in the morning for our annual trip, would LOVE to stick around and "chew" it out over barrel lengths , but I must leave as I have other "priorities" in mind at the moment

Cheers to all here

Paul.

 

[PaulT]

On a final note, my apologies to Voodoo for the diversion in his thread, but keep in mind my month in the U.S includes a week long visit at the MDM "compound" of terminal bullet performance where we will be burning some serious powder, flinging thumb sized slugs down the indoor range, pressure testing and soaking up some of the best Southern made "pie" known to mankind.

It is here I will get all the "good-oil" on the Lott for Voodoo in order to make it up for hi-jacking this thread

 

[zephyr]

I'll hijack one more time.
Paul where else will you be ????
I should be at the SCI show most of the week
If you find yourself any where near the state of Vermont let me know !!
I can see now where you get your preference for shorter barrels by the company you keep I gotta think that some of Michael's relatives most have belonged to the Lolly Pop Guild
Should be a great experience he is a wealth of information and as a CEB fan he has helped me out considerably
Best to all on the new year

 

[PaulT]

Zephyr,
we are spending a few days in Santa Monica, just to recover from the initial 15hr bus ride over, then we go on to Vegas for a week and then a week with Mike and the family at the "compound" before we go on to the convention in Dallas.

We are very close to the McCourrys, having spent A LOT of time together hunting buffalo in Australia since 2009, way back when I was in the business, and have become firm friends.
We have a lot of common interests, including short barrels, hard hitting rifles and quality hunting projectiles.

Mike has helped a lot of people out in the past, and has probably forgotten more about reloading than the rest of us will learn in a lifetime.
Unfortunately, for the general population, several bad experiences with key board jockies has seen him withdraw from the forums arena and he now only interacts with those he knows personally.

Cheers, and again aopologies to Voodoo for the diversion.

PaulT

 

[spike.t]

Hi everyone, I think in February I am going to send off my cz 550 in 458 Lott off to the folks at American hunting rifles to do their number 2 upgrade. I think I will order their qd holographic sight base as well. I will ask about having them cut the barrel back to about 23 inches, what are your opinions on this barrel length? And also what holographic sight would you guys recommend to use in conjunction with their express sights? Any info and recommendations would be greatly appreciated! I want to get the rifle customized to me a little bit better and ready for future safaris.
Thanks!
Voodoo

Voodooracer i had a look at that american hunting rifles site and found this stunning little number for sale http://americanhuntingrifles.com/?page_id=66 thanks for putting me into depression !!

 

[Velo Dog]

My Lott is a 22" barreled one that was custom made for me.
As far as a DG bolt action, it is the proper length for me (I am about 6 feet tall).
Fast up close and yet enough sight radius to make accurate shooting not difficult.
The barrel is either Krieger or Lothar-Walther, I have forgotten which but it was never a .458 Winchester, cut out to the Lott version, it was originally chambered as a Lott.
It has sleeved rear base mounted express sights and Recknagel front, with folding hood (more or less the copy of some typical Pre-War British front sights).
It has a sling stud banded to the barrel, ahead of the forend.
The action is a slicked up CZ 550 Magnum.
I had the bolt handle replaced with a larger one, and a Model 70 type safety installed.
The stock is the original CZ Bavarian shaped one but 3 crossbolts installed and glass bedded against recoil.
I had it built a bit heavy but that is because I shoot it way more than I carry it.
If I was a PH I would definitely want a lighter rifle but as a client, this rifle may or may not make it to Africa and maybe not (I'm going back but, I have other large bore rifles as well).

Typo Alert / Repair:
My Lott is actually barreled at 23" and not 22 (my typo error).

Also, I opened the web site that Mr. Spike.T provided here and totally agree that their .404 shown is about perfecto.
A quarter inch to three eighths inch longer bolt handle would be to my liking but even as it sets now, I probably would not bother with such and I would probably just live happily ever after with it like they have it.
The rifle shown there is my idea of what a DG repeater should be.
Anyone who does not agree with me on this has no eyes dammit, so there !

After having fired an old original .404 Jeffery on the rifle range here, I have sworn a solemn promise to The Hunting Gods that, one day I will have a proper Mauser in .404 Jeffery (is there any other .404 ? - not in my opinion).
Twice I have made offers on .404's but no seller has been negotiable so, for now I have to make do with the .416 Rigby as my .40 repeater - Oh, poor pitiful mee.

The most dangerous animal walks upright on its hind legs - me.

 

[Voodooracer]

No worries about the diversion, I appreciate the candor haha! Ahh Spike.t that is very tempting!!! I knew I should not have clicked on the link haha!