460 Weatherby opinions?

[colorado]

Assuming the following:

11 lb rifle 500 Jeffery 570g bullet at 2300 fps, 505 Gibbs 600g bullet at 2150 fps, 460 Weatherby 500g bullet at 2600 fps

500 Jeffery 570g bullet at 2300 fps
recoil (ft lbs) 96.7
recoil velocity 23.8
Taylor KO 95.5

505 Gibbs 600g bullet at 2150 fps
recoil (ft lbs) 99.5
recoil velocity 24.1
Taylor KO 93.1

460 Weatherby 500g bullet at 2600 fps
recoil (ft lbs) 107.3
recoil velocity 25.05
Taylor KO 85.1

This is actual recoil and recoil velocity felt is a different matter (stock fit, design, etc.)

I own two rifles in Weatherby calibers, a Mark V in 270 Weatherby Magnum and a Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby Magnum so I'm not a Weatherby hater. I think the 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs give you more knockdown power (primarily due to bullet diameter and weight) with less recoil.

 

[HankBuck]

I know they're pretty far apart but I've been wanting a 416 Rigby for years for absolutely no reason and here more recently the 460 just keeps making me look. I've got a 375 on its way to me now so I don't NEED either one for the Buff I'll one day hunt but I've always been fascinated with the big bore mean rifles. I know the 460 is nowhere near as popular as the 416 but is it really that bad? I see some videos where guys are almost in tears but then several saying "it's not as bad as expected" after the shot. So from owners or those of you with actual experience; is it a good useful round with a bad rep or is it just an overpowered monster useful only for elephant and t-rex?

Never fired a .460 but just reading the ballistics on it made me Flinch and now just reading your post - my shoulder is hurting!!

 

[Marc Ret]

I haven't been able to find the felt recoil of the 505Gibbs or 500 Jeffery on the recoil tables. Do you know how they compare to the 460 WB?

A recoil calculator will give you much more accurate numbers in comparison to the online recoil tables. The tables are convenient but only provide a very general idea of recoil produced by a specific cartridge.

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

 

[Axle2010]

You boys are awesome thanks for all the info and informed opinions! I used to be on Archerytalk and you couldn't post 3 comments there without starting an argument. I think what I need is a nice 416 Rigby first then a 460 somewhere around next year. Any suggestions on an AFFORDABLE crf platform since the Mark V seems to be a push feed? I can justify the cartridge but not a custom rifle for a round I won't use much around home.

 

[PerH]

You boys are awesome thanks for all the info and informed opinions! I used to be on Archerytalk and you couldn't post 3 comments there without starting an argument. I think what I need is a nice 416 Rigby first then a 460 somewhere around next year. Any suggestions on an AFFORDABLE crf platform since the Mark V seems to be a push feed? I can justify the cartridge but not a custom rifle for a round I won't use much around home.

Brno 602 or Cz550 .458 rebored and reworked .

 

[Northern Shooter]

You boys are awesome thanks for all the info and informed opinions! I used to be on Archerytalk and you couldn't post 3 comments there without starting an argument. I think what I need is a nice 416 Rigby first then a 460 somewhere around next year. Any suggestions on an AFFORDABLE crf platform since the Mark V seems to be a push feed? I can justify the cartridge but not a custom rifle for a round I won't use much around home.

If you're buying new the Winchester Model 70 is just about the most affordable CRF platform out there. You won't be able to get one in 416 Rigby although both 416 Remington and 458 WinMag are available.

You may want to consider one of those.

 

[IvW]

There is a beautiful 450 Rigby on a proper CRF action for sale on here as well as a 505 Gibbs rather buy one of those be relieved of the issue that come with a 460 WM especially if it is on a W action......unless you dont want to hunt dg.....just my 2c

 

[tarbe]

Depending upon your intended use, don't forget to consider bullet availability.

In .458 you can buy jacketed/mono-metal bullets from 250gr to 600gr and they are actually pretty widely available.

No other caliber above .375 gives as many options.

 

[grand veneur]

You boys are awesome thanks for all the info and informed opinions! I used to be on Archerytalk and you couldn't post 3 comments there without starting an argument. I think what I need is a nice 416 Rigby first then a 460 somewhere around next year. Any suggestions on an AFFORDABLE crf platform since the Mark V seems to be a push feed? I can justify the cartridge but not a custom rifle for a round I won't use much around home.

I think you mean a rifle caliber 460 WBY-Magnum.

I would never have bought the original Weatherby rifle of this caliber either. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are no serial rifles of caliber 460 WBY-Magnum. My weapon is also a custom rifle built in 1974 on the basis of a Brevex Magnum action. Actually, I want to sell it because it hardly serves me at the moment. There are still some weapons for big game hunting in my gun safe.

At the moment it looks like this on the picture, with a new stock that it received 4 years ago. Since then it was only once more in Africa. That but no interested party has false hopes, I would warn in advance that it is extremely difficult for a private person to export a rifle outside of the European Union, especially to the United States.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I think what I need is a nice 416 Rigby first then a 460 somewhere around next year. Any suggestions on an AFFORDABLE crf platform since the Mark V seems to be a push feed?

Yes, do what @IvW recommends above, buy a 416 Rigby in a CZ 550 and follow it up with the same action in 450 Rigby.

There is a beautiful 450 Rigby on a proper CRF action for sale on here as well as a 505 Gibbs rather buy one of those be relieved of the issue that come with a 460 WM especially if it is on a W action......unless you dont want to hunt dg.....just my 2c

If you need more energy on target that the 450 Rigby provides*, stalk up a little closer.
Further, recoil is not conducive to accuracy. A full boogie 460 WM may be a 300 yard cartridge in regards to trajectory and energy on target. The problem with very high recoil is maintaining a consistent opposition to recoil (follow through), especially in field conditions.
*450 Rigby with 500 gr bullet at 2450 FPS MV, produces 6665 ft pounds (9037 joules) of energy.

I was advised long ago, for long range Africa shooting, say 300 yards, shoot a rifle that you are accurate with in a prone position. I can thread a needle with my .375 H&H from the prone position. I have never tried it with a .416 but I should. I have however practiced shooting from a very stable sitting position with my Heym 88B in .458 Win with 500 grain bullets. Shooting the 458 in sitting position doesn't scare me but it sure as heck gets my attention!

Then there is the pesky problem of all that brush and bush in Africa between you and the target. Okay, stand up and use the sticks! That is probably not as stable as prone or sitting for long range, especially with high recoiling rifles.

And as @tarbe stated above

Depending upon your intended use, don't forget to consider bullet availability.

In .458 you can buy jacketed/mono-metal bullets from 250gr to 600gr and they are actually pretty widely available.

No other caliber above .375 gives as many option

 

[IvW]

Lets see thisbis often an Land Cruiser vs Land Rover or Ford vs Chev tyoe of argument.....whatever you own is the best....

Out of so many dg professiinal hunters we can scratch out 2 names who use them....

Lets check some facts....

Case capacity

460WM 141.1 gr h20
500 Jeff 158gr h20
505 Gibbs 178gr h20

Bear in mind the Gibbs has a massive case as it was designed for cordite...

Pressure

460WM 65000psi 4500 bars
500 Jeff 46412 psi 3200 bars
505 Gibbs 39160 psi 2700 bars

Velocity
460WM 500gr 2600fps 7504 ft.lbs
500Jeff 600gr 2500fps 8117 ft.lbs
505 Gibbs 600gr 2100fps 5877 ft.lbs

You truely do not need anything over 2400fps with the right bullet with 2300 fps as the sweet spot....

The argument of downloading holds no water as the other 2 can be uploaded...

You want a 458? Buy a 458 Lott or a 450 Rigby....

 

[tarbe]

My comments about the big .458 cartridges based on the 416 Rigby always assume a fellow handloads. If a non-handloader, I would not consider the Weatherby as I think even still today, it is loaded hotter than optimal.

Now, if we are talking rifles and DG, I think pretty much all of us would agree that a CF action and a non-California stock would be preferred over the Weatherby pattern. And losing the brake on the Weatherby is always a good thing!

For a handloader, there is no practical difference between the Dakota, Rigby and Weatherby 45 cal cartridges. Except dies and factory brass tend to be easier to get for the Weatherby. At least here in the states. I had a really hard time sourcing 450 Dakota brass 4 years ago. Finally found a guy who had a pile and bought them all.

With Norma loading the Rigby, I would hope the situation with that chambering would be better. And I guess a guy could always form Dakota or Rigby from 416 brass.

But talking strictly cartridges here, I see no practical loading differences between the three and think any one of them can be loaded to perform just like the others, assuming the same freebore and barrel lengths.

 

[grand veneur]

My last box of original Weatherby ammunition from the sixties, ammo that I initially used.

I also don't know what Weatherby was thinking when loading 1958 the cartridge 460 WBY-Magnum to this level and on top of that, supplied the cartridge in a rifle with a MC stock and often without open sights, only equipped with a scope at the time with short eye relief. That was a fatal error from which this cartridge unfortunately continues to suffer.

 

[tarbe]

My last box of original Weatherby ammunition from the sixties, ammo that I initially used.

I also don't know what Weatherby was thinking when loading 1958 the cartridge 460 WBY-Magnum to this level and on top of that, supplied the cartridge in a rifle with a MC stock and often without open sights, only equipped with a scope at the time with short eye relief. That was a fatal error from which this cartridge unfortunately continues to suffer.

View attachment 545156

Stupid marketing hype and ego-inflation!

And considering the quality of the bullets in the day, possibly dangerous!

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I bet if someone were firing a premium bullet out of this rifle at 2300-2400 fps they wouldn’t garner nearly as much criticism

.460 Weatherby by JJ Perodeau | MNR Custom

Trained in the Old World, JJ Perodeau is known as one of the top craftsman and gunmakers around today. This .460 Weatherby built on a Granite Mountain Arms action exemplifies the top quality work Mr. Perodeau is renowned for.

www.mnrcustom.com

 

[Axle2010]

I bet if someone were firing a premium bullet out of this rifle at 2300-2400 fps they wouldn’t garner nearly as much criticism

.460 Weatherby by JJ Perodeau | MNR Custom

Trained in the Old World, JJ Perodeau is known as one of the top craftsman and gunmakers around today. This .460 Weatherby built on a Granite Mountain Arms action exemplifies the top quality work Mr. Perodeau is renowned for.

www.mnrcustom.com

Man that's purty!! Wish that was in my budget. Probably the closest I'll get to a "custom" rifle is the BRNO or CZ rechambered with a nice stick. Honestly with the rifle limitations I'm now aware of it looks like I may have to stick with the Rigby or Jeffrey.

 

[Axle2010]

What do yall think of the Sako Brown Bear? It comes in 416 Rigby at least. I've heard some say it's not a true crf but idk what isn't "true" about it. I know I love my Tikkas (cheap Sakos) but obviously they're in smaller calibers

 

[Inline6]

Or get an R8 and you can get a 375h&h, 458Lott, and 500JEFF all on one platform. Just a thought, if we are already stirring the pot...

 

[Axle2010]

Idk, they're nice but I'm not a huge fan of the Blasers

 

[Inline6]

They are not for everyone, when/if you shoot one. You will understand why so many people like them.