6.5x55mm for Plains Game?

[BARTFRNCS]

I know that may be true but advances in case design bullets and propelants have really made some older carts not as effective. There is no constant in life except change. I never once mentioned the word magnum.

 

[sestoppelman]

I know that may be true but advances in case design bullets and propelants have really made some older carts not as effective. There is no constant in life except change. I never once mentioned the word magnum.

OK now this is just plain silly. How exactly do advancements in technology make "older carts not as effective"? If anything the opposite is true, no question about it. Better powders and bullets make the older rounds better! Yes some newer rounds are better than the old, but new doesnt make old less than what it was. They are just as effective as before or more so.

 

[BARTFRNCS]

I have 6 reloading manuals beside me within reach you cant push a .308 180 gr bullet much faster than 2700fps out of a 30 06.even with the recent advancements in primer powder brass and bullets this hasnt changed for 100years. Now youll say but its a proven killer I agree. I say you can get more velocity kinetic energy and sectional density from newer rounds. But I digress this thread is about whether or not to use a 6.5x55 for PG for my money its not enough gun, although it looks really good on paper.

 

[sestoppelman]

You can get more velocity, and energy from larger more capacious rounds, not neccessarily newer rounds. As to sectional density or ballistic coefficient etc., those have nothing whatever to do with a specific cartridge design other than the velocity it imparts to the projectile. The 6.5 Swede is a favorite of the Norwegians and Swedes for moose hunting. Are African plains animals of similar size tougher than elk and moose? answer; no.

 

[BARTFRNCS]

I would like to say I enjoy a good debate, hope you dont think I'm being antagonistic I dont want this to turn ugly. yes new bullets have dif sec density call Berger(they make awesome bullets)Another thing the 300 RUM was desined to shoot 220gr 30 cal bullets at180 gr 300win mag velocity and yes I own one my chronoghaph isnt lieing.So much for carts not being designed for a bullet. If you had a better understanding of internal ballistics the case isnt just a pressure vessel.It performs many diferant functions. I seriously doubt all norwiegians and swedes use 6.5x55s there have been alot of advancements since 1896

 

[Norwegianwoods]

You are totally correct BARTFRNCS. Not all Norwegians and Swedes use 6.5x55.
But very many do. There are different reasons for why they choose to use a 6.5x55.
But there is no doubt at all that it is a very efficient cartridge and much better than most Americans give it credit for.

I think a main reason for this is that most American factory made 6.5x55 ammo is very anemic and often loaded with crap bullets too.

With good bullets is there very little practical difference between 6.5x55, 270win, 308win and 30-06 in my experience. Also with marginal hits.
It is only when a 9.3x62 or larger has been used that I have seen a clear improvement in performance on game.
And there is no doubt that a good hit from a high quality .264 bullets is much better than a marginal hit from a 9.3.
I would guess that 95% of all hunters shoot better with 6.5x55 than with a 9.3x62 or larger.

The premium bullets have made the 6.5x55 much better in my opinion.
Before you needed to use heavier bullets(155-160grain) to be total sure about the result when shooting a Moose.
Today you can go as low as 120 grain with the best premium bullets and still be sure about the result when shooting a Moose with a 6.5x55.

I have 4 favorite bullets when it comes to a 6.5x55. 120 grain Swift A-frame, 140 grain Swift A-frame, 130 grain Swift Scirocco II and 120 grain Barnes Tipped TSX.
I also would think that the 120 grain Hornady GMX bullet is very good, but I have not tested that one myself.

I would feel 100% confident using a 6.5x55 with a premium bullet on a PG hunt.
A shot I would choose not to take with my 6.5x55, I also would choose not to take with my 375Ruger.

 

[sestoppelman]

I would like to say I enjoy a good debate, hope you dont think I'm being antagonistic I dont want this to turn ugly. yes new bullets have dif sec density call Berger(they make awesome bullets)Another thing the 300 RUM was desined to shoot 220gr 30 cal bullets at180 gr 300win mag velocity and yes I own one my chronoghaph isnt lieing.So much for carts not being designed for a bullet. If you had a better understanding of internal ballistics the case isnt just a pressure vessel.It performs many diferant functions. I seriously doubt all norwiegians and swedes use 6.5x55s there have been alot of advancements since 1896

No reason for it to get ugly. We have different viewpoints. To your assertion about internal ballistics. I have a fair understanding of it. To assert that the purpose of the case is other than as a pressure vessel indicates it is you who has trouble understanding ballistics. What else does the case do besides hold powder and push a bullet out of the barrel? What are these "many different functions" you speak of? And better bullets make EVERY cartridge better, not just newer ones. Did you not get Norwegianwoods point about using newer design lighter bullets in the 6.5? Ay yi yi.

 

[BARTFRNCS]

To answer your Qwestion is as follows the case does hold the powder charge but it conforms to the chamber walls when the propelant burns producing a very specific pressure curve depending configuation of the chamber. Bottlenecked cartridges have a theoretical venturi at the shoulder this affects the inherant accuracy of the cartridge.(now you know why weatherby cartridges have a radiused sholder) the way a powder charge burns is important short fat powder columbs tend to burn more uniformly making for a more consistant cartridge.(6mmPPC most accurate cartridge in benchrest comp)Case neck dimementions matter they hold the bullet strait or not and control neck tension which has a great deal to do with consistancy accuracy. As you can see theres alot going on in that first 100th of a second and there are other varibles involved as well.
Bart

 

[sestoppelman]

I do agree that some case designs seem to be more inherently accurate than others so I understand your point. However I think in many cases that advantage is overstated. For instance everyone "knows" that the old .30-30 is an inaccurate cartridge. Now certainly this is not a modern round, but if you take that same round and put it in better platform than a model 94 Winchester lever action all of a sudden the lousy old .30-30 becomes quite a different round, much more accuracy potential. The same could be said of others as well. Take the ancient .300 H&H with its long sloping body and neck. Its a match winning round from way back. Weatherby cartridges are no more accurate than anyone elses. Much of what you describe has more to do with the specific platform and internal firearm dimensions and ultra care with handloads than a specific cartridge. I just think too much is made of the newest and bestest new uber efficient cartridges and designs. Most of it is fodder for the gunwriters and marketing chaps of which I used to count myself. Further we could easily do without most of this newer crap just fine.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

How many need bench rest accuracy when hunting? And specially when hunting PG.
How many hunters are good enough shots in the field to benefit from a gun with bench rest performance?

I have a gun(6.5-06) that shoots 1/4 moa 3 shot groups all the time with my best loads and 1 moa 3 shot groups with my worst.
I can take 3 different loads with 3 totally different bullets, both in weight and shape and shoot 2 shots of each in a sub 1" 6 shot group at 100 meters.

Nice to have, but does it help me much compared with a 1 1/2 - 2 moa gun when shooting standing from sticks when hunting PG at normal hunting distances.

The fact is also that most cartridges have plenty of inherent accuracy to shoot sub moa. It all depends on the platform used and how well the cartridge has been loaded.

 

[spike.t]

oh dear older carts not as effective, that must mean i am stuffed as i use ancient ones .470, .416 rigby, .350 rigby, .275, 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r. i thought there might be hope for me as i have a .308 and .300 win mag, but this was dashed when i realised they are 50 odd years old now. there is no hope as i now want a 6.5 mannlicher-schonauer take down carbine, but i promise after reading this thread to only shoot mice with it.:stirring:

 

[trigger creep]

How many need bench rest accuracy when hunting? And specially when hunting PG.
How many hunters are good enough shots in the field to benefit from a gun with bench rest performance?

I have a gun(6.5-06) that shoots 1/4 moa 3 shot groups all the time with my best loads and 1 moa 3 shot groups with my worst.
I can take 3 different loads with 3 totally different bullets, both in weight and shape and shoot 2 shots of each in a sub 1" 6 shot group at 100 meters.

Nice to have, but does it help me much compared with a 1 1/2 - 2 moa gun when shooting standing from sticks when hunting PG at normal hunting distances.

The fact is also that most cartridges have plenty of inherent accuracy to shoot sub moa. It all depends on the platform used and how well the cartridge has been loaded.

DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER! All these people think they need sub-moa groups to go hunting, when they copuld've easily killed it with 1 1/2 MOA rifle as well . Hang, they most likely could've killed 90% of their game with a rifle that shoots 2 1/2 MOA as well (while people gasp and choke on their cream cheese bagels as they read my post).

 

[35bore]

oh dear older carts not as effective, that must mean i am stuffed as i use ancient ones .470, .416 rigby, .350 rigby, .275, 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r. i thought there might be hope for me as i have a .308 and .300 win mag, but this was dashed when i realised they are 50 odd years old now. there is no hope as i now want a 6.5 mannlicher-schonauer take down carbine, but i promise after reading this thread to only shoot mice with it.:stirring:

very well put... i would be gunless... which is not going to happen.

 

[sestoppelman]

oh dear older carts not as effective, that must mean i am stuffed as i use ancient ones .470, .416 rigby, .350 rigby, .275, 9.3x62 and 9.3x74r. i thought there might be hope for me as i have a .308 and .300 win mag, but this was dashed when i realised they are 50 odd years old now. there is no hope as i now want a 6.5 mannlicher-schonauer take down carbine, but i promise after reading this thread to only shoot mice with it.:stirring:

Head bangers ball!!

 

[libertarian]

The 6.5 has killed thousands of moose in the last 100+ years.. It'll work great on plains game and give very little recoil.

Bigger cartridges work too, but African plains game does not wear armored vests, despite what some would have you believe. Yes, a kudu is tougher than a whitetail, but if the bullet goes where you want it and the caliber is appropriate to the animal you won't have to track.

Dead is dead. If a 6.5 is what you shoot well, bring it, it'll be fine, IMHO.

 

[BARTFRNCS]

Since older is better I guess ill use an atlatl.

 

[35bore]

Since older is better I guess ill use an atlatl.

Heard talk that they may legalize it's use in my home state (if they haven't already)

 

[spike.t]

hey BART glag to see your seeing sense, but how did you know thats what i first used a long long time ago :laughing:

 

[Kiwi505]

The 6.5 has killed thousands of moose in the last 100+ years.. It'll work great on plains game and give very little recoil.

Bigger cartridges work too, but African plains game does not wear armored vests, despite what some would have you believe. Yes, a kudu is tougher than a whitetail, but if the bullet goes where you want it and the caliber is appropriate to the animal you won't have to track.

Dead is dead. If a 6.5 is what you shoot well, bring it, it'll be fine, IMHO.

What he said. I had a 6.5X55 and loved it!

 

[Jaeger717]

Remington 700? They are something to be avoided! I've heard numerous accouts from the Military that you touch the bolt, it goes off every 15 or less shots, the bolt also breaks off. There was once a TV Special on The History Channel telling how the Remington 700 has killed so many people by accident just by touching the bolt or flicking the safety 'On' or 'Off'. I would not trust anything like that-I still have all limbs!

Hopefully this was sarcasm! Nobody could actually believe that.