7x57 or 358 Norma Mag

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hello!

I am finalizing Safari plans and am deciding which plains game rifle to take.

I have two Model 70s, one in 7x57 (175gr Partition) and one in 358 Norma Mag (either a 222 Grain Hammer Hunter or 280gr Swift A Frame).

Plains game on my list are Blue Wildebeest, Zebra, Impala, Nyala, Warthog, and maybe a red hartebeest/kudu.

I will also be hunting Cape buffalo with a 404 Jeffery.

Interested in folks thoughts on which cartridge they'd run with!

@RStien321
As much as I love the 35cals the big Sweede would be overkill for your needs.
Personally I'd take the 7X57 with the partitions.
A lot will be shocked at my choice but y'all don't need a sledgehammer to crack walnuts. The 7mm will be fine and dandy.
Bob

 

[RStien321]

@RStien321
As much as I love the 35cals the big Sweede would be overkill for your needs.
Personally I'd take the 7X57 with the partitions.
A lot will be shocked at my choice but y'all don't need a sledgehammer to crack walnuts. The 7mm will be fine and dandy.
Bob

When I saw you posted, I thought, “Put one in the column for the 358 Norma.” But if the 35 cal advocate is saying 7x57, that carries some weight!

And the 7x57 and 404J are much more of a rifle pair in terms of a blued and walnut rifle. The Norma is very much an all weather rifle.

 

[RStien321]

7x57
If your ammo is lost in transit you can find 7x57 there. Bet you have trouble finding .358 Norma Mag ammo where you are now.

Quite true! I bought 250 pieces of brass a few years back and that was one of my finer accomplishments!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

When I saw you posted, I thought, “Put one in the column for the 358 Norma.” But if the 35 cal advocate is saying 7x57, that carries some weight!

And the 7x57 and 404J are much more of a rifle pair in terms of a blued and walnut rifle. The Norma is very much an all weather rifle.

@RStien321
The 358 Norma mag is a wonderful cartridge but in my humble opinion it ain't needed for the game mentioned. If he was going to use it on buffalo as well I would say fine take it and have fun.
The 7x57 will handle everything on the list and do it without fuss or bother.
I took my Whelen as I had it built for hunting Namibia and had a ball. Very effective in all game I shot but I only took one gun.
Seeing as the op is taking two guns I couldn't see the need for two heavy duty guns when a lighter calibre will do the job required for plains game.
But what do I know.
Bob

 

[RStien321]

I’m the OP - my post was totally meant to be singing your praises as the expert in 35 cal.

What are your thoughts on 35 caliber on buffalo? I thought about the Norma Mag as a backup for buffalo. Use some 280gr A Frames.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I absolutely love the 7x57mm Mauser. As far as African plains game are concerned, I have successfully made one shot kills on even eland bulls with this caliber, employing the 175Gr Sellier & Bellot Nosler Partition factory load (now unfortunately discontinued).

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I’m the OP - my post was totally meant to be singing your praises as the expert in 35 cal.

What are your thoughts on 35 caliber on buffalo? I thought about the Norma Mag as a backup for buffalo. Use some 280gr A Frames.

@RStien321
Personally I wouldn't have a problem taking on any buffalo that walks even with my Whelen.
A 280 AFrame at 2,500fps or a 310 gn Woodleigh rnsp or solid at 2,455 out of the Whelen would be more than enough gun in my book.
The big Sweede would be even better
Dang the 350 Rigbys were dropping them 100 year ago and they ain't got any tougher and the Sweede and the Whelen equal and exceed the Rigby. If'n you were allowed I wouldn't just use it as a main rifle not a back up.
My PH in Namibia said he would take me after buff with the Whelen.
Bob

 

[wvfred]

The 7x57 has been doing it for more than 100 years that's my choice.

 

[MS 9x56]

The 7x57 has been doing it for more than 100 years that's my choice.

It has a pretty good track record.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It has a pretty good track record.

@MS 9x56
What has my little brain working overtime and giving me a headache is:-
Why do cartridges that killed game 100 years ago quite well thank you over the last few years some of these same cartridges are now deemed marginal for the same game nowadays.
Game ain't got any tougher but somehow we need premium projectiles at warp speed to do exactly what the old 7x57 and others have been
doing for a long long time.
Have hunters got worse, advertising gotten better or do we just believe the bullshit of some gunwriters try and have us believe.
Bigger, faster flatter and hits harder da da da ain't always needed
A good ol cup and core at the right velocity will still poke a big enough hole in game to kill it.
Just ain't the latest and greatest.
Bob

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

@MS 9x56
What has my little brain working overtime and giving me a headache is:-
Why do cartridges that killed game 100 years ago quite well thank you over the last few years some of these same cartridges are now deemed marginal for the same game nowadays.
Game ain't got any tougher but somehow we need premium projectiles at warp speed to do exactly what the old 7x57 and others have been
doing for a long long time.
Have hunters got worse, advertising gotten better or do we just believe the bullshit of some gunwriters try and have us believe.
Bigger, faster flatter and hits harder da da da ain't always needed
A good ol cup and core at the right velocity will still poke a big enough hole in game to kill it.
Just ain't the latest and greatest.
Bob

I think that once upon a time hunters knew how to shoot, where to aim, and when to run. Now anyone who pick up a rifle seems to think they are snipers.
The 7x57 would be my choice (or a 275 rigby, as you shoot a better class of animal with a rigby) as it’s been successfully doing it since 1892 and is the right balance of everything
Gumpy

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

WOW.... Will describe them, but wont post pics.... What a tease!

 

[MS 9x56]

@MS 9x56
What has my little brain working overtime and giving me a headache is:-
Why do cartridges that killed game 100 years ago quite well thank you over the last few years some of these same cartridges are now deemed marginal for the same game nowadays.
Game ain't got any tougher but somehow we need premium projectiles at warp speed to do exactly what the old 7x57 and others have been
doing for a long long time.
Have hunters got worse, advertising gotten better or do we just believe the bullshit of some gunwriters try and have us believe.
Bigger, faster flatter and hits harder da da da ain't always needed
A good ol cup and core at the right velocity will still poke a big enough hole in game to kill it.
Just ain't the latest and greatest.
Bob

Mostly Bob the cause is people don’t learn to mount hold and squeeze of the shot. In other words they couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn if they were standing in it. Oh that and they are extremely sensitive to recoil.

 

[Javaman]

Based on my personal experience:

404 Jeff for Buff and Zebra (Zebra maxes out a 300 WM with 180 gr Accubond). Kudu as well.

358 Norma is likely overkill for anything lighter than Zebra but would work well on zebra and kudu. Too small for buff. Makes it a bit of an outlier.

7x57 great for smaller light skinned species such at warthog, wildebeest, Nyala, others. Seems like a good compliment to the Jeff.

Net net, I’d prolly bring the Jeff and 7x57.

YMMV but that would be how I would think about it.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think that once upon a time hunters knew how to shoot, where to aim, and when to run. Now anyone who pick up a rifle seems to think they are snipers.
The 7x57 would be my choice (or a 275 rigby, as you shoot a better class of animal with a rigby) as it’s been successfully doing it since 1892 and is the right balance of everything
Gumpy

@Grumpy gumpy
The 275 Rigby may do it with more class but the 7x57 will do it cheaper.
Have you seen the price of 275 Rigby ammo compared to 7x57 PPU. OUTRAGEOUS.
DANG even an old 1893 Spanish carbine in 7x57 that you could get in Australia back in the late 70s fer $39 will kill a kudu just as dead as a $15,000 275 in a Rigby.
Lucky I ain't got champagne taste.
Lucky my wife hasn't got champagne tastes either or she would never have married me.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Mostly Bob the cause is people don’t learn to mount hold and squeeze of the shot. In other words they couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn if they were standing in it. Oh that and they are extremely sensitive to recoil.

@MS 9x56
A one moa rifle don't make a one moa shooter.
They see all this bullshit and believe it. Soft recoil doesn't make you a better shooter either.
The only thing that does is time, patience and practice then more practice.
If'n you can't hit it with a rifle that groups 2" at 100 and 30# of recoil you ain't Gunna hit it with a rifle that groups 0.5" and recoils at 8#
Y'all got to know how to shoot first.
That's why God let us old farts get old so we could hopefully pass some knowledge into the young ones. Unfortunately YouTube and social media means they know everything and very rarely listen to age and wisdom that comes from the school of hard knocks. Fortunately some do and they turn out to be better than us.
Bob

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi Bob,

"A one moa rifle don't make a one moa shooter."
Agree!!! Very well said!!!

"Soft recoil doesn't make you a better shooter either."
I think soft recoil can colaborate to shoot better!
In my experience, teaching novel shooters-hunters, after learning to shoot well with a bolt action .22LR, with a lot of dry firing included, almost all of them, both boys and girls, can shoot well with a standard weight 7x57!!
I tend to think the 7x57 soft recoil is one of the reasons of its "effectiveness" in the field.
Best!!

CF

 

[MS 9x56]

@MS 9x56
A one moa rifle don't make a one moa shooter.
They see all this bullshit and believe it. Soft recoil doesn't make you a better shooter either.
The only thing that does is time, patience and practice then more practice.
If'n you can't hit it with a rifle that groups 2" at 100 and 30# of recoil you ain't Gunna hit it with a rifle that groups 0.5" and recoils at 8#
Y'all got to know how to shoot first.
That's why God let us old farts get old so we could hopefully pass some knowledge into the young ones. Unfortunately YouTube and social media means they know everything and very rarely listen to age and wisdom that comes from the school of hard knocks. Fortunately some do and they turn out to be better than us.
Bob

I taught both my son and daughter to shoot properly but unfortunately my grandchildren learn everything on YouTube and don’t listen. We can only do what we can. That’s pretty much why I have only a small select group of friends and relatives I will hunt with. Group keeps getting smaller as I get older.