A thorough conversation with Swarovski - Conclusion: Rookhawk knows nothing and is wrong about everything

[Lance Hopper]

What they didn’t tell you was that the family that own Swarovski, considers their sport Optics line to be the redheaded bastard step child of the family. If it wasn’t so lucrative, they wouldn’t make them at all because they don’t really care for them. Also, I learned a long time ago if you really, really like something buy multiples of it now because some dickhead in the future will deem it to be unnecessary and cancel that particular sku.

 

[WAB]

@WAB here is the best data I could find on PRS

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2025...g-range-precision-shooting-what-the-pros-use/

Thanks Dave. It is exactly what I suspected. I’m running a Leupold mark five on my PRC. The zero stop and consistent return to zero are a game changer. I like the Nightforce optics, but I just don’t want that kind of weight on a rifle I have to pack in Coues country.

 

[roklok]

Its a damn shame, there are essentially zero new scopes that appeal to me for a general purpose or DG hunting rifle. Leupold has done the same thing. Some of my favorite scopes for hunting rifles are Leupolds compact/ultralight series. Back when Leupold's custom shop was operational, I would send in scopes to get new reticles installed. One of my favorite scopes is a 3-9 compact that I had a TMR reticle installed. It lives on a .280 AI, and I have killed game to 500 yards with it. No dialing needed, use the appropriate hash mark. It is light and trim, works perfectly and doesn't look like the hubble telescope perched on my rifle. I have no interest in a 30mm tube, let alone a 34mm tube. These large scopes are totally out of place on a trim hunting rifle. I own two Swarovski scopes, both Z5 3.5-18. One is on a 243, one is on a 28 Nosler. I like them because they are relatively lightweight and still one inch tube. These two rifles though are more long range oriented, not general purpose or stalking rifles.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

So, what I just learned is that I'm really glad I bought my 1-6X24EE when I did, for the price I paid, even though it didn't work for what I thought it would. And I'm not selling it for anything.

Also, as has been stated, "precision rifle shooting" has become a large part of the market, while we hunters retain a small part, and, especially in Germany/Austria, despite the wonderful marketing, is becoming smaller. This is why you can buy fine German rifles for such a reasonable price. Older hunters move to the Happy Hunting Grounds, and their heirs by law need to either sell the rifles, or have them destroyed/rendered incapable of use. That's the modern world in which we live.

Who the hell wants to shoot an elk at 700m? Get closer.

Second thought: Optics are not rocket surgery. I mean, we know what works, and we can probably buy high quality glass, right? So why don't we, as a group, invest some of our hard earned cash and create a company that assembles/manufactures the scopes that we want/need? I don't have a large amount of free cash, but I understand logistics and distribution, and I'm willing to invest my time. Who's with me? It's a niche/vertical market, but what do we need to make it work?

A booth at SCI that proclaims "We Don't Make Tactical Shit." That should "make it work." SHOT Show would definitely be a waste of promotional $$$.

 

[Muskox]

All of them are dickheads. They are trying to understand how to make a dent in the precision rifle market, and leaving everything else behind.

I had a very long conversation with Leica engineer at Jagd and Hund. They know they are chasing the LR market and don't care. They re honest about it.

Zeiss has fucked up their own European market so bad for themselves and only Leica and Swarovski are doing anything to cater to anyone.

Zeiss is selling game cameras and trying to beat Bushnell in a race to the bottom.

 

[30.06king]

It’s too bad that they can’t at least do a run of these models every other year or every fourth year to keep a supply in the pipeline

Good idea and I kinda thought Swarovski might try something along these lines. They could go to their top twenty dealers asking them to take pre-orders, maybe with deposits, and do a production run with, say, 10% extra, to fill that order. Then repeat in 2 to 4 years or whatever interval they think sensible.
Otherwise, give the pre production order taking to someone like Lipseys who have expertise in getting special production runs done and I bet they would make a success of it.

 

[VertigoBE]

When all those new gun owners, currently on their high of precision and tactical shooting, start to grow a bit more wiser, the demand for the more classical scopes will again pick up. However it might take 20years. I see this more as a pendulum. More shooters now, means more hunters later, means more interest in getting closer will gain momentum.

I buy all the used Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 and 1.5-10x42 at 1000€ I can find in the mean time.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

As far as I'm concerned governments could go ahead and ban long range guns and gear with high capacity magazines. I really don't care if snipers wound their adversaries at 1500 yards. The world has way too many people anyway. Soldiers must accept that possibly being maimed or dying a horrible death is part of their job description. But recklessly causing undue pain and suffering to innocent wild animals doesn't cut it for me. It's too bad our voices are being drowned out by the Rambo wannabe kooks. I must admit I didn't think hunting optics would ever be dragged so far down the tacticool toilet. But really, who is dragging who? Hmmm.

 

[Phil Giordano]

I trust much more Schmidt & Bender and Meopta, over current Zeiss or Swarovski - models, reliability, strength, and most of all warranty service! Schmidt and Meopta really follows the customer, light years ahead the other two. Personally, today, I would never buy a Swarovski or Zeiss, they're totally loosing common sense.

 

[BJH65]

I trust much more Schmidt & Bender and Meopta, over current Zeiss or Swarovski - models, reliability, strength, and most of all warranty service! Schmidt and Meopta really follows the customer, light years ahead the other two. Personally, today, I would never buy a Swarovski or Zeiss, they're totally loosing common sense.

What are your thoughts on German Precision Optics (GPO)? They have what appear to be some viable scopes suitable for Africa and DG. Are they a viable replacement for Swarovski?

 

[skydiver386]

Gentlemen, there is an upside to all of this.

Any gap in the market can be taken by another company, or possibly a new company altogether. If there is enough profit motive for these scopes, someone will build them.

 

[sgt_zim]

Never looked through a Swaro in the field, but I gotta say, I like my Zeiss V6 1-6x24. A little heavy at about 18 ounces, but that actually works out in my wife's favor as she's new to shooting larger bores like her 375H&H Ruger #1 Tropical, and every ounce helps tame the recoil a bit.

 

[sgt_zim]

The 34mm tube is really a game changer - that's just a bad idea

Right? Exactly how much elevation adjustment do you need for a scope that won't likely be used past 100 or 150 yards?

 

[rookhawk]

Also looking online the Z8+ still has many models with 30mm tubes are those all going away?

Correct. There were two lines: z8i and z8i+. The PLUS line is a 34mm tube whereas the z8i was a 30mm tube. I and most of the safari rifle world is none too impressed with tactical 34mm rings and there are not many traditional ring choices in that size. About the only way to make it work is to do $900 EAW pivot mounts and there corresponding Rail "rings". Then you could use a z8i+ in a pivot mount rail arrangement where you wouldn't care about the 34mm tube but aesthetically it looks like a giant salami on the gun.

 

[CBeck]

What are your thoughts on German Precision Optics (GPO)? They have what appear to be some viable scopes suitable for Africa and DG. Are they a viable replacement for Swarovski?

Just ordered a 2-16x44 and looking at the 1.5-9x32 also made in a x44.

They also have a 1-8x24 as does Hawke. I have a Hawke on my .375 it claims 90% light transmission. I'm pleased so far with it. Very excited to compare to the GPO

Around here, most anything not assembled in europe gets a thumb to the nose. I hovever dissagree. Its a global world and GPO engineers and builds some components in Germany and assembled in China....sent back to Germany for final testing and QC and packaged and shipped.

From all I've read, they are on par with the top european manufacturers....the founders of the company were engineers and CEOs of some brands like zeiss...

At any rate, it was worth a shot for me. I liked the price and specs. Time will tell, Ive never seen one in person but was worth the gamble.

I will admit, I have a bad habit of trying to find a hidden gem.

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk
Great topic! thanks for sharing!
Now the main question is: which scope brands would you recommend to look at, to suit the needs of the traditional hunter that you described?

I don't mean to be obtuse or stubborn, but my recommendation is used / b-stock / classifieds Swarovskis. They do come up for sale and even at or above MSRP for the z6i EE 1-6x24mm (illuminated or not) there is nothing comparable. For the non-EE models, there are still many dealers out there that have the discontinued z6i 1-6x24mm with the #4 reticle. $2400ish? Truly fantastic optics.

I have not tried the Leica 1-6x24mm amplus so I can't say its a good or bad scope, but $1300 is a reasonable price. I've been a Swaro loyalist for a very long time because I truly think they are the best hunting optics ever made. S&B would be my second choice because they are pricier and heavier, but still very good.

Don't misunderstand my opinion of Swaro. I hate the answers I got, I appreciate the honesty. As a consumer that has owned 20-30 of their optics or more, its just gut wrenching to resign myself to buying used scopes from when the company supported the traditional hunting community. (safari and spot-and-stalk = traditional)

I'm sitting at my desk admiring a z8i 30mm tube 1-8x24mm optic right now. I'm waiting for low talley rings to be delivered so I can install it on my 7x57 single shot, about the most perfect optic for all shooting conditions I will encounter between 12 yards and 350 yards. (as far as I'd ever shoot off sticks or a steady branch)

Ken Owen collects an obscure brand of scope as well, they made a 5" eye relief optic for $400-$600. I think they were made in Taiwan or Japan. I don't recall the name. He tries to buy every one he sees on fleabay because he uses them to regulate double rifles. Sorry I can't give you the name but that would be an affordable but discontinued alternative.

 

[375er]

I don't mean to be obtuse or stubborn, but my recommendation is used / b-stock / classifieds Swarovskis. They do come up for sale and even at or above MSRP for the z6i EE 1-6x24mm (illuminated or not) there is nothing comparable. For the non-EE models, there are still many dealers out there that have the discontinued z6i 1-6x24mm with the #4 reticle. $2400ish? Truly fantastic optics.

I have not tried the Leica 1-6x24mm amplus so I can't say its a good or bad scope, but $1300 is a reasonable price. I've been a Swaro loyalist for a very long time because I truly think they are the best hunting optics ever made. S&B would be my second choice because they are pricier and heavier, but still very good.

Don't misunderstand my opinion of Swaro. I hate the answers I got, I appreciate the honesty. As a consumer that has owned 20-30 of their optics or more, its just gut wrenching to resign myself to buying used scopes from when the company supported the traditional hunting community. (safari and spot-and-stalk = traditional)

I'm sitting at my desk admiring a z8i 30mm tube 1-8x24mm optic right now. I'm waiting for low talley rings to be delivered so I can install it on my 7x57 single shot, about the most perfect optic for all shooting conditions I will encounter between 12 yards and 350 yards. (as far as I'd ever shoot off sticks or a steady branch)

Ken Owen collects an obscure brand of scope as well, they made a 5" eye relief optic for $400-$600. I think they were made in Taiwan or Japan. I don't recall the name. He tries to buy every one he sees on fleabay because he uses them to regulate double rifles. Sorry I can't give you the name but that would be an affordable but discontinued alternative.

What about Kahles??

 

[rookhawk]

What about Kahles??

Kahles = Swarovski, same firm and management team.

Kahles Europe has many fine scopes for the traditional hunter. They will not import them to the USA. In the US, they are trying to distinguish the two lines with Swarovski = Hunting and Kahles = Long Range Shooting / Tactical.

 

[375er]

Kahles = Swarovski, same firm and management team.

Kahles Europe has many fine scopes for the traditional hunter. They will not import them to the USA. In the US, they are trying to distinguish the two lines with Swarovski = Hunting and Kahles = Long Range Shooting / Tactical.

Ah. I'm starting to feel part of a dying breed, or discriminated against!!

 

[thi9elsp]

Back in 2012 I put Z3 3-9x36 on both of my browning stainless stalkers in 30-06 and 7mm-08 and love the compact size, glass, etc. They fit nicely into a scabbard when on horseback in the mountains.