A thorough conversation with Swarovski - Conclusion: Rookhawk knows nothing and is wrong about everything

[Muskox]

What are your thoughts on German Precision Optics (GPO)? They have what appear to be some viable scopes suitable for Africa and DG. Are they a viable replacement for Swarovski?

They are made in China, so no.

 

[Phil Giordano]

What are your thoughts on German Precision Optics (GPO)? They have what appear to be some viable scopes suitable for Africa and DG. Are they a viable replacement for Swarovski?

Don't know, I do not have any direct experience with GPO.
As far as I know, they are ...Far East made, so no thank you.
To me, Meopta is growing in quality and performance, and the Meostar R2 is an outstanding scope, built with our necessity in mind. They are a more than viable replacement for Swarovski!

 

[Letzhunt]

So I had a very interesting conversation with some Nightforce reps (engineers actually) at the EuroOptic booth at SCI. I basically told them that if they made a LPVO with a simple reticle and a brighter dot in FFP they would have a contender in the dangerous game market. I pointed out how large the SCI show was and how many DG hunters actually exist. They make a solid scope but being 2nd focal plane the reticle is too small on 1x. They actually said it would not be that difficult to do. I encouraged them to try and to send me a demo and I would run it on a 375 and a Lott and report back. I have Nightforce on all but just a few rifles and the internal construction is superb. With the right support and push I think we could collectively come up with the DG scope requirements and submit to the top tier companies and maybe one would answer with a DG model we could actually use. I don't think many companies actually realize how many big bores and DG hunters are actually out there.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Same here!

 

[Beck]

The summary for this post is basically every conversation I've ever had with my wife!

 

[Letzhunt]

to correct m previous post about the Nightforce scope option..... I meant for them to make a 2nd focal plane DG scope and that the FFP options the reticle is too small at 1X. I did say it right in the conversation with NF just stated it backwards in my post here.

 

[ZG47]

@rookhawk Nickel offers a 1.5-6x30 ‘Big Game’ scope with advertised eye relief of 4.9 inches, with a more expensive rail mount version available. If you want to pay a significant number of Euros and wait the stated 6-8 months, it is the genuine sole option for a brand new ‘very long eye relief’ hunting scope. I have never seen an example of this optic but they have been on the market for quite some time and I have never come across any complaints. So … probably built to the same quality standard as their Running Boar scopes that just seem to last forever.

 

[HankBuck]

Last weekend I had a lengthy conversation with the region's swarovksi rep and we talked about a lot of different things, but basically the summary was nothing I want is available and they have no intention of making more of what I deemed fantastic. A few of the highlights of the conversation:

1.) My premise: The z6i 1-6x24mm EE was the finest optic ever made. They are selling for 200%-300% of original MSRP new in the box. Swarovski's position is nobody wanted them and they lose FOV, they believe FOV is the key trait. They stated "how much eye relief do you really need anyway?". My response was two fold, one that 5" allows you to scope large bore rifles and its literally the only one that exists. I don't enjoy close scopes on 458Lott and up rifles. My second point was that for stalking rifles, it gave the opportunity to come up for a snap shot like a shotgun, rather than seeking for good eye relief that introduces hesitation. They politely disagreed. They said if I bought 1500 of them, roughly $3.3m USD, they'd make me anything I want. I asked for a practical number minimum order and I'd maybe do just that, but they wouldn't give me a reasonable number. They did mention they sold some sort of rail mount scope in the USA and literally sold 4 units of them, but they didn't want to make another EE.

2.) My second topic was that the 3-9x36mm z3 was a bargain and perfect for stalking rifles at <$700 for a great optic. The weight and size allowed low rings and was appropriate for kipplaufs, falling blocks, and lightweight bolt guns. Their response was the 42mm is barely bigger, so they are just sticking with that one.

3.) My third point was that we were standing next to a rack of London made safari rifles worth about $400,000. For those rifles, people take pride in traditional rings and a low or extra low ring that brings the sight picture in line with the stock geometry and iron sights. That means a scope like the z8i 1-8x24mm with the 30mm tube should be brought back, because aesthetically and functionally people spending premium money on safari and stalking rifles do not want 34mm rings, nor do they want the extra height, nor do they want to use hideously ugly tactical rings. You really have very few options in fine gun rings in 34mm whereas there is a plethora of rings for the 1" and 30mm offerings that are appropriate for Rigbys, Dakotas, and all the other typical safari rifles. Swarovski's answer was that I should just buy ugly 34mm rings, or I could pay $5500-$8000 and have someone like Rigby or Holland build new custom 34mm rings and mounts to accomodate their new tube sizes rather than offering an industry standard 30mm scope appropriate for the task. Another lovely scope option now discontinued.

4.) My fourth question was "what happened to the Kahles Helia lineup?" because they had nice small bells for stalking rifles, or they had straight tube 4x and 5x options for double rifles, drillings, kipplaufs, etc. Their response was they are still made for the EU market because Vortex and Leupold do not have a presence, but they are no longer imported to the USA. I asked if I bought them in the EU, would they support them for repairs? The answer is no, it would be deemed gray market.

I'm being told that the market doesn't demand what I like and that I'm in the minority. Maybe that's correct, but Swarovski also spent decades building a reputation as a true hunter's optic company. The brochures would show old gentleman hunting chamois with kipplaufs, trachten jackets, tyrollian hats on their heads. It suggested quality and tradition, that was their reputation. They no longer make the products that are compatible with the lifestyles and firearms they loved to feature in their ad copy of the past ten years, now showing bench rest plastic rifles and gigantic glass in their ad copy.

I suggested they cannibalized their own market, too many SKUs, reticles, illuminations, and that dilution resulted in too few units sold of these storied products. They also didn't offer the lineup above to the right dealers, the bespoke makers and the Dakota/Rigby/et al dealers that know how to use the right rings, mounts, and optics for the tasks at hand. They remained unpersuaded and closed the conversation showing me their new Western Hunter long-range scope with ballistic turrets for shooting elk at 700 yards. Clearly, they are selling into the sniper and long range hunter industry where every other brand has a large presence as well.

I'm not here to shoot the messenger, Swarovski has the right to do whatever they wish, I'm just saddened that the best optic company in the world has discontinued 100% of the optics that I have come to love over the past 20 years. I honestly think part of the problem is most dealers in fine rifles don't even understand stock-to-optic fit so they aren't advocating for what is proper and correct for their rifles either.

Any way you slice it, Swarovski has products that are now directly in line with Vortex, Leupold, and Nightforce but none of the useful outliers that they were known for over the past many decades.

@rookhawk - i agree with you and have No use for large objective bell - 40mm is max for me and 36mm is near perfect. I also prefer a light - trim- scope and as Low a mount as possible, always use the lowest rings to barely clear the barrel. As for magnification 3 to 9 is my max magnification for big game and 1.75 to 6 excellent for Elk size and above….anything over 9 power = Pronghorn & Prairie Dogs. I also prefer a 1” tube for the “trim & light” aspect, if there is any advantage in brightness, FOV etc…it is Lost on Me. Lastly, for eye relief it’s always a trade off so I prioritize a balance between FOV & Eye Relief because you can’t have both - 3.5” to 4” has been plenty for me: use proper mount AND don’t creep up on stock but even then if lying prone and shooting at severe angles (Up or Down steep hill) — always carry BandAids.

 

[CBeck]

Not to be a contrarian, but I find the argument of where something is manufactured to be of Little use this day and age. Almost all products especially high-tech products are manufactured with parts sourced all over the globe.

For example, many nightforce rifle scopes are labeled as being made in Japan. Well that’s partially true and partially not many of them are actually assembled in the United States with parts made in Japan so saying that I’m not buying something because it’s made in the Middle East or the far east or east Africa is a little silly in my humble opinion.

How many of you are walking around with an iPhone in your pocket made in China? Engineered in the good old US of A and manufactured in China.