A thorough conversation with Swarovski - Conclusion: Rookhawk knows nothing and is wrong about everything

[Ontario Hunter]

That was my point. Unless you have looked through the exact scope and rifle combo, judgements are nothing more than theoretical.

I now have a 3-9x40 scope on my deer/PG rifle. I know what a big game animal at 70 yards looks like through 9x. It doesn't look like an animal. Just parts of it. My DGR wears a 1-4x 30mm scope that I feel is a much better "all rounder". It sets surprisingly low (actually had to shave a tiny bit from bolt handle to clear ocular bell) and field of view is excellent at any magnification. Light gathering ability is certainly sufficient for the work this gun will be doing. I think it would also be more than sufficient for any ethical (or allowable) plains game hunting. If I ever again have to go after a wounded animal in the dark, the scope comes off and I switch to irons.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Swarovski Optik is a very profitable company.. In 1993 their revenue was about $31M Euros.. in 2024 they brought in roughly $195M Euros.. their margins arent published (they get rolled into the Swaro mothership.. and they arent publicly traded) but on average from what I can tell 15% is about normal for a true bottom line for most optics manufacturers..

The key thing to note however is where all of that growth is coming from... as already discussed, hunting as a sport is in decline globally.. and "high end" hunting is in rapid decline... the number of people willing to invest in top shelf rifles and optics for the purpose of hunting is getting smaller and smaller each year..

Swaro Optik has had huge growth in its sales of binos and spotting scopes (lots of people other than hunters purchase these items).. while scopes (depending on the model) are largely in steady state or in decline..

If they want to keep selling scopes.. they have to find ways to appeal to a much larger target audience.. .DG hunters and even hunters that appreciate fine optics paired with fine rifles are a shrinking market..

Swaro is also still a family owned business... they are not publicly traded.. with family owned businesses the interests and the passions of the owners are generally the direction that companies tend to move (as opposed to traded companies where bottom lines and stock values are often the only things that matter)..

There is also a well documented feud that has been going on internal to the Swarovski family about the management and the direction of the company thats lasted for years (you can find articles dating back to at least 2019.. I'm sure the problems arose well before then).. Most of their internal fighting has been related to the crystal side of the business.. but it certainly impacts the entire enterprise at large..

Long and the short of it is... if the family members cant get work out their differences and communicate properly about ideas and initiatives... and there arent any dyed in the wool hunters among them that are closely listening or paying attention to the hunting market.. and they arent worried about growth or making money (they are clearly doing both without being concerned much about scopes).. and the tactical market is growing while the hunting market is declining.. and.. and.. and...

expecting them to care about whether a small, niche hunting group is pleased with their decisions and direction.. is sorta unrealistic don't you think?

Interesting insight. Thanks! I'm a business historian and family business in this age is almost extinct. With that kind of growth and return it does seem odd that the family would decide to rock the boat. Why try to fix something that is majorly unbroken? Is there any evidence the scope end of their business is actually pulling the company down? Perhaps it's not keeping up with growth in the other sectors, but really what could keep up with them? I would think that high end hunters account for some of their binocular and spotting scope business. Alienate them by jumping into the already overstuffed tacticool scope market and there's certainly a risk they will lose customers in the other two sectors. I think you are probably correct in assuming some personal decisions may be at play here, not necessarily good business decisions. Intriguing.

 

[mdwest]

I dont see any evidence that the scope side of things is harming the business (no clue if it is or not).. there's just talk about it not having the same growth or return as the other parts of the business.. so it doesn't get a whole lot of love like some of the other parts do...

A lot of the family conflict stemmed from what I can tell from disputes on how to manage through COVID, disputes over the appointed CEO.. disputes over how to grow the fine crystal side of the business, etc.. and probably has nothing to do with scopes at all.. they just don't seem to be able to get past it all.. first counts I find being reported of their "feud" start showing up in 2019... and continue all the way through 2024 when they actually started suing each other.. I haven't seen anything in the press that's been published in the last few months.. but if lawsuits got filed mid 2024, its almost guaranteed that they are still going on now.. if they were dropped or settled there should have been someone reporting on that..

if the key shareholders (all family members from what I can tell) cant seem to get along on much of anything concerning major items.. they're probably not going to get along on much of anything.. and certainly wont bother themselves with trying to "fix" or "improve" the smaller issues before they get the larger issues resolved..

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I dont see any evidence that the scope side of things is harming the business (no clue if it is or not).. there's just talk about it not having the same growth or return as the other parts of the business.. so it doesn't get a whole lot of love like some of the other parts do...

A lot of the family conflict stemmed from what I can tell from disputes on how to manage through COVID, disputes over the appointed CEO.. disputes over how to grow the fine crystal side of the business, etc.. and probably has nothing to do with scopes at all.. they just don't seem to be able to get past it all.. first counts I find being reported of their "feud" start showing up in 2019... and continue all the way through 2024 when they actually started suing each other.. I haven't seen anything in the press that's been published in the last few months.. but if lawsuits got filed mid 2024, its almost guaranteed that they are still going on now.. if they were dropped or settled there should have been someone reporting on that..

if the key shareholders (all family members from what I can tell) cant seem to get along on much of anything concerning major items.. they're probably not going to get along on much of anything.. and certainly wont bother themselves with trying to "fix" or "improve" the smaller issues before they get the larger issues resolved..

Thanks again for your insight. Doesn't sound good. Not surprising some aspects of the business seem confused. Curious, what sources you're using. Sounds like a soap opera that might make for entertaining reading.

 

[WAB]

Maybe you didn't understand my point. An 8x scope at 75 yards or less is going to show a bunch of hair no matter how much light it gathers. I don't consider a fixed 8x to be a particularly useful "all rounder" scope. I also don't consider shooting at last light to be particularly useful either. I have done it a couple of times but very close range and, with one exception, all were follow up on wounded animals. Had I been using an 8x scope I think it would have been hopeless. Too close.

It is interesting that all my PHs in Africa insisted on wrapping up plains game hunts WELL before last light. Had I been on my home turf I would have kept hunting longer. However, when approaching last light here, I typically unload and disable my rifle for the walk out. Removes any temptation to shoot too late. It's also illegal to have an unsheathed operational rifle in the field (or vehicle) after dark so I remove the bolt to make it dysfunctional. In Montana I kept the rifle loaded and ready during walk out in the dark. That's grizzly country.

You have no idea what you are talking about relative to the designed use of this scope. And it’s totally wrong to say that all you will see is hair at seventy five yards. Not every idea has to fit within your limited experience set. And yes, I know, you’ve been hunting for sixty years. However, on a global basis, your experience set is very limited. A man offered up a helpful and accurate observation. Do you really have to dive in and try to prove him wrong???

 

[WAB]

I now have a 3-9x40 scope on my deer/PG rifle. I know what a big game animal at 70 yards looks like through 9x. It doesn't look like an animal. Just parts of it. My DGR wears a 1-4x 30mm scope that I feel is a much better "all rounder". It sets surprisingly low (actually had to shave a tiny bit from bolt handle to clear ocular bell) and field of view is excellent at any magnification. Light gathering ability is certainly sufficient for the work this gun will be doing. I think it would also be more than sufficient for any ethical (or allowable) plains game hunting. If I ever again have to go after a wounded animal in the dark, the scope comes off and I switch to irons.

Look up the scope referenced. The FOV at seventy five meters is nine feet. You must hunt much bigger deer than I do if you can only see bits and pieces of the animal in a nine foot circle.

 

[PerH]

8x56 would be mounted too high and too much magnification to be useful as a quick shooter for stalking up close. Shooting things at last light is dicey enough, especially if no snow. In my experience trying to take animals long range at that time of day should be reserved for varmints.

It’s not that tall mounted as regular 1 inch scopes and the bell get a bit forward on barrel . Excellent swap scope with a 2-7 variable . But I find much of scope use for me to be set on 6 or 8 power anyway on a x56 variable . So a fixed one that is there all the time make it worthy for many situations.

 

[DieJager]

@rookhawk Nickel offers a 1.5-6x30 ‘Big Game’ scope with advertised eye relief of 4.9 inches, with a more expensive rail mount version available. If you want to pay a significant number of Euros and wait the stated 6-8 months, it is the genuine sole option for a brand new ‘very long eye relief’ hunting scope. I have never seen an example of this optic but they have been on the market for quite some time and I have never come across any complaints. So … probably built to the same quality standard as their Running Boar scopes that just seem to last forever.

Damn that is expensive. Saved it anyways on my bookmarks. Never know when you need one.

 

[DieJager]

I also don't consider shooting at last light to be particularly useful either.

A large amount of roe deer I shoot is in this conditions. As a lot of fellow Europeans do.

You need to understand European hunting more before you make statements like this because it shows that you are not well informed on the matter.

And that is no shame. There are a lot of things I do not know enough about. Difference is that I shut my mouth and listen to those who do.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Look up the scope referenced. The FOV at seventy five meters is nine feet. You must hunt much bigger deer than I do if you can only see bits and pieces of the animal in a nine foot circle.

75 meters = 82 yards. Therefore, at 75 yards the field of view would be 8.2 feet. I guess an elk or moose would just about fill it. And I did say 75 yards or LESS. At close range more often than not the game sees you when you see it. That requires quick shooting which requires quick acquisition and shot location. An animal that fills the field of view or more is typically not going to acquire quickly, especially if it's moving. That has been my experience anyway. Maybe you have different experiences. Which is fine.

 

[mdwest]

Thanks again for your insight. Doesn't sound good. Not surprising some aspects of the business seem confused. Curious, what sources you're using. Sounds like a soap opera that might make for entertaining reading.

Google "swarovski family feud".. it gets covered occasionally by the European press, but hasn't caught much attention on this side of the pond.. you'll see a couple of articles published as early as late 2019 (pre covid) about disputes, arguments, etc among the family members.. and then by mid 2020 there's a lot of traction in the press as their disputes heat up.. with several more articles being published through 2024 as they start actually filing lawsuits in an attempt to get things resolved...

here's a few of the links I found interesting:

Family feud rages as Swarovski empire loses its lustre

“We are forced to reimagine and rescale our entire Swarovski business,” Buchbauer tells AFP at the Wattens HQ, framed by a selection of Swarovski-embellished robes.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

https://www.courthousenews.com/family-feud-rages-as-swarovski-empire-loses-its-luster/

Swarovski family at war over future of empire amid falling profits

Robert Buchbauer, CEO of Swarovski and the great-great gandson of its founder, wants to radically overhaul the company amid a torrid year that is due to see profits slump by 30 per cent.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Austria/Switzerland : Swarovski struggling with languid growth and lingering family conflict - 21/03/2024 - Glitz

Crystal jewellery giant Swarovski announced a tentative return to growth in 2023, but the company has not paid dividends to family shareholders for more than four years and is caught in the middle of - 3/21/2024

www.glitz.paris

one of my first takeaways when reading was that Swaro is a 2.5B Euro business.. and Swaro Optik represents less than 200M Euros of its total revenue.. while 200M Euros isn't chump change.. its a much smaller piece of the pie than I thought it would be..

That said, in the fine crystal industry, 2.5B isn't just big.. its massive... waterford crystal by comparison did about 9.5M in revenue last year.. baccarat did 313M... Daum Crystal did about 18M..

I can see why Swaro would be much more focused on their fine crystal business than their optik business.. they have an incredibly domineering position.. with limited global competition..

whereas on the optik side of the house, they're actually only an "big" sized player with a whole lot more competition out there.. Leupold did $271M last year.. Vortex did $79M.. nightforce did $23M.. etc..etc..

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A large amount of roe deer I shoot is in this conditions. As a lot of fellow Europeans do.

You need to understand European hunting more before you make statements like this because it shows that you are not well informed on the matter.

And that is no shame. There are a lot of things I do not know enough about. Difference is that I shut my mouth and listen to those who do.

You can certainly shoot at animals in last light and risk losing them. That is your prerogative. I personally try to avoid it. The post does say it is my personal choice. I think I also qualified late hours shooting varmints as personally more acceptable. Recovery is not important and the animals are often so small that they don't live long if hit anyplace on their body (hogs being the exception). In many North American urban areas culling deer in fact takes place after dark by professional marksman using suppressors. This reduces the risk of negative public response to dying animals, etc. But that is culling, not hunting.