AA2520 vs TAC vs Varget

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

According to Glen Zediker, there is only one powder suitable for the .308 in a semi auto, IMR4895 and I think that load you mention is meant for the M1A according to GZ. Most of us who shot M14 type rifles use lots of other powders with complete safety and satisfaction. Anything from IMR3031 to Varget and R15 and anything in between. Much slower and the op rod is at risk of getting bent from the port pressure timing. 4064 is a fav. In my M14 rifles I use it and 4895 and AA2530 as well. I usually keep the R15 for my M40 bolt rifles.

SesSestoppelman
I agree with your choice as the M1 Garand and it's derivatives operate in a different pressure parameters opinion rod bends and failure to cycle are common problems with some powders but apparently this apparently can be remedied by changing the rod spring. I only have this on hearsay from years ago when we were allowed to have that type of weapon.
Bob

 

[sgt_zim]

Range report time on CFE223.

Never got to max charge, but at 47.2 gr CFE 223 under Speer Gold Dot 168 gr, I'm getting an average of 2874 fps, with +/- 9.5 fps, with sub-MOA accuracy. I was really stunned at the velocity since I'm used to the 2600 fps neighborhood with Varget and 175 or 178 gr bullets.

I've reset my zero to 400 yards with this load, about 10" high at 300, and about 8" high at 200. That's easy enough to compensate for without fiddling around with the elevation turret.

 

[sestoppelman]

I have a pound of that coming on my Grafs order just put in. LGS didn't have any, or much of anything else I wanted either. Looks like Varget is scarce again!

 

[sgt_zim]

I have a pound of that coming on my Grafs order just put in. LGS didn't have any, or much of anything else I wanted either. Looks like Varget is scarce again!

Varget has been out of stock since around Thanksgiving, give or take a little. That's why I switched.

 

[sestoppelman]

Comes and goes, not even any on Gunbroker! No Midway either.
Just checked with Powder Valley, out.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Range report time on CFE223.

Never got to max charge, but at 47.2 gr CFE 223 under Speer Gold Dot 168 gr, I'm getting an average of 2874 fps, with +/- 9.5 fps, with sub-MOA accuracy. I was really stunned at the velocity since I'm used to the 2600 fps neighborhood with Varget and 175 or 178 gr bullets.

I've reset my zero to 400 yards with this load, about 10" high at 300, and about 8" high at 200. That's easy enough to compensate for without fiddling around with the elevation turret.

Sgt Zim
Told you it was good stuff, a little dirty but almost eliminates copper fouling.
I bet you're glad you tried it .
Cheers mate Bob

 

[sgt_zim]

Comes and goes, not even any on Gunbroker! No Midway either.
Just checked with Powder Valley, out.

Yup, haven't seen any at Powder Valley, Graf's, or Midway in months.

 

[sgt_zim]

Curious thing during this bit of experimenting.

I'm doing parallel loads, one for my 308, and one for a TC Encore. I haven't yet run across a combo of Varget or CFE223 with ELD-X 178, VLDH 175, or Gold Dot 168 which shoots as well out of the Encore as it does my target rifle. What's more is the Encore has a standard 26" Encore fluted barrel, mine has a 24" heavy fluted. The 168s are almost 100 fps faster out of my rifle than they are out of the Encore, with identical powder charges, same lot of Hornady brass, same lot of CCI LR primers.

Maybe too much jump with COAL at 2.80" for the Encore.

My Savage 10 does fine with the heavies set back at 2.790 and the 168s at 2.80

 

[bruce moulds]

zim,
the 2 main factors to achieve accuracy are powder charge and relation of ogive to the rifling.
after that you can make finer changes with neck tension, primers, etc, assuming the same bullet.
until you do both of the first two, you will never know.
if you try different seating depths, (relation of ogive to rifling), the best place to start is 0.010" jammed.
as you back off, pressure will then decrease.
shortening in 0.005" increments is a sensible change.
I have never in any gun found just touching to be the most accurate.
I think this is due to slight variations in bullet ogives due to manufacturing, meaning that some touch, some just jam, and some just jump.
for hunting rifles of course jamming bullets should be avoided, and they also might not fit the magazine.
bruce.

 

[sgt_zim]

zim,
the 2 main factors to achieve accuracy are powder charge and relation of ogive to the rifling.
after that you can make finer changes with neck tension, primers, etc, assuming the same bullet.
until you do both of the first two, you will never know.
if you try different seating depths, (relation of ogive to rifling), the best place to start is 0.010" jammed.
as you back off, pressure will then decrease.
shortening in 0.005" increments is a sensible change.
I have never in any gun found just touching to be the most accurate.
I think this is due to slight variations in bullet ogives due to manufacturing, meaning that some touch, some just jam, and some just jump.
for hunting rifles of course jamming bullets should be avoided, and they also might not fit the magazine.
bruce.

Did a quick check last night and found COAL when I set the ogive to the lands was 2.875. I figure if I change the COAL to 2.865 or 2.860, it'll probably improve quite a bit. That seems pretty unusual to me. The only two manuals I know of that indicate a COAL of greater than 2.795 are Speer at 2.80 and Swift at 2.810. At the amount of jump in that Encore, you'd think TC made those things to be able to shoot 200 gr bullets. Not sure they would stabilize in a 1:10.

 

[bruce moulds]

or they throat with a separate reamer and went too deep.
bruce

 

[sgt_zim]

so do you reckon I could go ahead and go with 2.860" for COAL, or does this need to go back to the factory?

 

[bruce moulds]

being a single shot, rounds do not have to fit the mag.
you could buy a Hornady tool to measure coal to the lands, and experiment with coal on that basis.
bruce.

 

[sgt_zim]

ok. that'll work then. i already did a mild crimp on an empty and did the measurement.

I called TC, they said they wanted one of their smiths to measure it. Ain't sending it back to the factory.

 

[Scrumbag]

I've had good results with TAC in my .223 Rem with heavier (60 gr +) bullets.

Scrummy

 

[shootist~]

In discussing COL, some experienced reloaders will often ask if it's Just Touching or "Jammed In".

The Hornady Max COL tool is really good to have for the following reason:

Not all that long ago, I would split the sized case neck with a Dremel, partially seat a bullet then chamber to establish Max COL.

After going to the Hornady Tool, I found that one of my Max COL measurements was actually "Jammed In" by about .020".

 

[sgt_zim]

Thanks, @shootist~ , cognizant of that. No lands marks at all on the bullet, and tried it with a Hornady and a Speer. Don't know how hard the Speers are, but the jackets on eld-x are soft.