Alec Baldwin Movie Set Accident

[sgt_zim]

I am a follower of attorney Andrew Branca. Perhaps you will find this interesting.

This being an international forum it should be noted that laws and processes about this type of event obviously vary by country and in the US, by state.

Here in the US it's not a crime to be stupid (yet ) so I'm just waiting to see if anyone is actually charged with any crime.

I am not a lwayer but he is:
Legal Analysis: Alec Baldwin Situation Beginning to Look a Lot Like Manslaughter

EDIT: forgot to add that even if it's decided that Baldwin technically committed a crime, prosecutors here in the US have discretion as to whether to charge the person or enter into deals where the person charged pleads guilty to lesser charges.

Stupidity all on its own, no. When it rises to the level of culpable negligence, it is. Certainly not treated as seriously as recklessness and malice, but people do go to prison for it with some regularity.

 

[BigSteve57]

Stupidity all on its own, no. When it rises to the level of culpable negligence, it is. Certainly not treated as seriously as recklessness and malice, but people do go to prison for it with some regularity.

Agree 100%.

 

[Rubberhead]

Willfully pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is a long, long way from an "Accident"...

 

[sgt_zim]

Willfully pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is a long, long way from an "Accident"...

True statement. "Accident" is a euphemism for carelessness or negligence, and absolves of culpability.

 

[BigSteve57]

True statement. "Accident" is a euphemism for carelessness or negligence, and absolves of culpability.

True.
Whether accidental or not, this is a case involving some sort of manslaughter.
Again, I'm waiting to see if he's even charged.

But then there are always those pesky civil lawsuits. If he's not charged or is charged, tried and found not guilty I would guess it would lessen the likelihood of civil suits succeeding and/or the damages from successful civil suits being reduced.

 

[Rubberhead]

True.
Whether accidental or not, this is a case involving some sort of manslaughter.
Again, I'm waiting to see if he's even charged.

But then there are always those pesky civil lawsuits. If he's not charged or is charged, tried and found not guilty I would guess it would lessen the likelihood of civil suits succeeding and/or the damages from successful civil suits being reduced.

Yep - Martha Steward and Dinesh D'souza spent time in prison but Hunter Biden and Alec Baldwin won't...

 

[Forrest Halley]

Still can't believe herb Parsons really shot a hole through a silver dollar in Winchester 73.

With a '71 chambered in.348 Winchester.

Can you imagine how hard it would be to find a silver dollar that has been hit with a lead slug?

Not only would the dollar be harder than that lead slug but once hit it would end up in never never land. I'd also wonder if a lead slug would punch a hole into it, but then it's the movies where anything is possible.

That's because it was a jacketed bullet. It would have to be a larger coin to provide the mass to resist the bullet. Lead slugs don't have a chance at this mainly because of the lower velocities they are fired at and the hardness difference.

Bullet will go right thru, even a 22 bullet will penetrate a Cooper penny.

No. There is insufficient resistance and the hardness difference of the metals. Not in the air. Maybe fixed to something on the ground. Or are you talking about a .22 center-fire with over 2000 fps muzzle velocity?

I shot a lot of pennies and nickels back 60 or so years ago with a 22 and not a single one blew through any of the coins.

They all just had good debts in them

Yes. I shot them with BB guns and that's a steel pellet at 1500 fps and no pass through, but it will punch through both sides of a #10 can at the lid. The .22 was not effective either.
Bob Munden used to shoot half dollars out of the air with a .45LC SAA and it just dented them.

 

[Randy F]

A movie set is still just a work place. Whether or not I'm at work or in my own back yard, if someone were to hand me a gun while telling me it's unloading or has blanks in it and I take that gun, point it at someone, pull the trigger, and someone dies as a result, there is no way I'm walking away from that.

Just because it's Hollywood where prop guns are used all the time does not excuse any of it in my mind. On the contrary, the industry should be even more stringent and diligent than most. Complacency has no place where firearms are involved no matter the industry, particularly in an industry where the whole idea is to point and shoot at people for entertainment!

So why should Hollywood get a pass?

You might expect such a tragedy in the traveling old west shows of old, but in the days of 3D printing and CG effects, why are they even utilizing a real weapon anyway?

Bookending the whole thing is an awful tragedy on one end and one of the industries biggest outspoken jerks on the other.

No one here is in any way downplaying the tragic death of this person and the sorrow of her family. It's horrible.

It's the other bookend of this incident that will get the most reaction here because of the absurdity of it all.
Infamously arguing with a flight attendant because he wasn't ready to shut off his phone as the plane was ready to roll and punching people in his way just goes to his character in the first place.

The irony and hypocrisy of an outspoken anti-gun nut that has gained fame and fortune in a large part because of guns who ends the life of another person through negligent use of a firearm leaves me shaking my head. How many of his movies did he NOT use a gun? If he's so anti-gun committed, why not refuse any part that calls for him to use one?

That is what has people riled up here.

The tragedy at the other end is not forgotten or placed any lower in it's significance. If anyone disputes that, I would simple recommend spending some time reading the forums here to understand that the majority here are fine upstanding caring people who happen to share a keen interest in hunting...with that comes conversations of other interests of all subjects. I think you'll find that empathy for victims here is assumed and most sincere unless otherwise stated.

My 2 cents.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Culpability and accountability are two words that scare the hell out of people nowadays. Getting someone to admit they've done wrong when there is a cost to them personally is a rare occasion. The leftist crowd wants to talk about how sorry they are that it happened, label it a tragedy, and say how bad they feel, but they're not interested in accepting blame for it.

You better believe there was a lot of story straightening going on and I hope that it comes out and burns them all. What are the chances that the person died due to the inaction of those more interested in self preservation? If only the wounded one will tell the truth about what happened. This my not be possible due to the total concentration of Kool aid in their blood.

 

[Randy F]

Culpability and accountability are two words that scare the hell out of people nowadays. Getting someone to admit they've done wrong when there is a cost to them personally is a rare occasion. The leftist crowd wants to talk about how sorry they are that it happened, label it a tragedy, and say how bad they feel, but they're not interested in accepting blame for it.

You better believe there was a lot of story straightening going on and I hope that it comes out and burns them all. What are the chances that the person died due to the inaction of those more interested in self preservation? If only the wounded one will tell the truth about what happened. This my not be possible due to the total concentration of Kool aid in their blood.

It would be interesting to hear the real story from him. Unfortunately I think you're correct in that, when the dust settles, he'll be too busy shopping for his own island to bother with truth. Hope we're wrong.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Anyone remember to accidental shooting by a police officer in a training exercise in Florida a few years ago? Similar situation where live ammo was used instead of blanks.

Former Punta Gorda officer who shot and killed librarian won't go to jail

As part of a plea deal, former Punta Gorda Police Lee Coel, who fatally shot retired librarian Mary Knowlton during a 2016 training exercise, will serve no jail time.

www.heraldtribune.com

 

[Randy F]

Anyone remember to accidental shooting by a police officer in a training exercise in Florida a few years ago? Similar situation where live ammo was used instead of blanks.

Former Punta Gorda officer who shot and killed librarian won't go to jail

As part of a plea deal, former Punta Gorda Police Lee Coel, who fatally shot retired librarian Mary Knowlton during a 2016 training exercise, will serve no jail time.

www.heraldtribune.com

Doesn't seem to be much difference does there?

 

[Rubberhead]

Doesn't seem to be much difference does there?

There's a ton of different. Baldwin didn't shoot a fellow actor during filming. He shot a cinematographer when the camera's weren't rolling.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Anyone remember to accidental shooting by a police officer in a training exercise in Florida a few years ago? Similar situation where live ammo was used instead of blanks.

Former Punta Gorda officer who shot and killed librarian won't go to jail

As part of a plea deal, former Punta Gorda Police Lee Coel, who fatally shot retired librarian Mary Knowlton during a 2016 training exercise, will serve no jail time.

www.heraldtribune.com

This was where wadcutters made it into the exercise as blank ammunition and was overlooked during the safety check.

I don't see a similarity here. One was a training exercise where engagement was expected and the other incident is clearly negligent homicide or manslaughter. Clearly don't let anyone point a gun at you without ballistic panels. It's just not worth the risk.

 

[Randy F]

There's a ton of different. Baldwin didn't shoot a fellow actor during filming. He shot a cinematographer when the camera's weren't rolling.

My point was about not verifying what’s in your weapon before doing anything at all. But I see where you’re going with it. Agreed.

 

[BigSteve57]

I found a nice compendium of the laws pertaining to manslaughter in New Mexico here:
2018 New Mexico Statutes Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses Article 2 - Homicide Section 30-2-3 - Manslaughter.

Section III relates to involuntary manslaughter.

I found section V, jury instructions, particularly interesting:
Criminal negligence instruction. — A showing of criminal negligence is required for a conviction of involuntary manslaughter, and it was fundamental error for the trial court to have not so instructed the jury. State v. Kirby, 1996-NMSC-069, 122 N.M. 609, 930 P.2d 144.

I don't know how criminal negligence is proven in the State of New Mexico or if the State will even try. My head hurts just from reading the above.

 

[flatwater bill]

There are a lot of firearm hunters on the site (and a few anti-trolls lurking always) If you're a hunter, make no mistake, Alec Baldwin hates you. Yes hates you. He has so stated loud and often. He has been a strong voice against us lawful hunters, while making millions off of gun violence in movies. As a vocal dem who hated Pres Trump and often lied about him, he will not be criminally punished. Looters and burners of 14 Federal buildings proved that. Only Jan 6th protestors will go to jail. Look in the news: man burns BLM sign, gets 5 months prison. Woman violently attacks man with MAGA hat, gets community service. This will be no different. Civil suits? Yup...plenty will follow. But the movie will have insurance, Baldwin will have insurance, and his net worth is estimated to be 60-100 million dollars, so a fine is meaningless. Some have expressed compassion toward Baldwin...on this site and publicly...I suggest they save that compassion for the grieving family of the young mother that he killed. With a gun. ......................FWB

 

[sgt_zim]

I found a nice compendium of the laws pertaining to manslaughter in New Mexico here:
2018 New Mexico Statutes Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses Article 2 - Homicide Section 30-2-3 - Manslaughter.

Section III relates to involuntary manslaughter.

I found section V, jury instructions, particularly interesting:
Criminal negligence instruction. — A showing of criminal negligence is required for a conviction of involuntary manslaughter, and it was fundamental error for the trial court to have not so instructed the jury. State v. Kirby, 1996-NMSC-069, 122 N.M. 609, 930 P.2d 144.

I don't know how criminal negligence is proven in the State of New Mexico or if the State will even try. My head hurts just from reading the above.

In most US law (not sure about Louisiana), the DAs and judges apply "the reasonable person" rule.

Would a reasonable person have been able to understand that what he was doing was wrong and potentially dangerous? If "the reasonable man" would have reached that conclusion (according to DA, judge, and ultimately jury), then it is a case of negligence or recklessness.

 

[Nyati]

I have been a consultant with a Spanish TV producer. On our sets, by law, all guns are modified, barrels are obstructed, and only 8mm blanks can be chambered.

An official armourer is the only person on the set who may physically handle the guns, until he hands them to the actors for the scene.

 

[shootist~]

Affidavit: Gun on film set was not properly checked​

Affidavit: Gun on film set was not properly checked

Investigators believe real bullet was fired from revolver

www.abqjournal.com

Above is the link to the online version of the local (Albuquerque, NM) newspaper article that appeared in this morning's paper. It's a pretty good summary of the entire Cluster F*** that resulted in the tragic death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins .

Bear in mind the Abq Journal is a typically liberal leaning newspaper in a blue state.
Their spin (IMO), seems to be: Not to point any fingers at the guy that pulled the trigger.