Ammo issue or rifle issue?

[TheDoubleD]

Was the ammo that misfired by any chance Hornady Custom Lite reduce recoil ammunition?

A couple of years I was sighting in my Wife's new Winchester model 70 Super Grade in 7-08 using Hornaday Customlite, Out the first 10 rounds 6 failed to fire. From the range I called Hornady and ask if there was a known issue or recall on this ammo. The tech who answered the phone, said, no there was no issue with the ammo. He did say however if I would point the muzzle straight up in the air and then slowly lower the barrel, the ammo would fire every time.

I could not believe what he told me and ask him to repeat his instruction and he said the same thing again, " point the muzzle straight up and slowly lower the barrel and then shoot.

Back in the olden days target shooting this something we did rifle shooting with light loads cast bullet shooting. In then scenario, that instruction would not be unreasonable.

But with hunting ammunition? A asked that question for hunting he said the same thing again. I could not believe what I was hearing.

I was not very happy when I got off the phone. But I wondered, so for the remaining 10 rounds I did just that, pointe the muzzle straight and lowered the - all 10 fired.

That was a bit uncomfortable, but when I got home I pulled the 6 rounds that misfired and all 6 primers had fired. The powder had not ignited. Some of it was scorched, but it did not fire . Now that was scary.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Was the ammo that misfired by any chance Hornady Custom Lite reduce recoil ammunition?

A couple of years I was sighting in my Wife's new Winchester model 70 Super Grade in 7-08 using Hornaday Customlite, Out the first 10 rounds 6 failed to fire. From the range I called Hornady and ask if there was a known issue or recall on this ammo. The tech who answered the phone, said, no there was no issue with the ammo. He did say however if I would point the muzzle straight up in the air and then slowly lower the barrel, the ammo would fire every time.

I could not believe what he told me and ask him to repeat his instruction and he said the same thing again, " point the muzzle straight up and slowly lower the barrel and then shoot.

Back in the olden days target shooting this something we did rifle shooting with light loads cast bullet shooting. In then scenario, that instruction would not be unreasonable.

But with hunting ammunition? A asked that question for hunting he said the same thing again. I could not believe what I was hearing.

I was not very happy when I got off the phone. But I wondered, so for the remaining 10 rounds I did just that, pointe the muzzle straight and lowered the - all 10 fired.

That was a bit uncomfortable, but when I got home I pulled the 6 rounds that misfired and all 6 primers had fired. The powder had not ignited. Some of it was scorched, but it did not fire . Now that was scary.

Haha yeah that is terrifying!

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Haha yeah that is terrifying!

Oh, it was not reduced recoil. Just regular outfitter CX

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Quick update, I’m a Winchester fan for life now. Even more than before. They are sending a whole new recoil spring/firing pin assembly. And a mag spring as well just because I mentioned it could be a bit tighter. Awesome customer service.

I also spoke with Hornady and there is no recall or known issue with the outfitter 30-06 ammo. I spoke with Shawn and he was very helpful and said to keep him updated with any further issues after I try the rest of the box now that the pin assembly has been cleaned.

He said sometimes once you have hit the primer, even if you hit it harder with the round that didn’t fire, it still won’t go off because of something that was crushed when it was hit lightly the first time.

Anyway. Both companies have been great.

 

[Philip Glass]

Nice gun! Maybe try even more manufacturers and see what happens? I hope you can figure it out.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Nice gun! Maybe try even more manufacturers and see what happens? I hope you can figure it out.

Definitely will. And thank you! I’m looking forward to possibly putting it to work on some hogs and deer next weekend.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I think this one is a 2024 rifle from Portugal so not sure about FN? Either way this is good to know and I’ll see if Midway has what I need.

That’s an FN rifle. Try Midwest gun works. I see you have a whole new assembly coming but a spare wouldn’t be a bad idea.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I picked up a Winchester super grade in 30-06 and put the first rounds down range this weekend.

I had two Ammo brands with me on day 1. The factory Federal Terminal Ascent shot great and functioned 100%. I had another big name brand that had two out of 6 that did not go off. (Thought maybe the rifle was having light strikes because the primers were not hit really deeply).

I went back this morning and shot a whole box of Remington Core Lokt without issue. Then shot some more Federal and it was great.

I field stripped and cleaned the bolt last night thinking maybe that was the issue but when I tried the two rounds that didn’t fire again, they still did not go off.

I think these days ammo issues from the main manufacturers are rare so not sure what to think.

Would you just shoot Federal and Remington and consider the rifle good to go? Or would you send the rifle to Winchester to get checked out?

Thanks!

@Bwgunslinger
A mate bought five boxes of a big name ammo in 308 a a very reasonable price.
Never had an issue with the rifle in the past. Everything fired and went well.
The new ammo have 10 misfires in the first box.
We tried the ones that didn't go bang in my sons Howa 308. Still no bang.
He took the lot back to the gun shop for a refund. Which fortunately they had no worries with.
Bob

 

[Bwgunslinger]

@Bwgunslinger
A mate bought five boxes of a big name ammo in 308 a a very reasonable price.
Never had an issue with the rifle in the past. Everything fired and went well.
The new ammo have 10 misfires in the first box.
We tried the ones that didn't go bang in my sons Howa 308. Still no bang.
He took the lot back to the gun shop for a refund. Which fortunately they had no worries with.
Bob

Ouch! It’s one thing when the worst that can happen is a deer or a hog gets away. But there are some guys up north and abroad that are really in trouble if that click happens at the wrong moment.

I will be leaning into reloading after the experiences shared on here!

 

[TheDoubleD]

Oh, it was not reduced recoil. Just regular outfitter CX

Did you pull the ammo apart and see if the primer had fired?

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Did you pull the ammo apart and see if the primer had fired?

No Sir, I have not done that yet. There was zero sound of any ignition and I am not really sure what to look for. Might be able to do this if I get the bullet puller that my dad has at his house.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

No Sir, I have not done that yet. There was zero sound of any ignition and I am not really sure what to look for. Might be able to do this if I get the bullet puller that my dad has at his house.

Please do not use an inertia bullet puller. My reloading manual cautions against using them for rounds that failed to fire. Apparently they can go off in the puller. If it’s a collet puller by all means go ahead.

 

[Puddle]

Yup. I stopped using an inertia bullet puller quite a while ago. Instead, I use a Grip-n-Pull in a simple
press.

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Please do not use an inertia bullet puller. My reloading manual cautions against using them for rounds that failed to fire. Apparently they can go off in the puller. If it’s a collet puller by all means go ahead.

That would be code brown lol. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[TheDoubleD]

No Sir, I have not done that yet. There was zero sound of any ignition and I am not really sure what to look for. Might be able to do this if I get the bullet puller that my dad has at his house.

Misfires, al you hear is normally is the sound of the firing pin.

While proof reading this, another quick check came to mind . Before pulling bullets, compare misfired cartridge with and unfired cartridge. Sometime but not always the primer firing will push the bullet out a bit, making it slightly longer the unfired

If you have a reloading press, put the cartridge in a shell holder and with no dies in the press and run the ram all the way to the top. Grab the projectile with a pair of pliers, grab the bullet hard, not the case neck, Pull the ram down pulling the pliers against the top the press then pop the handle with palm of your hand to pull the bullet.

Look at the base of the bullet for carbon. If there is carbon, most likely the primer fired.

Dump the powder out and look at it. Is it uniform in color, or is some it discolored? Discolored, then most likely the primer fired.

Shine a light down the inside the case, are the interior walls darkened or carbon stained. Then most likely the primer fired and the powder did not ignite.

New ammunition unfired should have clean interior shiny walls.

Look at the flash hole hole in the interior of the case, do you see carbon, if so most likely the primer fired.

Lastly make sure you still have your safety glasses on, screw in you decapping (sizer) die. Place a rag at the bottom of the depriming channel of the ram and slowly push to the primer out of the case. When it comes out of the case, examine the primer and see if it fired-look for soot-carbon.

If the primer unfired, all that could mean is the ammo has hard primers.

I have been reloading for over 50 years and gunsmith for over 40 years. In my experience a gun that misfires with one brand of ammo and not another is probably dealing with hard primers. Ammunition issues.

If it misfires with all brands of ammunition it usually is the gun. New factory guns seldom, rarely misfire because of the gun. Don't remember any. What I do recall on new factory guns having issues brought in for me to fix, clear "finger prints" of Bubba the neighbor next door having been helping adjust the gun.

But from what the OP, Bwgunslinger is reporting, if this gun came in my shop back in the day I would be looking at ammunition first, gun last.

​

 

[7x57Guy]

I picked up a Winchester super grade in 30-06 and put the first rounds down range this weekend.

I had two Ammo brands with me on day 1. The factory Federal Terminal Ascent shot great and functioned 100%. I had another big name brand that had two out of 6 that did not go off. (Thought maybe the rifle was having light strikes because the primers were not hit really deeply).

I went back this morning and shot a whole box of Remington Core Lokt without issue. Then shot some more Federal and it was great.

I field stripped and cleaned the bolt last night thinking maybe that was the issue but when I tried the two rounds that didn’t fire again, they still did not go off.

I think these days ammo issues from the main manufacturers are rare so not sure what to think.

Would you just shoot Federal and Remington and consider the rifle good to go? Or would you send the rifle to Winchester to get checked out?

Thanks!

I’m thinking you have an ammo problem. Like others have said, just roll with the Federal or Remington. If the rifle goes through this season without any issues, you’ll probably be fine to say it was your unnamed ammo, at least the lot number you happen to have.

 

[rookhawk]

I picked up a Winchester super grade in 30-06 and put the first rounds down range this weekend.

I had two Ammo brands with me on day 1. The factory Federal Terminal Ascent shot great and functioned 100%. I had another big name brand that had two out of 6 that did not go off. (Thought maybe the rifle was having light strikes because the primers were not hit really deeply).

I went back this morning and shot a whole box of Remington Core Lokt without issue. Then shot some more Federal and it was great.

I field stripped and cleaned the bolt last night thinking maybe that was the issue but when I tried the two rounds that didn’t fire again, they still did not go off.

I think these days ammo issues from the main manufacturers are rare so not sure what to think.

Would you just shoot Federal and Remington and consider the rifle good to go? Or would you send the rifle to Winchester to get checked out?

Thanks!

I'd look on the web and see if you can get an improved custom spring for your rifle. If its a bit sharper on the striker, or the spring has a bit more oomph, it may alleviate the problem. Obviously, discontinue using that ammo that is questionable, but your gun is warning you it may have a problem as well. $35 for an aftermarket spring would give you some additional insurance.

 

[rookhawk]

P.S. - I would also take the bolt apart when installing the new spring and I'd degrease the bolt body thoroughly. I would then swab it with kroil. Sometimes a thick grease is just enough to slow the velocity of the firing pin to reduce momentum.

Do all three:

-New ammo
-Thoroughly cleaned bolt
-After market spring

 

[Bwgunslinger]

Misfires, al you hear is normally is the sound of the firing pin.

While proof reading this, another quick check came to mind . Before pulling bullets, compare misfired cartridge with and unfired cartridge. Sometime but not always the primer firing will push the bullet out a bit, making it slightly longer the unfired

If you have a reloading press, put the cartridge in a shell holder and with no dies in the press and run the ram all the way to the top. Grab the projectile with a pair of pliers, grab the bullet hard, not the case neck, Pull the ram down pulling the pliers against the top the press then pop the handle with palm of your hand to pull the bullet.

Look at the base of the bullet for carbon. If there is carbon, most likely the primer fired.

Dump the powder out and look at it. Is it uniform in color, or is some it discolored? Discolored, then most likely the primer fired.

Shine a light down the inside the case, are the interior walls darkened or carbon stained. Then most likely the primer fired and the powder did not ignite.

New ammunition unfired should have clean interior shiny walls.

Look at the flash hole hole in the interior of the case, do you see carbon, if so most likely the primer fired.

Lastly make sure you still have your safety glasses on, screw in you decapping (sizer) die. Place a rag at the bottom of the depriming channel of the ram and slowly push to the primer out of the case. When it comes out of the case, examine the primer and see if it fired-look for soot-carbon.

If the primer unfired, all that could mean is the ammo has hard primers.

I have been reloading for over 50 years and gunsmith for over 40 years. In my experience a gun that misfires with one brand of ammo and not another is probably dealing with hard primers. Ammunition issues.

If it misfires with all brands of ammunition it usually is the gun. New factory guns seldom, rarely misfire because of the gun. Don't remember any. What I do recall on new factory guns having issues brought in for me to fix, clear "finger prints" of Bubba the neighbor next door having been helping adjust the gun.

But from what the OP, Bwgunslinger is reporting, if this gun came in my shop back in the day I would be looking at ammunition first, gun last.

​

Thank you for the detailed info and experience. I will pull those bullets when I’m at my dad’s house because he has the press with a die you can tighten and then pull it that way.

Then we can do the inspection you described and check those boxes.

Remington and Federal are doing great so far. Hoping to get back to the range soon and put some more rounds through the rifle.

 

[rookhawk]

Thank you for the detailed info and experience. I will pull those bullets when I’m at my dad’s house because he has the press with a die you can tighten and then pull it that way.

Then we can do the inspection you described and check those boxes.

Remington and Federal are doing great so far. Hoping to get back to the range soon and put some more rounds through the rifle.

I did some checking and there are no aftermarket improved springs for the post-2008 FN made model 70s. So going from a 20lb to a 30lb spring is a non-starter.

So you've got the ammo issue you're sorting now, and you've got the potential that you have grease in the bolt that you need to get out to speed up lock time. Taking your bolt apart and cleaning the dickens out of it is zero cost and may remedy some or all of your problem. Buy a bottle of Kroil as a lubricant, it will speed that firing pin up considerably.