Anyone use Berger VLD on plains game?

[Jonathan Kashouty]

Berger VLDs in a 28 NOS will drop all PG in it's tracks.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@plehman777 Spot on. Define the mission and use the bullet to suit. Good that you were successful with the ABLRs. I tried them but the Bergers shot more accurately.

 

[gillettehunter]

This thread is several years old. Here is a post I made a couple of years ago on Berger 180's:
I will start this with a few observations. All bullets are designed with a use in mind. There is no one size fits all in bullets. I have no problems with other bullets. I have taken Barnes TTSX's and Nosler accubonds to Africa. Both have served me well. This last trip I took Bergers. I usually get extremely good accuracy and good results with them. Bergers are often used in longer range hunting and are designed to expand reliably at lower velocities. If you plan to use them I will strongly suggest that you heed the next observations:
1) Use heavy for caliber bullets. I used 180 grainers in my 7mm SAUM. If you use a faster bigger .28 caliber cartridges then use their 195 grainers. In .30 caliber use the 215 grain hybrid. Easy to load and deadly effective on game. In a .26 caliber use the 140's or 156's. Apply the same to other calibers. 180 Gr Berger in a .300 WM is a disaster looking for a place to happen! Use the 210 or 215.
2) ALWAYS check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.
3) Do not expect reliable expansion at over 3000 fps. You are more likely to get over expansion at higher velocities along with poor penetration. My SAUM runs the 180's at 2900 fps. That is about right. My .30 Nosler runs the 215's at 2990. Works well too. I would not run them at 3200 fps and expect reliable close range expansion.
On to the point of this post. 16 animals of assorted sizes were taken with my SAUM and the 180 gr bullet's. They are as follows:
1) Cape eland cow at 469 yards. Hit slightly further back than wanted. Down and dead quickly.
2)Cape eland bull at 511 yds. Heart shot. Dead in less than 20 yds. Pretty impressive.
3)Springbock at 175-200 yds. Broadside shot slightly back and high. Down in its tracks.
4)Duiker spotlighted at maybe 40 yds quartering to me. High shoulder down in his tracks.
5)Vaal Rhebuck at 313 yds. Hit way back top of back. Spine hit. Down in his tracks.
6) Klipspringer at 269 yds. A little far back and high. Down and done in place.
7)Blesbuck cow at 130 yds? Back a little and a little high. Down immediately with no fuss.
8) Bull Livingston eland. Huge animal. 75 yds. First hit was high shoulder. Sraggered him. Went perhaps 75 yds and He appeared to be staggering when I hit him again up high mid body which put him down.
9)Hartebeest cow at 200 yds. Quartering slightly to me. Hit mid way up behind the shoulder. Went 40-50 yds.
10)2nd Hartebeest cow. Broadside at 80-90 yds. Hit behind shoulder. Went 30 yds or so.
11)Hartebeest bull at 150-170 yds quartering to me. Low shoulder into the heart. Went maybe 60 yds.
12) Bushbuck at 200 yds or a little more. Hit a little high behind the shoulder. Went perhaps 30 yds.
Mikes animals as follows:
1)Waterbuck at 150 yds broadside. Hit behind shoulder. Went about 70 yds.
2)Puku at 80-90 yds perhaps. Quartering hard away. Hit in front of hind quarter lining up on far shoulder. Went about 40 yds.
3)Bushbuck at 120 yds. Broadside. Behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
4)Lechwe at 230 yds. Behind shoulder half way up. Down in its tracks. Kicked twice.
I will add the following NA animals for additional consideration:
A) 6.5-06 w/ 140 grain bullet. Bighorn ram at 100 yds. Broadside. Hit back too far. Got liver. Went perhaps 100 yds.
B) 180 in the SAUM. Antelope at 130 yds. A little high behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
C)180 in SAUM Whitetail doe. 75 yds facing me. Down in her tracks.
D) 180 in SAUM WT buck. 300 yds. 1 shot in leg and one mid body. Went perhaps 30 yds.
E) 215 gr in .30 Nosler. Bull moose at just over 100 yds. Quartering to me. In front of shoulder. Went less than 20 yds.
F) 6.5 SS w/ 156 gr. Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Quartering away. High behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
G) 6.5 w/ 156 gr Pronghorn buck. Broadside. Hit slightly low behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
H) 6.5 w/ 156 gr. Pronghorn doe at 325 yds. Behind shoulder a touch high. Down in her tracks.

There is also an ongoing thread right now where the hunter is using a 156 Berger in a 6.5 PRC with exceptional success.
I just went to Tanzania. My most expensive hunt ever. I used my SAUM with the 180's. I have a long report, but to sum it up the Bergers worked fine and killed my animals very dead.
Bruce

 

[Doug3006]

I haven’t used Berger bullets in Africa. I have used them on Mule Deer and Whitetails. My 7mm Remington Magnum shoots 140 grains in one ragged hole at 100 yards. They are basically explosive in smaller bodied game like deer. In my experience they penetrate a few inches and then blow up, liquifying the lungs. Much like Nosler Ballistic Tips. My shots on game using Berger’s have all been over 200 yards. I wonder if the problem with wounding animals is more prevalent when the game is closer? Anyway, I wouldn’t use Berger’s for African game. I don’t buy the argument that African game is harder to put down pound for pound. I do think Barnes TSX bullets are as accurate and do a better job on the bigger animals.

 

[JMM]

You need to hunt with me. I'll show you how Bergers are supposed to work. They are a lung shot bullet, not a shoulder or bone breaking bullet. Those that screw up with them don't know how they are supposed to work, i.e, double lung, hand grenade. Been using them over seven years on seven hunts in RSA, Killed blue wildebeest to warthogs with them, at least 100 animals. Never lost an animal. 95% were DRT or walked a few steps and keeled over. Ranges were 100 to 700 yards. They perform as advertised if you use them properly, easy lung shots. The 300WM guys you referred to
had other issues, namely poor shot placement. It wasn't the bullet. I'll bet you never used them either.

Simple answer is why limit yourself to one type of shot? I have shot hundreds of game animals in Africa, all culls. I sometimes have the luxury of waiting for a broadside shot that can be placed perfectly in the lungs. Bergers work fine for that and I have culled a lot of whitetails in West Texas experimenting with them. Trophy hunters rarely have that luxury. My recommendation is to use a bullet that works broadside, quartering away, quartering to, facing, running away. A-frames, Sciroccos, Partitions, Accubonds are much better in my opinion as a culler and elk/whitetail guide.

If you like the Bergers, carry on. Lots of game have been killed with them.

 

[gillettehunter]

I haven’t used Berger bullets in Africa. I have used them on Mule Deer and Whitetails. My 7mm Remington Magnum shoots 140 grains in one ragged hole at 100 yards. They are basically explosive in smaller bodied game like deer. In my experience they penetrate a few inches and then blow up, liquifying the lungs. Much like Nosler Ballistic Tips. My shots on game using Berger’s have all been over 200 yards. I wonder if the problem with wounding animals is more prevalent when the game is closer? Anyway, I wouldn’t use Berger’s for African game. I don’t buy the argument that African game is harder to put down pound for pound. I do think Barnes TSX bullets are as accurate and do a better job on the bigger animals.

At 7mm speeds the 140 is going to be explosive. In my post above I wrote about heavy for caliber bullets. Use the 180's or 195's. Keep them under 3000 fps and they will exit on deer and antelope. Off the shoulder and they'll exit on elk. Longer ranges and they'll often exit with a shoulder shot.
I like the TTSX's and have used them too. I like the BC's of the Berger's better. It extends your available range to shoot. Plus I also like their accuracy. I think I had exits on every animal I took this last trip to Africa.
What it boils down to is use what you have confidence in. Put it in the heart/lungs and the animal dies. What I don't like is when people badmouth a product that they have failed to use in a manner that allows it to work properly. Good hunting to all.
Bruce

 

[Tra3]

I also am a fan of the nosler ABLR bullets. Ditto for barnes. I would like to move to lead free, but I’m using up ammo to get to that point.

I agree with everything @gillettehunter has stated above and it accurately reflects my experience. Under 100 yards the Berger’s really ruin meat in a deer, but they do some emphatic killing. The 7 mag is not a caliber for a steeply quartering away shot, it just doesn’t have the power to send a bullet through all the paunch, so I don’t take that shot.
A .375 H&H is a different story, I think it would go end to end on an elk with a Barnes 300 grain (but I haven’t tried)
One only learns caliber limitations by heeding advice or learning the hard way. I’ve done some of both. For wide open elk country, I think the Berger is great. I wouldn’t use it to hunt deer in the Minnesota woods though, too much destruction at 30-40 yards. That is better for an arrow or a much smaller caliber than a 7 mag.

 

[Jonathan Kashouty]

All the bullets mentioned on this thread will do a great job on PG animals. I do like Barnes, Swift, ABLR, and Berger. My Bergers are just more accurate in my rifle so I go with shot placement and shooting within my skill limits.

 

[Totoro]

Dang, this thread is a great read; I've read it twice and it makes a lot of sense.

For one, I shoot Bergers for hogs to elk.

However, when I get to Africa me thinks the Accubond is gonna be my Huckleberry for PG.