AUSTRALIA: When You're Under-gunned But Bullet Placement Is Everything...

[Badboymelvin]

Hey guys,
It's been a while since I posted on here due to work commitments so I thought as my first post back in a while, I'd kick it off with a hunt report
The other week saw myself in the bush hunting the elusive Sambar deer.
I had found myself a nice spot overlooking a clearing and instead of my usual approach of trying to stalk them, I sat and waited to see if anything wandered in the clearing.
I waited for a couple of hours and it was ending up being a quiet morning with no Sambar spotted - but I didn't mind as it was just great to be back out hunting.
Just as I thought nothing was going to happen, suddenly a herd of Fallow appeared from the thick scrub.
They wandered behind some bush temporarily out of view, but as they didn't know I was here and they weren't spooked I assumed they would just casually walk out the other end in a short time.
I assumed right and in about 10min they slowly appeared from the other side of the scrub not the slightest bit alarmed.
As I'd seen no other deer all morning, I decided to bag a Fallow.
I left my spot and quietly stalked to about 80m from the feeding herd and picked one out that was feeding out on its own.
As I took aim, my deer suddenly looked up and saw me. I quickly fired and temporarily lost sight of it under the recoil but the shot felt good as I reloaded.
On this hunt I was using my Zastava M70 in .458 Winchester Magnum stoked with the 450gn Woodleigh Hydro that I was trailing for NT Firearms Gove.
These hydro's had a chronographed MV of 2300fps and were a formidable load.
As I walked towards where I had last seen the deer I was looking for a sign of a hit - and I quickly found it.
On the ground was a big patch of hair and as I walked a couple of steps past this patch I quickly saw the downed deer.
It had travelled approximately 10m before expiring.
I had hit the deer not quite centre of the chest and not surprising to anyone the bullet exited, just behind the ribs.
One thing that was interesting was between the entry and exit holes, the hair was missing along the path of the bullet. I had never seen this before.
So, in the end while it didn't end up being much of test of the bullet, it was an enjoyable hunt and I left with plenty of fresh venison for the freezer.
Cheers,
Russ

 

[crs]

I shoot Fallow here in Texas occasionally for meat, but last week it was Blackbuck, also for meat. My first shot at game with my 45-90 rifle and I nailed it at 100 yards. Big gun, little target, but very good eating meat.
Oh yes, my son shot two with his .308.
Since BBM showed a picture of his ammo, so will I:
Oopsie - damn pic hosting site on Cloudfare network failed.

45.90 (.458 2.4) cartridge with North Fork 350 SS at close to 2200 fps.

Will know velocity for sure soon as son just bought a barrel mounted chrony we can shoot at the rifle range.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I would hate too see you over-gunned. The missing hair has me as confused as you.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hey guys,

It's been a while since I posted on here due to work commitments so I thought as my first post back in a while, I'd kick it off with a hunt report

The other week saw myself in the bush hunting the elusive Sambar deer.
I had found myself a nice spot overlooking a clearing and instead of my usual approach of trying to stalk them, I sat and waited to see if anything wandered in the clearing.

I waited for a couple of hours and it was ending up being a quiet morning with no Sambar spotted - but I didn't mind as it was just great to be back out hunting.

Just as I thought nothing was going to happen, suddenly a herd of Fallow appeared from the thick scrub.
They wandered behind some bush temporarily out of view, but as they didn't know I was here and they weren't spooked I assumed they would just casually walk out the other end in a short time.
I assumed right and in about 10min they slowly appeared from the other side of the scrub not the slightest bit alarmed.

As I'd seen no other deer all morning, I decided to bag a Fallow.
I left my spot and quietly stalked to about 80m from the feeding herd and picked one out that was feeding out on its own.
As I took aim, my deer suddenly looked up and saw me. I quickly fired and temporarily lost sight of it under the recoil but the shot felt good as I reloaded.

On this hunt I was using my Zastava M70 in .458 Winchester Magnum stoked with the 450gn Woodleigh Hydro that I was trailing for NT Firearms Gove.
These hydro's had a chronographed MV of 2300fps and were a formidable load.

As I walked towards where I had last seen the deer I was looking for a sign of a hit - and I quickly found it.
On the ground was a big patch of hair and as I walked a couple of steps past this patch I quickly saw the downed deer.
It had travelled approximately 10m before expiring.

I had hit the deer not quite centre of the chest and not surprising to anyone the bullet exited, just behind the ribs.
One thing that was interesting was between the entry and exit holes, the hair was missing along the path of the bullet. I had never seen this before.

So, in the end while it didn't end up being much of test of the bullet, it was an enjoyable hunt and I left with plenty of fresh venison for the freezer.

Cheers,

Russ

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@Badboymelvin
Russ a bit over gunned in an understatement but dead is dead. That's brilliant performance from the hydro but what were the internals like.
I was thinking of trying the hydros in the Whelen at 2,900fps on scrub bulls but I chose the 310gn Woodleigh RNSP.
Bob

 

[GeoffP]

@Badboymelvin
Russ a bit over gunned in an understatement but dead is dead. That's brilliant performance from the hydro but what were the internals like.
I was thinking of trying the hydros in the Whelen at 2,900fps on scrub bulls but I chose the 310gn Woodleigh RNSP.
Bob

Just to jump in with my 2 bob’s worth on Woodleigh Hydros. I used a 225gn hydro in my Whelan to take a zebra at about 160m. They were leaving the rifle at about 2650fps and shoot to the same point of impact as Woodleigh 225gn pps that I normally use. The zebra was the most emphatic kill I have seen, it went straight down as if its legs were cut from under it. I was off sticks and the PH called the shot as bit high (spine shot) and turned out he was correct. For this reason I thought the zebra would require a finishing shot. It didn’t and I suspect it was dead before it hit the ground. Unfortunately I didn’t think to go with the skinners to find out the exact bullet path and internal damage. I just know it was close if not through the spine. Cheers

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Just to jump in with my 2 bob’s worth on Woodleigh Hydros. I used a 225gn hydro in my Whelan to take a zebra at about 160m. They were leaving the rifle at about 2650fps and shoot to the same point of impact as Woodleigh 225gn pps that I normally use. The zebra was the most emphatic kill I have seen, it went straight down as if its legs were cut from under it. I was off sticks and the PH called the shot as bit high (spine shot) and turned out he was correct. For this reason I thought the zebra would require a finishing shot. It didn’t and I suspect it was dead before it hit the ground. Unfortunately I didn’t think to go with the skinners to find out the exact bullet path and internal damage. I just know it was close if not through the spine. Cheers

@GeoffP
Mate you need to get some CFE223 and make the Whelen sing a different tune.
You will be able to get the 225gn Woodleighs and hydros up to 2,900fps. Now that turns the humble Whelen into a different beast instead of 2,600fps. You will notice the difference.
Yes it can be done safely. The 250s will do 2,700fps.
Bob

 

[PCC600]

I owned a cattle / sheep/ forestry operation inTasmania for many years. Fallow deer were a major problem . When I first bought the place I had permits to take 400 per year , this rose fairly quickly to 600 then 800 and eventually 1000 per annum. I also let shooter groups onto the property but they were only interested in stag heads. I wanted to get rid of all deer so only hunted does . They eat the same amount as a sheep . I shot countless numbers with a BRNO VZ 24 rifle in 7mm Mauser . Used 160 grain bullets and an old Pecar 4x fixed magnification scope . Shots ranged from 20 to 150 yards. Mostly at lower end of this scale . I could find them easily in early morning or late afternoon either sunning or just emerging from the 2750 acres of eucalyptus plantation on the farm . Only about a 500 yard walk from the house. Also shot a lot over spot lights at night .
Love my big bore rifles but a 458 is a lot of gun for a little fallow . Incidentally we also had quite a few white ones . Have never taken a Sambar . Planning to try for one in Victoria next year .

 

[Desperatezulu]

I had hit the deer not quite centre of the chest and not surprising to anyone the bullet exited, just behind the ribs.
One thing that was interesting was between the entry and exit holes, the hair was missing along the path of the bullet. I had never seen this before.

Interesting - 'hydrostatic shock' around the bullet path through the animal perhaps? The bullet path appears quite close to the surface/skin? It's a big bullet and the cavity nose will be creating a big shockwave and cavity as it passes through the animal (think of the ballistic gel tests with the temperorary cavity created).
Maybe the fallow was moulting so the fur came off more easily?
Pure speculation though. I have never witnessed this before either.

 

[CBH Australia]

Overgunned mate. The .458wm both lifted and shifted the Fallow and somehow the hair loss is in the same vicinity so it has something to do with it. Maybe Hydrostatic shock has more Ooomphh than first thought.
I hear you have settled on the .243 for hunting Fallow, excellent choice.

 

[GeoffP]

@GeoffP
Mate you need to get some CFE223 and make the Whelen sing a different tune.
You will be able to get the 225gn Woodleighs and hydros up to 2,900fps. Now that turns the humble Whelen into a different beast instead of 2,600fps. You will notice the difference.
Yes it can be done safely. The 250s will do 2,700fps.
Bob

Thanks Bob,

I had never heard of CFE223 powder until recently and I see that Whelan users are obtaining some impressive velocities with it and I may try it one day out of curiosity. However, I generally don't like long shots at game, with 221 metres being my longest to date. At 2,650fps the 225gn Woodleigh PP & Hydro shoot flat to the same point of impact at around 225m with moderate recoil in my 8.8lb rifle, both on and off the bench.

Cheers

Geoff

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks Bob,

I had never heard of CFE223 powder until recently and I see that Whelan users are obtaining some impressive velocities with it and I may try it one day out of curiosity. However, I generally don't like long shots at game, with 221 metres being my longest to date. At 2,650fps the 225gn Woodleigh PP & Hydro shoot flat to the same point of impact at around 225m with moderate recoil in my 8.8lb rifle, both on and off the bench.

Cheers

Geoff

@GeoffP
You won't find any CFE223 in Australia mate unless you come to my house. Whe I found out they were no longer importing it I bought every bottle I could get my hands on, 20 in total.
2208 works great in the Whelen.
The Nosler load of 60.5gns (I use 61 for simplicity) gives both the 225gn accubond and woodliegh over 2,800fps but the CFE223 gives me over 2,900fps.
I see from your profile you are from my old stomping ground. I'm originally from Wagga. My wife's cousin lived in your town and was a builder there for around 50 years. They just recently moved up to our area.
Bob

 

[HankBuck]

Hey guys,
It's been a while since I posted on here due to work commitments so I thought as my first post back in a while, I'd kick it off with a hunt report
The other week saw myself in the bush hunting the elusive Sambar deer.
I had found myself a nice spot overlooking a clearing and instead of my usual approach of trying to stalk them, I sat and waited to see if anything wandered in the clearing.
I waited for a couple of hours and it was ending up being a quiet morning with no Sambar spotted - but I didn't mind as it was just great to be back out hunting.
Just as I thought nothing was going to happen, suddenly a herd of Fallow appeared from the thick scrub.
They wandered behind some bush temporarily out of view, but as they didn't know I was here and they weren't spooked I assumed they would just casually walk out the other end in a short time.
I assumed right and in about 10min they slowly appeared from the other side of the scrub not the slightest bit alarmed.
As I'd seen no other deer all morning, I decided to bag a Fallow.
I left my spot and quietly stalked to about 80m from the feeding herd and picked one out that was feeding out on its own.
As I took aim, my deer suddenly looked up and saw me. I quickly fired and temporarily lost sight of it under the recoil but the shot felt good as I reloaded.
On this hunt I was using my Zastava M70 in .458 Winchester Magnum stoked with the 450gn Woodleigh Hydro that I was trailing for NT Firearms Gove.
These hydro's had a chronographed MV of 2300fps and were a formidable load.
As I walked towards where I had last seen the deer I was looking for a sign of a hit - and I quickly found it.
On the ground was a big patch of hair and as I walked a couple of steps past this patch I quickly saw the downed deer.
It had travelled approximately 10m before expiring.
I had hit the deer not quite centre of the chest and not surprising to anyone the bullet exited, just behind the ribs.
One thing that was interesting was between the entry and exit holes, the hair was missing along the path of the bullet. I had never seen this before.
So, in the end while it didn't end up being much of test of the bullet, it was an enjoyable hunt and I left with plenty of fresh venison for the freezer.
Cheers,
Russ
View attachment 463099View attachment 463100View attachment 463101View attachment 463102

Bad boy, I think the hair on the ground is from your “exit hole” and not related to missing hair on the hide —- that was there before the shot, I’ve seen many deer with similar missing patches of hair and especially early in the season....but also sometimes in late winter