Barnes Banded Solid

[jwp475]

As a handgun hunter my experience has shown that round nose bullets leave holes that do not bleed as well as the holes from flat point bullets.

 

[michael458]

In today's world where we have really good, controlled expansion bullets, like the Barnes TSX, TTSX, LRX or Swift A-Frames, are solids still required? We used solids when your other bullet offerings were mostly cup and core bullets that would blow apart.

We don't use solids because other bullet blow up or they are not good. Solids are the cheapest insurance policy you can buy, Solids can, and have saved the day many times..............

Conventional beliefs and thinking would dictate you use Solids for elephant, hippo and buffalo. There are those today that might be fooled into thinking that even for buffalo, solids are just not required.... I personally do not belong to that group.

Certainly no sane person would use conventional expanding bullets, or any trauma inflicting bullet on elephant.

Hippo on land, I like a solid for that, even though I have been forced once to use a trauma inflicting bullet, followed by solids, it worked out, but by choice I would have used nothing but solids.

Buffalo traditionally in years gone by, trauma inflicting or expanding bullet for that first shot, followed by solids. Some today believe that the conventional bullets, some of which you mention, are just so good these days, you don't need solids. I do not agree with that concept myself. With buffalo, after that first shot, if it is not DRT on the spot (and that is rare with buffalo) then its chaos and mayhem from the second that first shot is fired. If its a good shot, buffalo will hump and buck and run in some direction. There will be brush, trees, sticks limbs that will most likely be in the way, the second plus shots will not be like that first perfect shot, you may very well be shooting the south end of a north bound buffalo, and its a long way from one end to the other, and there is NO Trauma inflicting bullet or conventional expanding bullet that will penetrate from the ass end of a buffalo to its vitals, only a proper designed solid that will penetrate deep and straight can accomplish that mission.

Now of course you can be a ego driven newbie, and you can take that first shot with your perfect expanding bullet and just wait and see what happens..........After all, you are the best shot in todays world, and nothing can go wrong. You read all the right books, talked to all the right people and you obviously have everything under control, Right?............... Except for that damned little stick that was 5 feet in front of your target, that you did not see....... hmmmm......... or any number of a 1000 other scenarios that might make things go a little to one side or the other, what are you going to do now? You are so full of it, and just know that your Swift, X, Woodleigh or what have you is just so good, you did not even think about a solid, and now you have nothing that can solve your problem for you........... Oh well, you just lost a day in the field, or maybe you just lost your buffalo, or maybe worse, you got someone hurt or injured...........A good solid is good insurance and can save time, energy, dollars and even lives.........

I had always been traditional Expanding/trauma for first shot, and solids thereafter for buffalo. When I went to the field the first time with a prototype 50 B&M, using more conventional .500 caliber bullets available at the time, I decided it might be a good thing to backup some of these bullets with a solid of some sort. I had JD make up a few 400 gr Round Nose for that mission. Well it was a learning experience no doubt about it....... for all wildebeest, oryx, zebra, kudu and such animals, I used that little RN SOlid as backup, since I was not sure if those .500 caliber bullets at the time might fail, and I did not want to loose anything. Nor waste time, I was on a pure shooting/testing mission, I was not hunting, I was shooting........ I had tested everything before hand, so I got no real surprises with the conventional expanding, and I was using the same velocity that I had tested. But that sorry little RN SOlid did not do its job all the time, broadside shots on those animals did ok, but anything from the rear or the front would veer severely off course and many time exit 90 degrees, they were awful...... That is when I went to work on proper solids.

Speaking of conventional being so good......... many years ago I was in Zimbabwe with 458 Lott and 400 gr Woodleighs at or around 2400-2500 fps......... At 50 yards a nice impala stood, with its rear to me....... I took the shot, straight up the rear..... The poor thing look liked it nearly exploded from the rear, it was ugly, but it was not over, it was down of course, but the bullet did not make it to the vitals..... It had over expanded and did not penetrate enough. It was an ugly thing I will never forget, nor would I ever do again, not with an expanding bullet of any kind. Would a TSX or Swift made it, probably so........ but still, give me a solid, I know without doubt what that will do.

To each his own, from that early experience I started using solids to back up everything, not only buffalo, but everything larger than 250 lbs or so....... The thing is, things go wrong in the field, its not always the perfect shot like on the shooting range. I never quit shooting until the problem is solved, and then I shoot again anyway, or you are out of ammo, or you have no shot........ All my shots after #1 is going to be a solid, a properly designed solid, like we have been talking about, it might save the entire day of tracking, it might save the loss of an animal, or it might just save a hell of a lot more.

But to each their own, this is what I did, and what I adhere to now and in the future with any shooting endeavor I might undertake, you can do as you please.......

There are many many good reasons to have a Properly Designed Solid with you, and there are no good reasons not to..............

 

[TOBY458]

In today's world where we have really good, controlled expansion bullets, like the Barnes TSX, TTSX, LRX or Swift A-Frames, are solids still required? We used solids when your other bullet offerings were mostly cup and core bullets that would blow apart.

Solids for Elephant, Hippo on land and of course they work well for follow up shots on an outbound wounded buffalo. CEB Raptors, TSX, Northfork and Swift A Frame for everything else DG related. Just to name a few.

 

[michael458]

As a handgun hunter my experience has shown that round nose bullets leave holes that do not bleed as well as the holes from flat point bullets.

My Pal @jwp475 ..........we have been friend for 12-15 years or so. He is a very wise man, and probably the most proficient Handgun hunter shooter that I know, and has been there, done that, has the T'shirt. I have learned much from JP.

Which brings me to a handgun post I want to do.............

After we finished the Rifle Solids, CEB went on to do some handgun solids as well in some of the more popular handgun hunting cartridges, such as 45 Colt and 454 Casull............for example. They made a 300 gr Copper Solid......... But JWP complained and moaned and groaned the meplat size was too small, I had not measured, but just assumed it was also 67% meplat like the rifle #13s........ Many phone conversations and bickering back and forth, with not just JWP but some other prominent handgun hunters, they wanted a bigger Meplat....... I argued that the smaller 67% meplat would drive deeper, destroy more tissue, especially frontal and rear shots, most all broadside would exit most likely on most animals.......... and the bigger meplat would not penetrate as deep, destroying less tissue..... Their argument was that the bigger meplat would destroy more tissue up front, and hit harder....... Can't argue with that, because that is true, but you loose penetration with the bigger meplat...............This went on for months...............

I got CEB on the phone, and ordered 250 pieces of 300 gr Copper Solids with 80% meplat............We would solve this issue.......

They were really good looking bullets......

By using my stamping method to measure the meplat, the standard 300 gr is actually 70% meplat......

I had tested the Standard 300 CEB #13 before in my little Winchester lever gun.............and believe it did great.......for a handgun cartridge.......

From tests in past years with rifle, I was sure the 80% meplat would not penetrate as deep.... so we loaded up and went to work......

And here is what we learned............ The 70% meplat did indeed penetrate deeper........... the 80% Meplat did indeed penetrate less but it hit harder and destroyed more medium as well........

So JWP was Right.............. I was also right............ Who was MORE RIGHT? JWP will say he is more right, and I have to say, he might be, but I might say I am more right too............ HEH HEH....

I split the rest of those 80% meplats up between JWP and another handgun hunter and sent to them, I kept a few and I truly covet the few I kept and would only use those for very special circumstances because I know they will knock the crap out of anything they hit.................

 

[jwp475]

My Pal @jwp475 ..........we have been friend for 12-15 years or so. He is a very wise man, and probably the most proficient Handgun hunter shooter that I know, and has been there, done that, has the T'shirt. I have learned much from JP.

Which brings me to a handgun post I want to do.............

After we finished the Rifle Solids, CEB went on to do some handgun solids as well in some of the more popular handgun hunting cartridges, such as 45 Colt and 454 Casull............for example. They made a 300 gr Copper Solid......... But JWP complained and moaned and groaned the meplat size was too small, I had not measured, but just assumed it was also 67% meplat like the rifle #13s........ Many phone conversations and bickering back and forth, with not just JWP but some other prominent handgun hunters, they wanted a bigger Meplat....... I argued that the smaller 67% meplat would drive deeper, destroy more tissue, especially frontal and rear shots, most all broadside would exit most likely on most animals.......... and the bigger meplat would not penetrate as deep, destroying less tissue..... Their argument was that the bigger meplat would destroy more tissue up front, and hit harder....... Can't argue with that, because that is true, but you loose penetration with the bigger meplat...............This went on for months...............

I got CEB on the phone, and ordered 250 pieces of 300 gr Copper Solids with 80% meplat............We would solve this issue.......

View attachment 560872

They were really good looking bullets......

View attachment 560873

By using my stamping method to measure the meplat, the standard 300 gr is actually 70% meplat......

View attachment 560874

View attachment 560875


I had tested the Standard 300 CEB #13 before in my little Winchester lever gun.............and believe it did great.......for a handgun cartridge.......

View attachment 560871


From tests in past years with rifle, I was sure the 80% meplat would not penetrate as deep.... so we loaded up and went to work......

View attachment 560876

View attachment 560877
And here is what we learned............ The 70% meplat did indeed penetrate deeper........... the 80% Meplat did indeed penetrate less but it hit harder and destroyed more medium as well........

So JWP was Right.............. I was also right............ Who was MORE RIGHT? JWP will say he is more right, and I have to say, he might be, but I might say I am more right too............ HEH HEH....

I split the rest of those 80% meplats up between JWP and another handgun hunter and sent to them, I kept a few and I truly covet the few I kept and would only use those for very special circumstances because I know they will knock the crap out of anything they hit.................

I highly value your knowledge and friendship! You are a very intelligent and generous man.
I am a revolver shooter therefore 1,400 to 1,500 FPS is top velocity. As such we don't have 2000+ FPS velocity which in itself can cause increased trauma to vital organs. Therefore we give up a bit of penetration inorder to gain increased trauma.

Micheal458, is the real deal in my humble opinion.

 

[Luvthunt]

I highly value your knowledge and friendship! You are a very intelligent and generous man.
I am a revolver shooter therefore 1,400 to 1,500 FPS is top velocity. As such we don't have 2000+ FPS velocity which in itself can cause increased trauma to vital organs. Therefore we give up a bit of penetration inorder to gain increased trauma.

Micheal458, is the real deal in my humble opinion.

WOW and then some! This is an ultimate write up on solid configuration. Thank you for M458 sharing.

 

[Challer]

There have been studies presented here and elsewhere that .67 meplat has an optimum impact on performance. In addition to penetrating, there is a hydrodynamic effect as well.