Bertram Brass Quality?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

More recently than in the past, never had to seek it out before.

My experience is the Bertram hatred is more based on hearsay than experience(like temp sensitive powders) I’ve never had issues with it.

@deewayne2003
My hatred is based on PERSONAL FIRST HAND experience. Bought once,tried it NEVER, NEVER AGAIN.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bertram’s had a few issues with earlier brass manufacture (Worn machinery) and a load of bad brass stock. The main issue in the us, from what I understand, was years ago, a group of shooters bought a large load of seconds cases cheap and sold them as first grade. As to case prep, all brass should be checked before use, regardless of manufacturer, and Bertram’s can’t be that bad as they make a heap for the US military
oh, and I use a lot of their brass, had more problems with Norma than Bertram’s
gumpy

@Grumpy gumpy
Military isn't interested in reloading. As long as it goes bang and the bullet comes out the other end it's fine. They don't care about split cases as long as it functions properly ONCE it's fine.
Bob

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Bob, couple of thing, if you were fireforming to an Epps cartridge, did you anneal first? If not then that was your issue as you were trying to move a lot of brass and you can never rely on factory annealing. As to the brass being in spec, if it was in the tolerances for 303/25 then it was in spec, I can’t really comment on that as I don’t know the specs or the case sizes you had, and to the return of the brass, I think under Australian consumer law you need to return it to the place of purchase for them to deal wit, it then becomes an issue between them and the manufacturer
gumpy

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, couple of thing, if you were fireforming to an Epps cartridge, did you anneal first? If not then that was your issue as you were trying to move a lot of brass and you can never rely on factory annealing. As to the brass being in spec, if it was in the tolerances for 303/25 then it was in spec, I can’t really comment on that as I don’t know the specs or the case sizes you had, and to the return of the brass, I think under Australian consumer law you need to return it to the place of purchase for them to deal wit, it then becomes an issue between them and the manufacturer
gumpy

@Grumpy gumpy
I anneal all my brass before fire forming. Never had a problem with Remington or Hornady even before I started annealing.
The Bertram crap wouldn't even move the shoulder and blew the case apart. If it was within spec then a tight tolerance chamber with minimum headspace should be a diddle to form cases in. The rims were that small even the extractor wouldn't pull them out.
They may have been in spec but not very good specs.
I have fireformed 100s of cases for my and my son's Epps with Remington, Hornady and Norma brass without issue.
Bob

 

[Hunter4752001]

G'day @Grumpy gumpy Have you got any links or other material to verify the claim that Bertram sells lots of brass to the US military? My understanding is that all their small arms brass is made at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant which is currently operated by Olin Corp. I'd be fascinated to see any evidence they went outside of the US supply system even for esoteric experimental rounds.

Maybe @Red Leg has some insights on this.

 

[sestoppelman]

"MY experience with Bertram brass is if it was the only brass available I would start using a muzzle loader"

 

[Daniel Cary]

500 Jeffery sure has distinguishable differences. (Off Topic-Noticeable)?
Kynoch-Norma-Jamison-Bertram

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

G'day @Grumpy gumpy Have you got any links or other material to verify the claim that Bertram sells lots of brass to the US military? My understanding is that all their small arms brass is made at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant which is currently operated by Olin Corp. I'd be fascinated to see any evidence they went outside of the US supply system even for esoteric experimental rounds.

Maybe @Red Leg has some insights on this.

It was another forum member who told me that, I have no reason to doubt him
gumpy

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

"MY experience with Bertram brass is if it was the only brass available I would start using a muzzle loader"

@sestoppelman
Maybe we could learn together.
As there is a 209 primer and percussion cap shortage we would be better off with flint locks than Bertram brass.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

It was another forum member who told me that, I have no reason to doubt him
gumpy

I'm not sure how big the operation is but I don't think it is all that big.

My mate has been there and was telling me that Bertram Brass did some military contract developmental stuff years ago and in part it's what set Bertram up. The development stuff and the concept was dropped as Defence do and the rest is history.

ADI is an Aussie based company owned by Thales International. ADI make brass and produce bulk ammo for an Australian distributor. Another Australian company NIOA bought it Barrett so there are some connections here for military contracts.

Nightforce set up an approved/templated range on a remote property for military contractors to be able to test equipment on an approved range in Australia without going overseas.

 

[Tintin]

Bertrams is worth a visit if you get the chance. Some of the machines are quite historical, having come from the old military munitions plant at Maribyrnong. It's impressive to see them still producing after all this time, all being maintained in house.

Their massive range of cases / projectiles is incredible to see first hand.

Here's a video (not mine) that shows some of the processes.

 

[PCC600]

I use Bertram brass for 600NE , 500NE , 505G , 416 Rigby , 425WR , 404 J , 459/400, 375H&H flanged , 318WR - been doing so for 15 years and have never had a problem.

 

[Hagler.450Ex]

I use Bertram brass for 600NE , 500NE , 505G , 416 Rigby , 425WR , 404 J , 459/400, 375H&H flanged , 318WR - been doing so for 15 years and have never had a problem.

I've never actually had a problem with them either, in .450 no.2, and .600, going back ages, but I still agree with the muzzleloader thing, if only due to what you get for the insane price. When I looked at and held my first Jamison .450 case, I remember having felt cheated all my life. I've never used Bertram in .500 3", I loaded up on Jamison's for that. Only wish I had done the same for .577, not for NE, but BPE in both that and the .500. I went BPE crazy years ago when age started kicking my arse and I got slower, and those pressures don't stress brass, but if I were Bob, I'd feel the same and they would have heard from me as well. No reason that should have happened if annealed.

 

[Excessexpress]

My first experience was fine, about to try again on another unobtainable cartridge so we will see, I might anneal them anyway but I bought enough for some spares if I decide not to.

 

[ACM]

My experience with the brass has been great. I have purchased 450 3-1/4” from them & 404 Jeffery. You could tell the 404 had been annealed. All brass was well packaged and I didn’t have any real damages. Flash holes have been uniform & consistent. In the 450 3-1/4” my powder charge equaled that used in my Hornady brass (for same velocity), so case volume must be very close, and has shown to be consistent.
Overall pleased.

 

[degoins]

Over 20 years ago I ordered some from Midway and the flash holes were either partially punched through or not at all. Midway didn't want to take them back and Larry told me what size drill bit I could use to drill them out so that's what I did.

 

[ACM]

Over 20 years ago I ordered some from Midway and the flash holes were either partially punched through or not at all. Midway didn't want to take them back and Larry told me what size drill bit I could use to drill them out so that's what I did.

That’s terrible.
They definitely had some known problems in the past, but in my recent dealings, I have been pleased.

 

[degoins]

That’s terrible.
They definitely had some known problems in the past, but in my recent dealings, I have been pleased.

I'm glad to hear that their earlier issues may be behind them.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Old thread, but for what it’s worth I have 40 or so pieces of Bertram .404J brass. It’s loaded and fired just fine.

Most of my .404 brass is Hornady, along with some NOS Bell brass.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

There are too many independent negative reports out there for me to deny that they certainly had some issues with quality control in the past.

That said, I’ve personally found both their .425 Westley Richards and .600 Nitro Express brass to be quite excellent.