Best practice vs good enough for hunting

[JohnD29]

Hi John,
I personally tend to favor depriming first with a dedicated depriming die that does not reshape the case. After depriming, I tumble the cases with SS media prior to inspection and resizing.

I have a few reasons for preferring this order. 1) By depriming prior to tumbling, the SS media does most (if not all) of the primer pocket cleaning for me. 2) By using a dedicated depriming station, then cleaning prior to resizing, I keep a lot of dirt and fouling out of my resizing die. Since the depriming die does not really touch the case, the dirt and fouling has little chance to damage it. 3) By cleaning prior to resizing, I have one additional opportunity to inspect the clean cases and find potentially dangerous faults or signs of weakness.

At first, I saw the dedicated depriming station as an extra step, but after committing to it, I find it not only produces better and more consistent cases, it doesn't really take any more time since I save much of the time I used to spend cleaning primer pockets individually. Of course I'm somebody who individually weighs every one my powder charges even when I'm reloading for a handgun so take my approach with a grain of salt (or a grain of Varget...)

 

[JimP]

I know hunters who reload just for hunting.

They shoot just basic reloads. They find a load that looks interesting in a load book and put it together. At most they might clean the primer pockets once every couple of reloads. One of them brings all of his old brass over to me every couple of years to run through my vibrator cleaner.

All he does is run the case through the sizing die that resizes, decaps the primer, and expands the neck to the proper dimensions. He then dumps the powder in from a old case that he has measured for the correct amount of powder and brazed a handle onto it. He'll then seat the bullet. Nothing fancy but he kills deer and elk every year with his loads. The only thing that he really changed up was that he now uses a Lee Primer tool to seat the primers.

Are his loads the best that they can be? I have no idea but he kills animals with them every year.

 

[Albert GRANT]

I'll go ahead and say something I try to not say but, here goes...

If you aren't within an animal's "circle of concern", you're not hunting. For a lot of quadrupeds, their circle of concern is less than 200 yards.

I know half the folks that read this are going to start throwing out ridiculous exceptions to my statement so I'll say ahead of time, "you know what I mean".

LOL! what do you mean- if I stand on top of a ridgeline facing the sun with my magellin 2000x telescope/spotting scope the deer will see the reflection from a mile away, I gotta be able to shoot em at 1800yds!
On the other side of that, if you aren't using stick and string and can't hear em breath, you aren't of any concern to them....

Personally, I'm right there with ya, 200 is the most on average I want to be shooting at a living animal. There are some exceptions under the best circumstances, and I have had a handful of shots out to 400, but 90% of the animals I have taken have been under 100yds. To each his own, I don't bust on anyone for their given choice, but for me, I feel the animal deserves the best effort to put it down as quickly and cleanly as possible. No matter how good you are, the further away they are, the more those chances lower.

 

[Firebird]

A primer pocket cleaning brush also clears the flash hole of metallic cleaning products or cob type cleaners. Gotta make sure your hole is clean after you tumble
Your brass!

 

[cajunchefray]

Agree on completely reading reloading MANUALS. I read 3 before I reloaded my first round over 20 years ago. I find that the Lyman, Speer, and Hornady manuals are very helpful.

I read the Lyman manual first, then the others. Each has same basic information, and each has some other tips and techniques that are useful and educate you on the inter-related variable that affect Safety, Consistency and Accuracy.

I de-prime my cases with a dedicated de-priming die first. If brass cased, I tumble with treated corn cob media. Not always on nickel cases. the cases can usually just be wiped off with a clean cotton rag.

I always inspect each primer pocket under a bright light, with a small, tapered punch in hand to knock out any corn cob kernels, looking through the case to make sure the flash hole is clear.

Then I use a primer pocket brush to remove carbon. An automated case prep machine does speed this up, as well as chamfering and deburring the case mouth. It saves time and is a worthwhile investment.

I like to insure a clean, consistent condition primer pocket, as it makes the "feel" of fully seating the primer more consistent for reliable ignition.

A Lee Factory Crimp die takes the guesswork out of crimp setting the seating die, as well as takes care of minor, but in spec variations in case length. Another very worthwhile investment.

I weigh each charge, on a simple Lyman Electronic scale, but I'm just meticulous (and cheap).
A good powder measure is great though.

The themes of a focus on Safety, a Consistent Process and Double Checking your steps are key.

I only have one type of powder on my bench at any time. I verify the label 3 times, before during, and after reloading.

I keep a log of each load every time.
Charts are in the Lyman reloading manual that are great, I use this format.
Once you have reloaded a few times, it becomes a rhythm. Keep your processes consistent.

You will have loads that are safe and hunting accurate, often mor than some (not all) factory loads.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hi John,

As you can tell there are a lot of reloaders on here that reload for a variety of reasons. I'm sure we could all write a book on how and the why purpose we reload. The various individual steps we use in our various reloading processes.

Your OP title Best practice vs good enough for hunting to me is a duel question and several members here may agree or agree to disagree on Best and good enough, and practice and hunting the terms you used.

You stated you are a beginner. We all started reloading as beginners some here learned from watching and learning from mentors or some of the younger members may have learned from good and bad YouTube videos.

And then there are the rest of us who picked up a, as in 1, reloading manual, myself later on when I was given, traded for, or purchased at a below bargin basement price a second or tenth hand Lyman single stage reloading press that came with very few accessories and an old Lyman Reloading Manual that I read. This was nearly or just over a year or more after I started reloading.

I started reloading back in 1976 for my very first centerfire rifle, a Marlin Model 336C, 30-30 lever action rifle, using a steel face hammer then bought a hard face mallet. My reloading knowledge came from following the 2 page instructions provided with the Lee hand reloading kit.

When I started I didn't:

Measure my spent brass
Trim my brass
clean my brass
clean my primer pocket
Weigh my powder...powder of choice is IMR 3031 and weight was by the dipper included in the Lee reloading kit. The reason for selecting IMR 3031 is because it was one of a half dozen or so powders listed on the Lee instructions sheet and carried by local gun shop.
Chamfer the cartridge neck
Deburr the cartridge neck
Case lube wasn't necessary nor required
Never measured C.O.A.L.....just seated the bullet to the ring around it. Bullet choice again 1 of maybe 3 or 4 recommended the Lee instructions and available at LGS 150 gr Speer or Sierra RNSP which were the least expensive bullets at that time.
Didn't crimp the brass to bullet

This was my....Best practice vs good enough for hunting...reloaded ammo.

 

[VertigoBE]

I'll be following this with interest.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hopefully you read my very long previous thread and can digest the very crude way I started my reloading experience.

Back in 1976 my costs in reloading 100ct 30-30 was somewhere around 20-25 cents per cartridge, around $5.00 per 20 ct box vs around $8.00 per 20 ct box of factory ammo. I reloaded each piece of brass 10, 12, or more times. Later I paused my reloading because for me it became more economical to buy 2 boxes of factory ammo for hunting than to spend my time and money on reloading supplies for no more than I shot my rifle.

Fast forward a couple of years and well after I got the single stage Lyman press and several different caliber of rifles I started reloading again. This time I purchased 2 other reloading manuals, focused on:

Bullet velocities, ballistics, weights, types, seating, C.O.A.L. and the different manufacturers.

Powder types, consistent powder weights - the need for weighing powder charges, pressures.

Brass prep: ie cleaning, trimming, resizing, deburring, expanding the case neck, cleaning the primer pocket.

Firearm accuracies No two firearms by the same manufacturer in the same caliber shoots exactly the same with the same loaf! Plus or minus .5 to 1 gain of powder or even using a different powder can mean the difference in each firearms optimum accuracy. Bullet weight, type and dimensions also affect accuracy...not all the bullets in the same box weigh or measure the same: ie box of .308 diameter, 165 grain boat tail pointed soft point, bullets can vary up and down by 2+ grains and vary up and down by in length by .2+ inches.

Again back to... Best practice vs good enough for hunting...

Deprime or not to deprime before polishing your brass, saving one or two steps.

Saving a couple of steps implies, as several including myself, you mean to cut corners on your reloading process, which implies, to several of us including myself, you are risking not only your personal safety but the safety of those standing near you whether at the range or in the field. Some on here have been a bit coy and others have bit a bit more crude but we all want to insure that being a newbie to reloading you reload safely.

As one member put being lazy. I regretfully did get lazy once and learned my lesson the hard way...at the expense of a firearm....no personal injury....because a newbie I had been tutoring on reloading was lazy and after our....my discussion with him on the dangers he could have and the worse damages he could have caused he decided reloading was too much an effort.

Can you get by safely skipping a couple of steps? My previous long thread pretty much indicates the answer is yes. And you can do it safely. Should you skip a couple of steps....well that depends on the steps you want to skip.

Reloading is a time consuming activity especially when using single stage and turret type presses....
asking:

Best practice vs good enough for hunting

 

[shootist~]

No need to decap first, that's just adding an extra step - for me anyway.

Do clean and trim your brass. (FWIW, I still use corncob media and some polish before and after sizing. Its worked fine for ~45 years.)

Do clean the primer pocket at some point unless it's just practice loads.
You can just use your primer pocket uniforming tool each time as a way to
clean (what many match shooters do). Or whatever tool you prefer.
But be absolutely sure you don't end up with any high primers.

In short - if it's for reliability (and safety), do it.

 

[putter97127]

The newest issue of American Rifleman has an interesting article regarding reloading with just the essential steps vs fully prepping each case and how practical accuracy was affected. The difference was pretty small.

When I was young, my dad would help me reload. He reloaded his entire adult life. He never used a tumbler to clean brass, loaded to whatever overall length was listed in the manual, used Pam cooking spray for case lube. Case length was always checked and trimmed when necessary and primer pockets were always cleaned out. It always worked well for him.

 

[Shootist43]

John the Electrician, as a "new" reloader, I'd suggest that you read Nathan Foster's book entitled "The Practical Guide to Reloading." It can be found here: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/shop/The+Practical+Guide+to+Reloading.html

There was an AH thread several years back asking "why do you reload?" or words to that effect. Look it up, you might find it interesting.
.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Best practice should be also best for hunting....not vs good enough for hunting.

A 22 long rifle is good for practicing but it doesn't provide the same recoil or feel of a .223 or larger caliber hunting rifle.

You may or may not have read the various Posts regarding reduced loads in larger caliber rifles for target practice or regulating double rifles or my posts and threads were I offered my recoil sensitive (associated to a shoulder injury) niece-in-law to use my 458WM down loaded to 45-70, which ended up in the universe of the unknowns. The area beyond maximum powder charge for 45-70 and we'll below minimum powder charge load using the shorter bullet designed for the 45-70 and not the longer bullet designed for the 458WM. The results were a cartridge by ballistics, and tested at 100 yards, to be accurate, recoil seemed to me be comfortable at a lot less than my 45-70 lever action, with more than enough knock down energy for a Canadian spring black bear out to150 yards. Best practice and good enough for hunting...not vs good enough for hunting.

Tomato, tamottoe, mater...same vegetable. Saving steps, skipping steps, maybe even saving time can be interpeded as cutting corners which could result in the situation I had or in a ka boom at the range.

We all have our respective "pet" loads. Some like hottest powder charges they can safely use, some like myself prefer to stay with the moderate to max powder charge range of a given powder, bullet, cartridge manufacturer.

Whether you clean your primer pocket out everytime or not the most import thing is to ensure the primer is fully seated evenly and flush with the base of the brass.

Opinions are like a$$holes everybody has one and most everyone on AH has a different way of doing the same thing because we have had our respectively various successes and failures at doing the same thing.

Oh, Welcome to AH.

 

[Rare Breed]

Hopefully you read my very long previous thread and can digest the very crude way I started my reloading experience.

Back in 1976 my costs in reloading 100ct 30-30 was somewhere around 20-25 cents per cartridge, around $5.00 per 20 ct box vs around $8.00 per 20 ct box of factory ammo. I reloaded each piece of brass 10, 12, or more times. Later I paused my reloading because for me it became more economical to buy 2 boxes of factory ammo for hunting than to spend my time and money on reloading supplies for no more than I shot my rifle.

Fast forward a couple of years and well after I got the single stage Lyman press and several different caliber of rifles I started reloading again. This time I purchased 2 other reloading manuals, focused on:

Bullet velocities, ballistics, weights, types, seating, C.O.A.L. and the different manufacturers.

Powder types, consistent powder weights - the need for weighing powder charges, pressures.

Brass prep: ie cleaning, trimming, resizing, deburring, expanding the case neck, cleaning the primer pocket.

Firearm accuracies No two firearms by the same manufacturer in the same caliber shoots exactly the same with the same loaf! Plus or minus .5 to 1 gain of powder or even using a different powder can mean the difference in each firearms optimum accuracy. Bullet weight, type and dimensions also affect accuracy...not all the bullets in the same box weigh or measure the same: ie box of .308 diameter, 165 grain boat tail pointed soft point, bullets can vary up and down by 2+ grains and vary up and down by in length by .2+ inches.

Again back to... Best practice vs good enough for hunting...

Deprime or not to deprime before polishing your brass, saving one or two steps.

Saving a couple of steps implies, as several including myself, you mean to cut corners on your reloading process, which implies, to several of us including myself, you are risking not only your personal safety but the safety of those standing near you whether at the range or in the field. Some on here have been a bit coy and others have bit a bit more crude but we all want to insure that being a newbie to reloading you reload safely.

As one member put being lazy. I regretfully did get lazy once and learned my lesson the hard way...at the expense of a firearm....no personal injury....because a newbie I had been tutoring on reloading was lazy and after our....my discussion with him on the dangers he could have and the worse damages he could have caused he decided reloading was too much an effort.

Can you get by safely skipping a couple of steps? My previous long thread pretty much indicates the answer is yes. And you can do it safely. Should you skip a couple of steps....well that depends on the steps you want to skip.

Reloading is a time consuming activity especially when using single stage and turret type presses....
asking:

Best practice vs good enough for hunting

I did say no disrespect intended but lazy was probably a poor choice of words by me. My apologies to the OP

 

[Tex .416]

OP,

I used to shoot long range including competition without ever wet tumbling. I use a decapping die, then tumble in corn cob media, poke stuck media out with a small nail or paperclip, size, trim, load. A Sinclair primer pocket uniformer or similar tool can be used to make crisp primer pockets. A Sinclair primer pocket uniformer is used on all new brass.

Loaded 10’s of 1,000’s of rounds like that.

Here is my practice target from this afternoon with one of my two most used light .308’s with Barnes 130’s TTSX’s my main deer and pig hunting bullet. No wet tumbling was used.

Practiced some standing offhand and sticks first, covered those with the repair stickers as shown. Then shot these three off a bipod before putting the rifle away.

( Interesting to note the higher point of impact with the temp over 90F today, compared to the zero from a few weeks ago with temps in the low 40’s. Distance was 100 yards.)

 

[cmk]

I basically split the case prep work into two steps; cleaning and resizing.

Cleaning

Visual inspection for obviously broken cases.

Wipe off outside dirt, if any.

Decap with a separate decapping die.

Then clean the primer pocket.

Clean the inside of the neck with a nylon brush. Done with the cleaning.

I then mark the case head with an automatic center punch (to keep track of how many times that particular case has been reloaded). If the number is a multiple of 5, the case goes into the bin marked "annealing", otherwise into a bin marked "calibre XXX - step 1".

Every now and I take care of annealing, and afterwards, those cases also end up in "step 1" bins.

Resizing

Lube the cases. RCBS lube on the bodies, graphite for the necks.

Resize the brass.

Wipe off the RCBS lube with a damp rag and inspect again for damaged ones.

Measure the brass. If too long, they go into a bin marked "trimming".

Chamfer/deburr the necks..

Then put into a bin marked "calibre XXX - step 2". These are now ready to be reloaded.

Periodically I do the trimming, chamfer/deburr and put into "step 2" bins.
- - -
When picking up prepped cases for reloading, check them again for flaws.
- - - - - - - -
Opposite to what another member stated above, I actually prefer to hunt with brass that been fired at least once in my rifle. Maybe not 15 times, but I happily hunt with brass that are on their third or fourth time around.

- - - - - - - -

Regarding safety:

Verify that primers are seated well. A protruding primer could - under bad circumstances - lead to a discharge before the bolt is fully locked.

Only one powder bottle at a time on the reloading bench.

Double-check it's the correct one.

Check again.

Before seating bullets, visually check that there is powder in all cases. The primer alone can drive a bullet far enough into the barrel, that another round can be chambered. If the trigger is then pulled, hilarity will NOT ensue.

Have procedure/routine when reloading. Follow it.

Make sure that you have the time/energy for an uniterrupted loading session.

 

[John the Electrician]

I did say no disrespect intended but lazy was probably a poor choice of words by me. My apologies to the OP

Amazing. Even your apology is condescending. I am being very thoughtful in the words I am choosing.

John

 

[Rare Breed]

Amazing. Even your apology is condescending. I am being very thoughtful in the words I am choosing.

John

I regret joining this thread…just concerned for a new reloader given potential danger and my many years of reloading. I have more faults than we have time to discuss but being condescending or ungrateful are not two of them

 

[VertigoBE]

Amazing. Even your apology is condescending. I am being very thoughtful in the words I am choosing.

John

Come on John, the man apologized, leave it be.

As an aspiring reloader myself, I would love to hear more about the steps necessary in reloading, while others are optional and more geared toward ultimate precision.

 

[JimP]

As an aspiring reloader myself, I would love to hear more about the steps necessary in reloading, while others are optional and more geared toward ultimate precision.

One thing on ultimate precision, a number of years ago a gun writer in a very known shooting magazine wondered if all the extra steps that the ultra shooters took as far a reloading were needed.

He took some plain old range brass, some power off of the shelf that was correct for the caliber that he was going to load for and a box of off the shelf bullet, and primers. He put together a number of rounds. He used a powder dispenser without precisely weighting any of the charges. Cleaned the cases by hand and loaded up his test run.

He then headed to the range to check out his loads. He found that they were just as accurate as those that had their powder charges weighed to the 1/10 of a grain, primer pockets cleaned and uniform, bullets seated to the exact same depth along with the correct overall length.

His conclusion is that as long as a person is consistent in how they load their ammo that it will shoot quite well. He also ran test with factory ammo, mind you this was 40+ years ago before all the premium bullets and loads were available. He found that if you find a load that your rifle likes then there is really no need to reload for precision.

In the years since I found a number of factory loads that most of my rifles like. I have duplicated most of them as far as bullet weight and overall length along with velocity, with a little bit of experimentation my loads now shoot better than the factory loads that my rifles liked.

What it comes down to is that it isn't hard to load "minute of animal" loads for hunting.

 

[Rare Breed]

One thing on ultimate precision, a number of years ago a gun writer in a very known shooting magazine wondered if all the extra steps that the ultra shooters took as far a reloading were needed.

He took some plain old range brass, some power off of the shelf that was correct for the caliber that he was going to load for and a box of off the shelf bullet, and primers. He put together a number of rounds. He used a powder dispenser without precisely weighting any of the charges. Cleaned the cases by hand and loaded up his test run.

He then headed to the range to check out his loads. He found that they were just as accurate as those that had their powder charges weighed to the 1/10 of a grain, primer pockets cleaned and uniform, bullets seated to the exact same depth along with the correct overall length.

His conclusion is that as long as a person is consistent in how they load their ammo that it will shoot quite well. He also ran test with factory ammo, mind you this was 40+ years ago before all the premium bullets and loads were available. He found that if you find a load that your rifle likes then there is really no need to reload for precision.

In the years since I found a number of factory loads that most of my rifles like. I have duplicated most of them as far as bullet weight and overall length along with velocity, with a little bit of experimentation my loads now shoot better than the factory loads that my rifles liked.

What it comes down to is that it isn't hard to load "minute of animal" loads for hunting.

I completely agree with you that reloading is not hard and certainly not rocket science, lol!!! To me it is so much fun and is just part of the total planning and experience of hunting Africa!!! Also shooting DR's like I do, the cost of loaded ammo if you can even find it is just getting into the absurd! Reloading while not cheap in big bores is still about a fourth of the cost to buy fully loaded ammo at least for me. I do think whatever your process is, you be consistent and very safe about it. I am a very high energy, passionate person so for me, I have to really calm way down, get in a comfortable state of mind then get in my office and just relax and take my time reloading which again to me is just plain fun to do!!! Also, I have found bolt actions seem so much more forgiving that a double rifle. It is not so much the first shot with the DR as it is about the regulation if that second shot is needed.