Blaser R8 - Why do African PH’s and Alaskan Bear Guides Choose Not To Use Blaser R8’s?

[BeeMaa]

@NWT has shown his colors.
It's up to other members if they choose to respond.

Personally, I'm out.

 

[Tra3]

As for a young or new hunter getting into the game, yes, it is worth learning and trying a bunch of stuff out. But the only way to do that is to get time in the field, then by the time you have enough experience to form a good opinion, well you are not a new or young hunter anymore.

I’m going to guess that there actually are a number of experts on this forum. After a fair amount of forum reading it is easier to spot people who know some stuff and people who don’t. Me, I guess I’m firmly in the intermediate stage. I hunt 40+ days a year and started hunting at age 12, that was 32 years ago. A Winchester M70 was good enough for 20+ years. Then I made worked and saved and went to a Kimber. Then I added a variety of rifles (sako, ruger, more kimber, etc)that hang out in the safe with the Kimbers, because I now use an R8. So is my 14 year old son. It took a while, and a lot of research, to make that decision. Others can take my opinion for what it is worth.
The R8 works great for a travel rifle that packs well and allows me to hunt elk and squirrel in the same trip, out of the same case (yes, I did that In both MT and ID this fall).

Why don’t more PH’s use Kimbers? Excellent rifles in my opinion. Why don’t they all use winchesters?
Why pay a premium for a rifle that comes apart when you don’t fly with it regularly?

 

[WAB]

@NWT has shown his colors.
It's up to other members if they choose to respond.

Personally, I'm out.

Agreed. I don’t own an R8 but I have tremendous respect for it and the many experienced hunters on this forum who swear by it.

 

[dchamp]

@NWT So why do the real experts, the PH’s not use the Blaser R8’s in .416 or .458’s for back up work?
Could be various reasons known only to you and your friends. Since I don't have a clue and since you obviously know the answer to your own question, please enlighten me with an answer. Frankly I don't think your question was asked with genuine interest.

I may not have your hunting experience and I surely don't have the vast experience of Professional Hunters. I do however, have some limited experience with hunting, engineering and manufacturing. I also own some Blaser R8's and find their engineering and functionality superb. Whether you like them or not is not of my concern, frankly I don't give a f__k whether you or your PH friends like them or not.
Just saying

 

[375Fox]

I definitely see the value in these rifles for traveling, but I get tired of reading nothing but glowing reviews when I could see some very obvious drawbacks to them such as trigger/magazine in same assembly. However, I’m not above buying one some day. Some serious questions on them.
1. How tolerant have they been of neglect? I use all my guns as tools not show pieces and put them through some abuse. I typically only clean them at end of a hunt.
2. How long has someone owned their R8? Appears introduced in 2008. Any problems as it has gotten older with increased use. I like sako 85s at the moment. I like the all steel and simplicity. Blasers appear like a lot of items could eventually fail.
3. Issues finding a gunsmith with knowledge to work on them?
4. Because it’s designed as a take down rifle, any issues with screws becoming lose? Particularly on heavier recoiling calibers.

Here is a photo of me using one for anyone who says I have no experience with them. They were nice rifles both times I rented them, but a roe buck hunt in Europe is hardly a demanding environment on a rifle.

 

[sierraone]

frankly I don't give a f__k whether you or your PH friends like them or not.

I think I agree!!!

 

[Randy F]

I like Kool-Aid.
It keeps me from answering my own question, then being a dick to anyone who doesn’t agree with me.
Just sayin.

 

[mdwest]

I guess I am just wondering why you think your opinion matters @NWT ?

because you love hunting rifles and spend a lot of time at your gun club?

because you know several PH?


those two things describe the vast majority of this boards membership...


because you have hunted DG before?

yeah... I think a significant number of the boards membership has done that too...


because you hunt more than most? and have friends that hunt more than you do?

you've got to be kidding right? dont you think that active members of a place called Africa Hunting likely hunt more than most, and have friends that hunt a lot as well?


Its a fair assumption that you dont own an R8 since you stated earlier that you dont have to own one to know if you like it or not... so its therefore also a pretty safe assumption that you know little about them other than what you have read.. and that while you may have handled and shot them on occasion.. its likely a whole lot less than the guys (to include PH's that are members of AH) that do own them....


So again... why exactly is it you think your opinion matters?

Are you an engineer that designs firearms?

Are you a gunsmith?

Have you conducted a study that compares an R8 to other rifles directly and provides a scientific analysis of the results?

if not....

just sayin...

 

[WAB]

@NWT I just went back and re-read your original post. Why in the world would you initiate a post just to start an argument? Poor form sir!

 

[Newby]

My, hasn't this turned into the usual kick fest whenever R8s are questioned.

I used to own an R93. I now own an R8. The OP may well have been seeking to promote a discussion, but that is not necessarily looking to start an argument.

His question was reasonable, and I believe, easily answered. Cost, simplicity, and bang for buck.

Ownership is not necessary to form an valid opinion about anything, provided sufficient research, physical examination, and quality thinking are undertaken before that opinion is formed.

As is is well acknowledged, the R8 offers what is probably a unique feature set. Particularly in a market such as Europe, this feature set, and the turn key nature of the package is wonderful. No set up - no tune up - no bedding - nothing - just bolt it together and it works, with a very high level of accuracy. Plus the portability and the multi calibre flexibility, both of which, again, have their genesis in Europe.

That these qualities justifiably appeal to many outside Europe is self evident.

However why can no one seem to acknowledge the trade offs ? Cost and complexity.

The Blaser design appears aimed at preventing the incursion of gunk, which is admirable. Fast running alpine rivers in New Zealand ( and probably elsewhere) carry large quantities of "rock flour". This is much finer than gravel and is extremely abrasive. Immersion of one's rifle in such a river, usually via a fall or stumble, WILL see rock flour in the internals. With a M70 or similar with a 3po safety, the bolt can be quickly dissassembled without tools and the pieces rinsed in clean water. Clean water can be flushed through the trigger area as well, and you are back in the game, at least until proper maintenance and care can be performed.
Try that with an R8 bolt and trigger cube.
I am fortunate that I don't hunt any where with fine dust, but if I did so, I would take a lot of care to try and keep it out of my R8, as if it gets in, getting it out in the field will be extremely difficult. I am also fortunate in that I acknowledge, and like to think I understand, the vulnerabilities of my R8 in this regard and have the mindset to hopefully compensate for those vulnerabilities. I do not ignore the existence of those vulnerabilities.

A busy working guide or PH is unlikely to have the time, inclination, or headspace to do what I do.

As to cost, it simply makes no sense to pay for the Blaser feature set, if one has no use for it. People who work at hunting for a living, and use their rifles on an almost daily basis, do not need take down, or switch barrels. They do not have have time to look after their rifles as some of us may, and many of them simply don't care.

In these circumstances a good CRF turnbolt makes more sense, both practically and especially financially.

 

[NWT]

Argument or the truth .
The R8 action has design problems (the actions are machined to to close of tolerances) the actions are prone to jam up with sand . Not ideal for DG hunting.
I was pretty excited when the R8 was introduced a while back .I thought I wanted one. After all the safety issues with the Blaser R93 I remained a cautious bystander regarding the R8.

Kinda doubt a PH in one of the top DG concessions sits around fabricating stories about Blaser R8’s. The PH simply shared the story with me and he was obviously pretty shaken up because a client using a Blaser R8 jammed up because it had sand in it during a elephant hunt after shots had been fired by the hunter. The PH said it was not the first time he had a client with a R8 that would not feed due to sand in the action.

The topic was using the Blaser R8 on DG .
Its a totally different subject using the Blaser R8 on a Elk hunt where you bring a extra rifle barrel to shoot squirrels. The R8’s have a reputation for being accurate and unless you are in the high desert during a windstorm or your rifle accidentally gets sand in the action while you are crawling , or being exposed to the elements your rifle probably works great.

Only about 10 different people even responded to this, not a big story. I was told only a little over 100,000 Blaser R8’s have been sold. Was pretty sure some one would get themselves all worked up .This thread got started after I read enough the past 60 days from a self proclaimed internet expert. This self proclaimed expert is a expert on everything just ask him. He comments on almost every post.
Lots of good information is shared on this website at times, there are the self proclaimed experts that detract from it.
lf you think the Blaser R8 does not have a issue with the action jamming no problem it’s America and your life. If you are not already a Blaser R8 fanboy you may enjoy chatting with several DG PH’s. Most any rifle functions most of the time it’s the time the rifle doesn’t function as intended when the pucker factor goes up.
I really don’t care if you think the Blaser R8 in Dangerous Game Calibers is the best rifle made . I am never buying one so that leaves more for you. In the meantime I will use my CRF Mausers and Model 70’s made up by several of top rifle builders we have here in the USA.
Peace and Out
NWT

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

my posts on blasers are on here and i am sure have been read, and yes i do 90% of my hunting on a high fence area in SA, how that makes me less of a PH i am not sure. i own a R8, 2 actually with 4 barrels
my go to gun for backup is my R8, in 416 rem mag. has been for about 8-10 years now
backed up on hippo, lion, buff, elephant and various plains game.
have personally hunted hippo, lion, elephant, buff etc all with my 416rm
never had a jam, never had issue with magazine, never had an issue with safety, never had an issue with mounts for my burris fast fire reflex site.

so my opinion is obvious

yes i have also heard many stories about blasers, but not one has ever been substantiated.
i personally have had clients with problems with their rifles, safeties, mounts, stocks etc etc but not one of this has ever been with a blaser

as a PH i smile when a client arrives with a blaser.

 

[Foxi]

Pretty much sums up exactly what I was going to say.


With respect to doubles, I know four who carry Krieghoff doubles (two use .500's, one a .470, and one a 500-416) and a fifth who carries a Blaser S2 (not sure the cal). All have a slide cocking mechanism.

Red Leg-

maybe the PH who once told me this just didn't have the money for it, like there are people who reject the Porsche 911 , but secretly dream of it.

But we also have a number of PHs here,that prefer an old sawed-off 98 carbine more than anything else.

 

[shark_za]

Slamming the R8 because PH's don't use it is not really a reflection of the rifle itself.

African licensing regulations mean each barrel is basically another rifle and you jump through the same hoops to get it. That plus is a moot point.

African PH's don't make all that much money and use what can be bought, supported and used for as little as possible.

 

[mark-hunter]

PH's use what they can afford. This we have established.

Lets rephrase the question.
Why bespoke gun makers, such as London school, do not make linear action bolt rifles for elite market - either theirs, or at least under the license? (money is no object, right?)
They only produce "more primitive" rifles, in minimum 5 to 6 figures price level.

 

[shark_za]

That is because of nostalgia, tradition and history.
Craft beer makers don't really do light lagers

 

[Zambezi]

To the Op, I see you've hunted many places in USA but only in Zim. Maybe a few more trips over here you'll understand that a basic model Blaser in SA is over R110 000.00.... now at the exchange rate of $1 / R15.5 it sounds like a decent deal except for the fact that that would represent several months of profit or saving just to get the basic model. Then you have to factor in the licensing hoops to jump through a serious pain in the ass. So why would an African PH spend all that money on a rifle that does essentially the same as one half the price.

ANY rifle can have issues / jams / breakages etc in the field. Our gunsmiths and gun shops have experience with most makes of rifles but Blasers are relatively new to our market and official back up is thin on the ground. It's like the choice between a CZ75 or Glock as opposed to the other more "exotic handguns available here, yes you can any one you want but with a CZ/Glock they stock firing pins and other makes you have to wait 5 weeks for one on order... same goes for the Blaser as things currently stand.

So in short, PHs here use what they can afford, what is available and what they can have repaired in a hurry. It's no good having your main DG rifle out of action for weeks/months at a time.

You will find if the price comes down, the aftersales improves and the availability rises then you'll find more PHs using them. They are a great tool but have limited off the shelf DG calibres. Improvement in this range will also see more uptake.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

How do Blaser rifles compare to the Ross straight pull rifles? I’ve never had the chance to handle a Blaser. There are however a few Ross rifles left in circulation in my area.

 

[Professor Mawla]

PH's use what they can afford. This we have established.

Lets rephrase the question.
Why bespoke gun makers, such as London school, do not make linear action bolt rifles for elite market - either theirs, or at least under the license? (money is no object, right?)
They only produce "more primitive" rifles, in minimum 5 to 6 figures price level.

@mark-hunter
This is actually a very wise question . Based upon my experiences with English sporting arms and ammunition , they are very big on heritage and tradition . Take the following into consideration .

Holland & Holland , Westley Richards and George Gibbs ( of Bristol ) are still of the view that homogeneous brass bullets with accelerate the erosion of barrel rifling . I personally still prefer the traditional lead cored steel jacketed bullet , but even I know that this blanket statement is not true . They still recommend their rifles to be fired with Kynoch ammunition , almost exclusively . The exception here , would have to be John Rigby & Co . They are quite “ forward thinking “ by the standards of English gunmakers ; and openly endorse the use of American and / or homogeneous ammunition in their rifles .

I will give you a shotgun related example . Once every four or five years , I get invited to driven grouse shoots in the moors of Great Britain . In recent years , you admittedly do see some Beretta over under shotguns ( invariably in the hands of the younger hunters ) . However ( for the most part ) ; the standard English shotgun for driven grouse shooting has always been a 12 bore side by side side-lock ejector with 2 1/2 chambers , double triggers and 26 inch barrels ( left barrel = 1/2 choke , right barrel = 1/4 choke ) .

When I arrived at the moor with my Laurona 12 bore side-lock ejector ( on my first ever driven grouse shoot ) , I could tell that my 30 inch barrels were clearly out of place amongst the other shooters ( even though nobody actually objected ) . And everyone was using Eley Grand Prix 2 1/2 inch no . 6 birdshot shells . Arriving there with boxes of Winchester Super X 2 3/4 inch no. 6 birdshot shells , also made me stick out like a sore thumb .

Another time , a salesman at John Dickson & Sons ( of Edinburgh ) looked at me with genuine bemusement when I asked him if one of their 12 bore round action side by side shotguns could safely fire LG shells . He very flatly told me “ We generally build these under the assumption that nobody will ever fire anything larger than no.5s through them “ .

Yes . The English school of gunmakers are far more conservative in terms of tradition , than American or Continental gunmakers .

 

[WAB]

How do Blaser rifles compare to the Ross straight pull rifles? I’ve never had the chance to handle a Blaser. There are however a few Ross rifles left in circulation in my area.

Now there’s a blast from the past!