Blaser R8 - Why do African PH’s and Alaskan Bear Guides Choose Not To Use Blaser R8’s?

[FallowJaeger]

I’m going to jump in to say I’ve enjoy reading this. It’s educational and good to see the back and forth. Thank you Gents for the thoughts.

 

[Earle]

I have read the thread from start to finish and have an observation so far not mentioned. Some may consider it heresy, but maybe other's just plain don't like the looks of the Blaser's, I know i don't
Certainly wouldn't argue the point as beauty is in the eye of the beholder and i have no doubt's about the quality, but i, and i suspect many other's won't buy one because i (we) simply prefer the looks of ABC brand. Just my opinion and no offence to the many happy owner's of Blaser rifles.

 

[Professor Mawla]

When I need to ask questions about quality firearms I have on several occasions pm’d @Red Leg. He has been a gentleman who has offered valued information. I also try to follow the threads he replies to as I generally learn something. I have found him to be a first class gentleman who can state his opinion without belittling or insulting anyone. Which is more then can be said for the original poster.

@Skinnersblade
I could not have said it better myself . I invariably message Red Leg Sir whenever I wish to accumulate knowledge on any classical sporting arm . The gentleman’s in-depth knowledge and expertise is surpassed only by his affability .

 

[Tanks]

The PH needs a reliable firearm with iron sights. The client in most cases is carrying a scoped rifle. Different needs.

The advantages of an R8 are not an advantage for the PH that usually sticks to a single big bore caliber. The PHs I have hunted with mostly were carrying double rifles that originally cost more than the R8 so I don't think the cost was an issue.

To be honest it doesn't matter what one carries as a client as long as it is in a caliber that will do the job and the client can shoot it well.

Belittling people for their choice in firearms is just silly.

Now I know @Red Leg will disagree but if one brings at least two rifles to a hunt that has an overlap in capability then the miniscule chance of rifle malfunctioning becomes moot anyway. Heck, I even took a pair of shotguns to a recent pheasant hunt.

 

[Red Leg]

The PH needs a reliable firearm with iron sights. The client in most cases is carrying a scoped rifle. Different needs.

The advantages of an R8 are not an advantage for the PH that usually sticks to a single big bore caliber. The PHs I have hunted with mostly were carrying double rifles that originally cost more than the R8 so I don't think the cost was an issue.

To be honest it doesn't matter what one carries as a client as long as it is in a caliber that will do the job and the client can shoot it well.

Belittling people for their choice in firearms is just silly.

Now I know @Red Leg will disagree but if one brings at least two rifles to a hunt that has an overlap in capability then the miniscule chance of rifle malfunctioning becomes moot anyway. Heck, I even took a pair of shotguns to a recent pheasant hunt.

And as you might guess, I am taking just one to the Eastern Shore next month for ducks and geese. About all I could possibly manage anyway with all the gear I'm taking to try and keep from freezing to death.

 

[bruce moulds]

at the risk of incurring the wrath of god, i will qualify this by saying i do not have a blaser..
reasons are firstly the cost.
it seems that even a barrel and scope for same is more than a m70 or some mauser rifles.
for me it is easier to change rifles than change barrels.
i must confess to not finding their appearance attractive.
also, as a person who prefers 2 lugs to 3 for the advantage they have in extraction power, i really worry about potential extraction problems in straight pulls.
this problem is probably moot with lighter loads.
one advantage of the straight pull is rapid reloading.
however i see this negated by thumbhole stocks on some models.
however, each to his own is what makes the world go round, so all the best to those who love blasers.
bruce.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Red Leg ,
Rudeness, Really? maybe you are the internet expert I am speaking of.
Owning a bunch of guns that have no history and sound like they have never been used does not make one a expert. Again , rattling off a bunch of names of the various rifles you possess does not make you a expert, more of a gun collector. RL, you are also the one who started the conversation on how hard it is for you to travel with two rifles. How can you have so much experience with your rifles when your hunts are short and you only take one rifle?

I am fortunate to be able to hunt more than most and I do have friends that hunt more than me. None of them have any desire to hunt DG with a Blaser R8.

So why do the real experts, the PH’s not use the Blaser R8’s in .416 or .458’s for back up work? Many or most PH’s use bolt guns. Just saying , some of the young hunters and new hunters just getting into the game might want to do their own research and not believe what the internet experts tell you. I have not heard one PH recommend a Blaser R8 for a true free range DG safari. I have had PH’s recommend Mauser’s and the many variants with true CRF , never a recommendation on a Blaser R8’s. Talk to your PH maybe you will be able to form your own opinion

If you didn't want to hear from the so called "internet experts" why did you post all this on the internet?

 

[Foxi]

Zimbabwe versus South Africa? Remember Zimbabwe has had a long standing arms embargo on importing firearms (does not apply to temporary import). Most of the rifles that you will see in use in Zim. have been here for a very long time. Thats not to say that the occasional new rifle does not find a way into the country.

I could not offer an opinion on Blasers if someone is happy with theirs so be it. When it comes to dust my pre war Rigby .416 works just fine. My pre war George Gibbs .470 double must be cleaned thoroughly at least once a day or it will not close, just too tight.

There is also confusion when it comes to licensing (different caliber barrels), but I am not going to go into that!

Zimbabwe versus South Africa?

an appropriate point.
Maybe it would be interesting to list the nationalities.
A feeling tells me, that the "rich" South Africans have the most double- and modern rifles.
However, the PHs from "Real Africa" have different weapons in this regard.
Of the long serving PHs in Zimbabwe and Zambia that I have come to know well, all carry the Mauser system from various manufacturers.
A PH that has to study for three/3 years ! in Zimbabwe and Zambia to pass the exam, has a different quality to the two (2) weeks South African PH course (weeks! not years,well known PH Ian Goss in RSA is teaching them) .
So ,now the South African faction may descend upon me I stay to my Zimb and Zamb PH's.
(Nevertheless ,everyone should become happy as he thinks)
Foxi

 

[Zambezi]

Zimbabwe versus South Africa?

an appropriate point.
Maybe it would be interesting to list the nationalities.
A feeling tells me, that the "rich" South Africans have the most double- and modern rifles.
However, the PHs from "Real Africa" have different weapons in this regard.
Of the long serving PHs in Zimbabwe and Zambia that I have come to know well, all carry the Mauser system from various manufacturers.
A PH that has to study for three/3 years ! in Zimbabwe and Zambia to pass the exam, has a different quality to the two (2) weeks South African PH course (weeks! not years,well known PH Ian Goss in RSA is teaching them) .
So ,now the South African faction may descend upon me I stay to my Zimb and Zamb PH's.
(Nevertheless ,everyone should become happy as he thinks)
Foxi

Sorry but what a stupid post!

What has this got to do with why PH's don't use Blaser R8s?

And before you decide that I am a South African fighting my corner because my feeling were hurt let me say this: I was born in Zambia, lived in Rhodesia / Zimbabwe and South Africa. I have been back to Zambia to live and work.

Your post is typical of people who dismiss SA as the "commercial" destination while anywhere north is the "real" Africa... what utter nonsense! Yes, SA has a large proportion of high fence hunting areas BUT it also has many many areas that are open or so large that most game doesn't even know that the fences exist!

The SA game/hunting industry has taken the national numbers of game from around 400 000 in the 1980s to several million now. You can't do that unless you commercialise the industry and create a market for the local hunters who do not earn dollars pounds and euros as well as the international client. I would bet that upwards of 70% or so of first time hunters to Africa go to SA first... They must be doing something right and it must be an attractive destination... I suppose it's not the real Africa because we have roads, many airports, infrastructure and we are not all dying of cholera, malaria, dysentery and the plague.

As for PH quality I would say that the Zim PH's do have the edge in training BUT how many sub par PH's have YOU come into contact with in SA? Or are you just spouting perceived nonsense again. Believe me, with the amount of positions available and the amount of PH's available the sub par ones do not last long and are generally edged out of the very competitive market. AND you get sub par in every country!

As for who has what make of rifle in which country... If Zambia is the real Africa and hunts are more expensive wouldn't the PH's there make more money and therefore have the more expensive rifles? And as this thread has established 99% of the PH's (not matter where they are in Africa) carry "mauser type" rifles.

As you say you'll stick to your Zim /Zam PH's... You bias against anything south of the Limpopo river would mean that you would not enjoy any sort of hunt in SA no matter what was on offer. That's your choice. Much like having beaters driving boar towards me in a forest in Bavaria holds little enjoyment for me and I don't actually consider it hunting.

But each to their own.

 

[Foxi]

Sorry but what a stupid post!

What has this got to do with why PH's don't use Blaser R8s?

And before you decide that I am a South African fighting my corner because my feeling were hurt let me say this: I was born in Zambia, lived in Rhodesia / Zimbabwe and South Africa. I have been back to Zambia to live and work.

Your post is typical of people who dismiss SA as the "commercial" destination while anywhere north is the "real" Africa... what utter nonsense! Yes, SA has a large proportion of high fence hunting areas BUT it also has many many areas that are open or so large that most game doesn't even know that the fences exist!

The SA game/hunting industry has taken the national numbers of game from around 400 000 in the 1980s to several million now. You can't do that unless you commercialise the industry and create a market for the local hunters who do not earn dollars pounds and euros as well as the international client. I would bet that upwards of 70% or so of first time hunters to Africa go to SA first... They must be doing something right and it must be an attractive destination... I suppose it's not the real Africa because we have roads, many airports, infrastructure and we are not all dying of cholera, malaria, dysentery and the plague.

As for PH quality I would say that the Zim PH's do have the edge in training BUT how many sub par PH's have YOU come into contact with in SA? Or are you just spouting perceived nonsense again. Believe me, with the amount of positions available and the amount of PH's available the sub par ones do not last long and are generally edged out of the very competitive market. AND you get sub par in every country!

As for who has what make of rifle in which country... If Zambia is the real Africa and hunts are more expensive wouldn't the PH's there make more money and therefore have the more expensive rifles? And as this thread has established 99% of the PH's (not matter where they are in Africa) carry "mauser type" rifles.

As you say you'll stick to your Zim /Zam PH's... You bias against anything south of the Limpopo river would mean that you would not enjoy any sort of hunt in SA no matter what was on offer. That's your choice. Much like having beaters driving boar towards me in a forest in Bavaria holds little enjoyment for me and I don't actually consider it hunting.

But each to their own.

Listen, I'm well acquainted with the outfitter who owns the most and probably the best blocks in Zambia, we've been meeting once a year for years and I know some of his hunters.
Not to mention my friendly contacts with the PHs in Zimbabwe.
I know not so less what Im talking from.
I also do hunting there, so stop trying to disqualify myself.
Your status picture reflects exactly what I read from you.

 

[Zambezi]

Listen, I'm well acquainted with the outfitter who owns the most and probably the best blocks in Zambia, we've been meeting once a year for years and I know some of his hunters.
Not to mention my friendly contacts with the PHs in Zimbabwe.
I know not so less what Im talking from.
I also do hunting there, so stop trying to disqualify myself.
Your status picture reflects exactly what I read from you.

Wow you know a few PH's and hunters..... Brovo!!! I bow at your feet!

If you judge a person by his profile pic you probably judge everything else the same... meaning at first glance and based on the internet... You actually disqualify yourself.

And as I said, what does it have to do with PH's and Blasers?

 

[machinistbutler]

Love it when everyone is so nice to each other..

 

[Tanks]

And as you might guess, I am taking just one to the Eastern Shore next month for ducks and geese. About all I could possibly manage anyway with all the gear I'm taking to try and keep from freezing to death.

Good luck.

I would take only one 20 ga. SxS to the Georgia quail plantation if it ever happens, but that is mostly because I have only one.

 

[Red Leg]

Jamy Traut, Nick Nolte, Charlton McCullum, Harpreet Brar, John Sharp and Jeff Rann among many other non-South African PH's use double rifles for backing up clients hunting dangerous game. That isn't an opinion. As others have noted, as PH's move from being part time hire to running their own outfits and generate a bit more income (and many more headaches), the logical upgrade for a back-up rifle for many is a double. As much as I appreciate the perfection of the R8 as a client's rifle, were I a PH with a bit of money set aside, I would look for a K-Gun in .500.

Many other successful PH's prefer a bolt action. Len Taylor is one. He also uses a sling - bless his heart. (That is something else where opinions differ. I think a rifle slung muzzle down from the left shoulder is far and away the best way to tote one on a long stern chase for buff or eland). But I digress. A .505 Gibbs is just as traditional a stopping rifle choice as a Birmingham double.

I don't think there are many generalities other than younger PH's are looking for robust affordable dependability. The only rules driving more experienced PH's are hard earned personal preference and economics.

I would only add, that the factors driving a client's choice of DG rifle are quite a bit different than the PH.

 

[WAB]

Jamy Traut, Nick Nolte, Charlton McCullum, Harpreet Brar, John Sharp and Jeff Rann among many other non-South African PH's use double rifles for backing up clients hunting dangerous game. That isn't an opinion. As others have noted, as PH's move from being part time hire to running their own outfits and generate a bit more income (and many more headaches), the logical upgrade for a back-up rifle for many is a double. As much as I appreciate the perfection of the R8 as a client's rifle, were I a PH with a bit of money set aside, I would look for a K-Gun in .500.

Many other successful PH's prefer a bolt action. Len Taylor is one. He also uses a sling - bless his heart. (That is something else where opinions differ. I think a rifle slung muzzle down from the left shoulder is far and away the best way to tote one on a long stern chase for buff or eland). But I digress. A .505 Gibbs is just as traditional a stopping rifle choice as a Birmingham double.

I don't think there are many generalities other than younger PH's are looking for robust affordable dependability. The only rules driving more experienced PH's are hard earned personal preference and economics.

I would only add, that the factors driving a client's choice of DG rifle are quite a bit different than the PH.

Yep, when Len slings that Lott and heads out you’d better be prepared for a bit of a walk! I’ve seen a couple of videos floating around of Len sorting things out with that Lott. The lad can flat shoot in a tight spot!

 

[Philip Glass]

Tell us what you really think!

 

[Roller]

My humble takeaway from this forum...is "shoot what you want". I guess since you can use a recurve bow or a handgun to go dangerous game hunting (as a client), it really doesn't matter if you use a Czech boomstick with a crooked barrel or an expensive piece of overly complicated German engineering. It's up to you. And that friends, is what FREEDOM is all about. Amen and God Bless

 

[rinehart0050]

So I picked up my Baser R8 a few years back after talking with @Red Leg and doing lots of research, handling and firing them, etc. As others have mentioned, all of my nice 1/2 MOA or better custom rifles now spend most of their time collecting dust in the safe while the R8 gets all the attention.

I can only speak to my rifle, but it has yet to fail me or have any issues in varied conditions from desert to pouring rain to snow and ice.

I found the OP's comment about the action being "awkward" a bit confusing. My impression is that a straight pull action is far more natural and comfortable than working a traditional bolt, especially when you're trying to be fast. I will note that on my DG hunt for the lion in my avatar, I used a CZ550 in 416 Rigby. After my first shot, I had trouble getting the second round to feed. This was my error, attempting to work the bolt too quickly. However, this is not an issue that would be encountered on the R8 straight pull action.

 

[bruce moulds]

you should be able to work the bolt of any gun fast, slow, or in between.
bruce.

 

[Newby]

you should be able to work the bolt of any gun fast, slow, or in between.
bruce.

Agree. I've never tried to turn the bolt on a Blaser, and I have never tried to straight pull a turnbolt.

I think I am pretty quick with a turn bolt but the R8 has a definite speed advantage. Whether or not that is important to someone is a separate issue, but the R8 is hands down faster.