Bow Hunting Failure

[G Skinner]

No room for failure there !
Glen

 

[mrpoindexter]

Seems like we had someone give a hunt report in the last 6 months that hunted with a bow. He had only started with it like 3 months before he left?? A well tuned bow with proper components will reduce the learning curve. Africa is a great place to get a good start to being experienced with a bow. After all, you will have shoots at multiple animals on virtually any Safari that you take. Good luck. Bruce

That would probably have been me. I bought a bow and 5 months later, went on a hunt in South Africa. In 8 days, I took 2 bushbuck (two arrows each - first one a pass through and second a finishing shot), a kudu (pass through shot), a nyala (pass through also), a zebra (pass through and then a finishing arrow), 1 wildebeest (good hit but he ran and was finished with a rifle), 1 giraffe (terrible shot - nicked him like a paper cut, chased for hours, 1 rifle shot, 1 arrow w/27" penetration to chest), 1 eland (3 arrows shot - one good hit, then when he was down, went to finish. Misjudged range, hitting hoof, next hit lung and finished him), 1 impala (pass through) and 1 cape buffalo (1 shot pass through. Was asked to put a second in from a distance to make sure he was dead and he was already dead). I also lost one zebra on what looked like a good placement.

This was the first time I had ever gone hunting anywhere with anything.

Thanks for the reply. My biggest fear as a new hunter is how to deal with the failure. Not retrieving the animal as the worst. And this is causing doubt even before i begin. As there are 6 to 8 months before my hunt(still planning) i might give the bow a miss this year and practice more. As to what the guys had to say im sure they are just partial

Dealing with failure is a personal thing. Some get discouraged. Some focus more and get better. It does suck though. Looking back, I would have rather used 70lbs for a plains game just in case I hit a rib wrong with my arrows. 6-8 months is plenty of time to prepare. I only had 2-3 months to prepare for my trip. I had started archery as a hobby only a few months before the safari opportunity presented itself. Although I have not hunted with a gun of any kind, I remember the stalk of my buffalo and knew I could have shot any animal in two different herds many times over before I got my shot on the dominant bull with my bow. That gave me a great sense of accomplishment. I look forward to my next hunts and am petitioning very hard with the Zimbabwe government to let me use my bow on my next hunt. Hopefully they give me written permission to use it.

 

[mrpoindexter]

Here is a link to the hunt I did back in August.
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...th-greatland-safaris-john-henry-keyser.31424/

 

[Devin Twitty]

Archery is setting that takes practice and knowing your limit. I can't tell you how many shots I've passed on for the simple fact I was unsure of the conditions. Things you can do to avoid just wounding a animal are practice, get good sharp heads, have a foc of about 13%, bow tuned, and don't try to pull more weight then you can be comfortable with. Even the slow bows today are a lot faster then bows a few years ago. I've not shot a animal and lost one bow hunting but I have shot and hit a stick and missed or miss judged the yardage.

Rifle hunting is much easier to just pick up a gun and be marginal to kill a animal, I use the same approach to shoot a gun and it shows in accuracy.

 

[Lyleedward]

Good day

Earlier today i posted where i am asking which bow would work. Since then a few buddies of mine and the guys i went hunting with last year have been knocking bow hunting (no pun intended). Mostly how unsuccessful bow hunting is and how nobody ever talks about the failure rate. Now i am sure there are just as many rifle fails as bows (more or less) but this has edged some doubt into my mind.

Just taking the average hunter who is proficient it does seem that bow hunting will deliver less success? Obviously if you practice like an obsessed maniac it would help, but lets just say we stick with average Joe here.
The last thing i want to do in any circumstances is to wound an animal. I would like the death to be as fast and ethical as possible, that being said isn't a rifle the better option for Mr newbie?

As stated in other posts i am new to this and love the idea of bow hunting. This together with the issue of actually getting a firearm and TOTAL costs involved, a bow just seems logical. But the likelihood of ethically killing an animal vs a rifle does present a good question.

Your thoughts please..

Hi Elton I just came back from guiding bow hunters on water buffalo in Australia. They were recording for a future pod cast. All was positive first few days. Then they started wounding everything I had to shoot both my guys buff with my 470 double. These guys were seasoned hunters but trying to kill a bull buff with long bows of 80 lb is like shooting with a 243 win. Won’t allow it again. Compound of 80lb have been successful in the past. But I’m sure there was a lot of edits in the podcast. Out of 4 buff and one wild ox taken and one trophy lost. Only the wild ox was what I call good. 1 arrow 40 m dead. 3 buff were shot with rifle to bring down. The one bull that was taken by bow was 11 arrows 40 min. All in wild country most shots at 8 to 15 yards. 2x pigs one lost. As I said these guys could hunt ok and fit but The Equipment let them down by a large margin. There is a limit to how much of a challenge to make a hunt. The animals welfare must be considered as well.

 

[mcaustin]

2. Know your weapon and yourself and your limitations.

This. 100%

As a bowhunter you must have a thorough understanding of your limitations with your equipment, and the discipline to not take shots outside of you and your equipment's abilities.

I think a lot of the perceived issues concerning bowhunting vs rifle hunting come from a place of hunters expecting bow hunting to be as forgiving of mistakes and errors as rifle hunting - which it is not.

Know your limits and stick to them. You'll be fine.

 

[mrpoindexter]

Hi Elton I just came back from guiding bow hunters on water buffalo in Australia. They were recording for a future pod cast. All was positive first few days. Then they started wounding everything I had to shoot both my guys buff with my 470 double. These guys were seasoned hunters but trying to kill a bull buff with long bows of 80 lb is like shooting with a 243 win. Won’t allow it again. Compound of 80lb have been successful in the past. But I’m sure there was a lot of edits in the podcast. Out of 4 buff and one wild ox taken and one trophy lost. Only the wild ox was what I call good. 1 arrow 40 m dead. 3 buff were shot with rifle to bring down. The one bull that was taken by bow was 11 arrows 40 min. All in wild country most shots at 8 to 15 yards. 2x pigs one lost. As I said these guys could hunt ok and fit but The Equipment let them down by a large margin. There is a limit to how much of a challenge to make a hunt. The animals welfare must be considered as well.

There is a HUGE difference between a long bow and a compound. While 80# is considered what is needed, I think for long bows that is pushing it. Still, without knowing their draw length and their arrow weight and broadhead choice, it is hard to make a comment without basing it on assumptions. I would say that perhaps it wasn't their equipment that let them down but perhaps that they just went in there with the wrong equipment period.

I have taken down water buffalo, American bison and Cape buffalo with a bow. Both the Cape were downed with a single arrow each. The bison would have dropped with a single arrow but I put a second in just to speed up the process. Only the water buffalo took more and that was a combination of having a bow that was lighter than I would have chosen has I known I was going to get a rather large (SCI top 10) water buffalo and that my "guide" had forgotten his rifle at the lodge and instead of offering to go back and get it, just told me that he would be in the truck if I needed him while I spot and stalked him without any rifle protection, thus limiting my ability to get close enough and angled right for an ideal shot.

Given that, I am curious if the shots were good location but poor penetration due to being a long bow or didn't hit where they needed to because they are using much less accurate trad gear. As both of those things are known going in, I have a hard time blaming the equipment any more than one could blame a .243 win for failing to bring down a buff instead of blaming the hunter that chose such a weapon.

 

[Lyleedward]

As you guessed poor shot placement most of the time due to no sights. But wen well placed lack of penetration. I wasn’t blaming gear I was blaming poor choice of equipment. Trying to be nice haha. Like I said iv seen compound with 1200 gr arrows go through both shoulders. My point was trying to be a “purest” by deliberately going back to long bow from compound just annoyed me as the results should have been predicted by seasoned hunters. They got very close. And I wouldn’t tip your guide for leaving you. We have had a lot of charges the last 15 y more than before. Some totally unprovoked as well. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[rookhawk]

There is a HUGE difference between a long bow and a compound. While 80# is considered what is needed, I think for long bows that is pushing it. Still, without knowing their draw length and their arrow weight and broadhead choice, it is hard to make a comment without basing it on assumptions. I would say that perhaps it wasn't their equipment that let them down but perhaps that they just went in there with the wrong equipment period.

I have taken down water buffalo, American bison and Cape buffalo with a bow. Both the Cape were downed with a single arrow each. The bison would have dropped with a single arrow but I put a second in just to speed up the process. Only the water buffalo took more and that was a combination of having a bow that was lighter than I would have chosen has I known I was going to get a rather large (SCI top 10) water buffalo and that my "guide" had forgotten his rifle at the lodge and instead of offering to go back and get it, just told me that he would be in the truck if I needed him while I spot and stalked him without any rifle protection, thus limiting my ability to get close enough and angled right for an ideal shot.

Given that, I am curious if the shots were good location but poor penetration due to being a long bow or didn't hit where they needed to because they are using much less accurate trad gear. As both of those things are known going in, I have a hard time blaming the equipment any more than one could blame a .243 win for failing to bring down a buff instead of blaming the hunter that chose such a weapon.

Almost all archery woes come from the wrong arrow and broadhead. Most of those woes are caused by archery shops that sell what they sell.

There is not one product in a large archery shop that I would buy to use for my bowhunting. If you want to draw 70lbs and kill whitetails, you can do everything wrong and still be just fine. But that's what we call a confirmation bias, doing things wrong that work out anyway becoming the litmus test for "good enough" on another situation.

Heavy, heavy arrows. Cut on contact broadheads. Stropped razor sharp. Heavy FOC. Know the shot placement anatomy of the animal. Poundage of the bow is very, very rarely the problem. 60lb recurves and longbows have killed everything in Africa in an expert's hands. By inference, that means a 350 IBO modern compound bow at 42-45lb draw could do exactly the same thing IF the same meticulous attention to the arrow was paid by the compound enthusiast. But they don't most often. They show up with FMJs and easton HIT inserts and collars pushing something like a swhacker or other 3 blade and they are dumbfounded why their super-speedy setup didn't get the job done.

 

[BSO Dave]

Hi Elton I just came back from guiding bow hunters on water buffalo in Australia. They were recording for a future pod cast. All was positive first few days. Then they started wounding everything I had to shoot both my guys buff with my 470 double. These guys were seasoned hunters but trying to kill a bull buff with long bows of 80 lb is like shooting with a 243 win. Won’t allow it again. Compound of 80lb have been successful in the past. But I’m sure there was a lot of edits in the podcast. Out of 4 buff and one wild ox taken and one trophy lost. Only the wild ox was what I call good. 1 arrow 40 m dead. 3 buff were shot with rifle to bring down. The one bull that was taken by bow was 11 arrows 40 min. All in wild country most shots at 8 to 15 yards. 2x pigs one lost. As I said these guys could hunt ok and fit but The Equipment let them down by a large margin. There is a limit to how much of a challenge to make a hunt. The animals welfare must be considered as well.

I'm not trying to criticize with my comments... Perhaps I am missing part of the story? You say you guided these guys and watched them shoot 1 bull 11 times and allowed them to continue using what was obviously the wrong set-ups and equipment? May I ask why?

 

[Dee S]

What contributes to a bad name for bowhunting are the people that go to a store, they see archery gear, and on a whim buy the cheapest beginners stuff they can afford. Then they practice a few times, are able to hit the target, and think this isn't too hard, I got this, then go and attempt to shoot at a live animal.
In my area, we have all these people that have fled the big cities, moved to the rural areas, bought a couple of acres of land, find that they have deer, but not enough land to use a rifle, so they rush to buy a bow or crossbow. Our neighborhood has several of these new "bow hunters" and they wound more deer than they kill.
One Sunday morning my wife and two girls where on our way to church. We were driving down our street heading to the FM road when a young buck, too young to have been shot at, jumps out in front of us and begins to run in front of our vehicle for a hundred feet or so before running back into the woods. All the while, there's an arrow sticking out of his hind quarter. Arrow only had about 4-6 inches of penetration. I later found out that the property he first appeared from has a guy that went to BassPro and bought a bow. He was dumping corn on the ground about 20 yards from his back porch and was shooting from the back porch. No telling how many deer he has wounded on his five acres. Then another set of neighbors moved in and bought two tracts, so they own 12 acres. They put up five blinds on their property, with a couple on the fence line with the larger property behind theirs. Then they went to the bowshop I go to and they bought crossbows. The landowner behind them is a friend of mine and he told me he's had to go help them look for wounded deer that fled back to his land and they've never recovered a single one of them.

Bow hunting is not for those who are not willing to learn and put a lot of effort into it. It takes dedication and commitment to be successful, along with a proper set up. And a proper setup is not cheap. Cheap equipment can work, but more often than not, it leads to failures. A good buddy of mine went that route for a long time and he too wounded deer. He could hit the target, but would either miss the deer or wound them. I fussed at him so much, he finally got rid of his beginners setup and went to the bow shop where he purchased a Mathews. Even now, he still doesn't put a lot of research or effort into learning. He really is clueless about how to select and setup an arrow or the bow. He buys whatever looks "pretty cool" or he saw on a hunting show. He just bought a good setup and practices at 20 yards, and rarely will he shoot further than 20 yards. I tell him all the time, either take it seriously, study the craft, and become proficient, or stop doing it.
I was somewhat guilty of the above when I moved to the country 30+ years ago and found I had plenty of deer to shoot. But I'm the weirdo that goes all in when I do something. I went to the bowshop, shot several bows, asked a lot of questions, and bought a pretty good beginners package. I still have that High Country Ultra Force bow and I shot a lot of hogs and deer with it.
Like every bow hunter, I'm still tweaking, and refining my gear. My gear has gotten more expensive, but I purchase less gear, but what I do purchase is not cheap. I invested in high quality targets and I put a lot of arrows into those targets.
Does all this mean that I never screw up a shot or every animal drops in 20 yards, no, it does not. It just means my success rate has gone up and I've learned from my mistakes and now make fewer of them. We owe it to the animals to make accurate shots.

"Train like you hunt, hunt like you've trained" is a saying worth remembering, especially when it comes to bow hunting.

 

[Lyleedward]

I'm not trying to criticize with my comments... Perhaps I am missing part of the story? You say you guided these guys and watched them shoot 1 bull 11 times and allowed them to continue using what was obviously the wrong set-ups and equipment? May I ask why?

The other guide was with them at the time. The bull was dead on his feet, but would have been shot if I was present regardless of protests. It’s hard to fill in all details in a text. Bottom line these guys are well know hunters and I think they were a bit reluctant to admit the difference between 80 lb compound and the long bow. As I said in the past good success with competent bow hunters and compound with 1200gr arrows. Just not long bow. One was 80 lb 29.5 inch draw 1100 gr arrows. Not sure of broadheads had a few different ones. Try not to judge guide to harsh on this as bull was going nowhere they are tough and expected to fall much sooner as some shots were ok I was told. It’s one of those need to be there to fully get it. I had different hunter with me. That’s why I had to shoot both his bulls, as there no indication of heart or lung shot which of course this was confirmed to be the case wen we inspected the bulls.