Buffalo size and horn shape

[Ridge Top Ranch]

I agree hunt is the focus. Trailed the bull I shot and his buddy for two days. I like mature bulls with good drop. This bull had lion scars on his neck and rear end. We were asked to keep rifle loaded and remain vigilant due to number of lions in the area while buffalo was being cut up to load. Wife went with me on every stalk and took pics. It's all about the memories...

 

[Scott Slough]

I think that we should take the recomendations of the professionals when at all possible. My PH and I were discussing overall hunting and trophy expecations the evening before my first hunt and the subjecty turned to kudu ... wide vs. narrow. I told him that I first wanted old, but that I liked the "look" of a wide bull and he explained that the narrow ones ... with more pronounced curls ... often scored better. I told him none-the-less that I was really looking for an old, wide bull. He very casually mentioned that I could shot one of each ... which I did!

I think Eric's recomendation for kudu applies to buffalo ... one wide ... and one with deep curls ... and then you can spend the rest of your life looking for a wide one with deep curls!!!!

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

My 2 cents, a hunt is all about the experience, selling buff by the inch IMO takes away from that very experience...

A reality as far as buff hunting in SA is concerned: some private ranches and set ups leans itself better to buff hunting than others, and unfortunately for most this is a 1 size related 2terrain.
3 proficient guide related issue.

Like any hunt in Tanzania, Zim or Moz a hunt needs to be presented and conducted in the correct manner, creating an experience, discussions with regards to the quarry you are Hunting, and creating the correct anticipation or rather expectation, entertaining a client that comes with his double to have his dream hunt and experience.
The two quick shots, and possibly a 3rd and 4th.

As was touched on in the donation thread I believe experiences can be short sold especially on the DG side.

There are private ranches in SA with high fences that provide a hunting experience equal to any free roaming area in Africa and in certain areas and instances allot tougher to say the least, there are no guarantees.

What we often confuse I believe.....having extensively hunted both, are free roaming areas on which quotas have been set to high for the last 20 years and one struggles to harvest a solid bossed bull in a 10 day period and often need to knock any hard bossed bull you are fortunate enough to see.....

Does this create a better hunting experience than a high fenced well managed ranch with wild buffalo "not feed bowl addicts"....on it.....
I THINK NOT...
Each to his own though, point is simple I believe (from my own side, having hunted and extensively and continually hunting both) that no blanket statement should and could be made with regards to hunting buff in SA, as far as shape and curl goes...

Some drop but Boss (solid) is my pick with experience being my only pre requisite.... We must remember it's no walmart.

My best always

 

[jand]

on a recent hunt in the Balule game reserve in South Africa we came across the remains of this old warrior.

Old and worn smooth bosses with worn tips. This is the ultimate Buffalo in my opinion.

 

[sestoppelman]

I have hunted two buffalo, one in Tanzania in 1985 (first day!), and one in Botswana in 1990 in the Okavango. Both were relatively easy. TZ buff was late on the first day, plugged him a bit high, PH and I followed up and both fired our .375's, buff hunt over. Bots buff, taken from moving herd about 140 yds, leaning against a tree for brace, dropped him with one shot. Easy. As to horns, my TZ buff is wider, more classic looking. Bots buff has a nice shape but not very wide, but has tighter bosses. I like them both. Due to their ease of taking however I don't actually prize them as much as other animals I have taken that made me work harder.

 

[spoonieduck]

I was wondering what would AH members who have hunted Buffalo before and those dreaming of hunting the Darn old Dagga Boys regard as the perfect horn shape and horn size for a trophy hunter? Maybe post some pictures of bulls you regard close to perfect.

What size and shape horns would have you pleased, and what are you prepared to pay for a good representative trophy?

Would like to hear from you'all!

Heavy boss, reasonable width--over 38 inches, preferably more. I have an old acquaintance, a PH himself, who owns a lot of property including numerous [100?] buffalo. His bulls are exceptionally massive in the body [excellent feed conditions] and many have exceptional bosses. He told me he would charge me R100,000.00 for a bull of 38-41 inches. The daily rate for the skillful and likable PH who actually accompanied us during our hunting, was cheap. Can Tootabi better this?

I've shot several cape buffalo in old Rhodesia/Zimbabwe but my son has never taken one. Besides I wanted to see what my Weatherby .416 using a Barnes X, 400 grain hollow point [followed up by solids] would do on one of these big bulls. My acquaintance--the ranch owner--insisted on accompanying us during the buffalo hunt. He has some large breeder bulls that he doesn't want shot. Unfortunately, we had a freak accident on our first afternoon looking for buffalo. My son shot a good kudu at 54 inches. As five of us--tracker, ranch owner, PH, myself and son--were loading the kudu, an nyala ram with horn tips cut off approached us stiff-legged with mane erect. It turns out that this buck had been hand-reared by the ranch owner but, as it matured, it became mean. The ranch owner cut its horn tips off and released it onto his ranch as a breeder.

Therefore this particular nyala has no fear of man but retains all of a male nyala's territoriality and aggression. The owner told me and my son to get on the back of the bakke and help pull the kudu up while he and the two others pushed the kudu from the ground. Pulling, I glanced away from the nyala when it was about 25 feet away. BANG! The body of the ranch owner hit the side of the bakke hard. The ram had launched a sudden charge from 25 feet. I looked down and the nyala had my friend pinned between the ground and our vehicle, grinding him down and attempting to gore him. The PH and tracker jumped on the nyala, grabbing it by the horns and wrestling it away. My friend was injured, banged hard in the side of the knee and scraped in the belly by the horns. If the animal's horns hadn't been cut, my friend would have been gutted.

We never got to hunt buffalo again on the trip. By the time the ranch owner recovered enough to accompany us again [and he did insist on accompanying us and our PH], we had to go to Natal. He told me as we left "Now you have a reason to come back here next hunting season." God willing, we probably will come back next season but if you can improve on my friend's offer, I'd be willing to talk.

 

[sestoppelman]

I hate to say this but the fact that the land owner was injured should not have impacted YOUR buff hunt in that way. You should have been allowed to continue without him.

 

[Velo Dog]

Heavy boss, reasonable width--over 38 inches, preferably more. I have an old acquaintance, a PH himself, who owns a lot of property including numerous [100?] buffalo. His bulls are exceptionally massive in the body [excellent feed conditions] and many have exceptional bosses. He told me he would charge me R100,000.00 for a bull of 38-41 inches. The daily rate for the skillful and likable PH who actually accompanied us during our hunting, was cheap. Can Tootabi better this?

I've shot several cape buffalo in old Rhodesia/Zimbabwe but my son has never taken one. Besides I wanted to see what my Weatherby .416 using a Barnes X, 400 grain hollow point [followed up by solids] would do on one of these big bulls. My acquaintance--the ranch owner--insisted on accompanying us during the buffalo hunt. He has some large breeder bulls that he doesn't want shot. Unfortunately, we had a freak accident on our first afternoon looking for buffalo. My son shot a good kudu at 54 inches. As five of us--tracker, ranch owner, PH, myself and son--were loading the kudu, an nyala ram with horn tips cut off approached us stiff-legged with mane erect. It turns out that this buck had been hand-reared by the ranch owner but, as it matured, it became mean. The ranch owner cut its horn tips off and released it onto his ranch as a breeder.

Therefore this particular nyala has no fear of man but retains all of a male nyala's territoriality and aggression. The owner told me and my son to get on the back of the bakke and help pull the kudu up while he and the two others pushed the kudu from the ground. Pulling, I glanced away from the nyala when it was about 25 feet away. BANG! The body of the ranch owner hit the side of the bakke hard. The ram had launched a sudden charge from 25 feet. I looked down and the nyala had my friend pinned between the ground and our vehicle, grinding him down and attempting to gore him. The PH and tracker jumped on the nyala, grabbing it by the horns and wrestling it away. My friend was injured, banged hard in the side of the knee and scraped in the belly by the horns. If the animal's horns hadn't been cut, my friend would have been gutted.

We never got to hunt buffalo again on the trip. By the time the ranch owner recovered enough to accompany us again [and he did insist on accompanying us and our PH], we had to go to Natal. He told me as we left "Now you have a reason to come back here next hunting season." God willing, we probably will come back next season but if you can improve on my friend's offer, I'd be willing to talk.

Spoonieduck,

I'm with Sestoppelman on this.
In other words, I seriously doubt that Tootabi Safari Company would leave you in the lurch / cancel your hunt, simply because some land owner managed to get his butt kicked, by his own pet antelope.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[spoonieduck]

Spoonieduck,

I'm with Sestoppelman on this.
In other words, I seriously doubt that Tootabi Safari Company would leave you in the lurch / cancel your hunt, simply because some land owner managed to get his butt kicked, by his own pet antelope.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Sestopol and Velo,

I couldn't agree more. The injury was part of the problem but there was more that I didn't go in to. The reason the rancher insisted on going with us is because he feared that we might mistakenly shoot one of his very valuable breed bulls or maybe even one of his even more valuable cow buffalo. As I write, the auction prices for certain live game species--color phase impala, wildebeest and springbok--is going through the roof. Certain "wild-type" game such as Livingstone eland and "disease free" Cape Buffalo [no tuberculosis or brucellosis] have participated in this price escalation. Most disease-free buffalo originated from a small herd in Addo Park in the Cape. Interestingly, these animals and their progeny are unusually nocturnal probably because more vulnerable, diurnal buffalo were shot out of the Cape many years ago.

I was on another fellow's ranch in Natal. He's heavy into game breeding to include buffalo, wildebeest, eland and color-phase impala. He has a 51-52 inch bull buffalo that is breeding a herd of cows. I was told that the cow buffalo are worth--get this--$150,000.00 U.S. I didn't even ask about the bull.

On the other hand, entirely wild buffalo in Kruger, Zim and other places are of zero value to breeders. This may include high-fenced buffalo that may have through-the-wire contact with wild Kruger buffalo. Kruger buffalo have a high bovine TB rate [so do the lions that eat buffalo]. It is illegal to sell potentially tuberculous live buffalo onto S.A. game ranches. The law of supply and demand determines that ranched, disease free buffalo will be very expensive into the unforeseeable future. To a certain extent, and although of no value to breeders, completely wild, unranched buffalo along with their trophy fees, will be affected by the price run up on ranched buffalo.

But wild buffalo--even if potentially tuberculous--are more valuable to most hunters who are, after all, the ultimate market and few hunters, indeed, will pay exorbitant auction-based prices on buffalo, "wild" or "ranched". Of course, there is no such thing as a tame buffalo. I heard of a rancher who got a flat tire while driving through one of his large buffalo camps. Concentrating on fixing the tire, he didn't notice a buffalo sidling up behind him. The buffalo bumped him slightly with his head. The rancher thinking, I suppose, to teach the buffalo a lesson, hit the animal between the eyes with a tire iron. It's the last thing he ever did.

 

[Velo Dog]

Spoonieduck,

I understand.

And, speaking of 50-something inch buffaloes, I saw one in The Kruger Park that was just so.

He was spectacular to look at but very disinterested in moving out into the light for us.

Also, on the subject of:
The only thing about wild animals that is predictable is that they are unpredictable - if you get a moment, read the Post; "Death of Bryan Smith" in this forum.

Your .416 Weatherby should be a good buffalo rifle, which is an understatement of that caliber's capabilities.

Mine is the original Rigby version, made up by a Gunsmith to my liking, on the CZ magnum action but I confess that I am too much of a sissy to enjoy the recoil at full throttle (400 gr at 2350 fps) and so, I have been loading it to the good old Pre-War .404 Jeffery ballistics (400 gr at 2150 fps).

At that, even I can enjoy a session at the range with it.

If I ever decide to take it for heavy game, I believe I will have to Cowboy-Up and begin training toward proper Rigby specs because it seems all wrong to hunt heavy game with a classic cartridge but loaded to some other caliber's specifications (I'm a mess, I know).

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[hunting4sanity]

I've only been on one safari, but I plan on changing that as soon as possible. During the one safari I went on, we came across buffalo a couple of times and it definitely got me interested in hunting them someday. These two really intrigued me, just curious to know more from you guys, what is your opinion as far as age, size, shape, etc.? I'm still trying to learn more about them and hunting them is a bucket-list dream hunt.

 

[Sable123]

@BRICKBURN thats the biggest R100 note Iv ever seen!

 

[James.Grage]