Bullet Performance

[ftrovato]

Thoughts and observations on bullet performance?

Is riveting acceptable with solids?

The Story - The buffalo was already dead when this 400 grain solid Barnes bullet (on right) was put into his head from a 416 Rigby at 60 yards. The bullet was recovered in his spine. The velocity at the muzzle was 2400 +/- fps (verified over chronograph).

 

[375er]

How much penetration was achieved? Kind of gets back to the age old question..."at what point in the animals death did the bullet fail"? Others may have opinions but I don't think any bullet will be perfect every time.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Thoughts and observations on bullet performance?

Is riveting acceptable with solids?

The Story - The buffalo was already dead when this 400 grain solid Barnes bullet (on right) was put into his head from a 416 Rigby at 60 yards. The bullet was recovered in his spine. The velocity at the muzzle was 2400 +/- fps (verified over chronograph).

View attachment 657380View attachment 657381

Perhaps, my standards are a little loo lax. But I'd be totally okay with that.

God, I miss the old flat nosed Barnes Banded Solids.

 

[Tex .416]

It plowed through the skull into the spine. Sounds like it worked fine.

I’ll buy the rest of those flat noses if you want to get rid of them.

 

[Red Leg]

My only concern would be on something like a frontal brain shot on an elephant and whether any deformation would cause the bullet to deviate from straight line or lessen penetration.

 

[V.Veritas]

Perhaps, my standards are a little loo lax. But I'd be totally okay with that.

God, I miss the old flat nosed Barnes Banded Solids.

I believe Norma still loads ammo with flat nose Barnes Banded Solids.
I have seen 416 Rigby for sale loaded with them.

 

[ftrovato]

How much penetration was achieved? Kind of gets back to the age old question..."at what point in the animals death did the bullet fail"? Others may have opinions but I don't think any bullet will be perfect every time.

The buffalo was already expired when the bullet was put into him. In terms of penetration I only know that the skinners found it in the spine of the buffalo.

 

[375er]

The buffalo was already expired when the bullet was put into him. In terms of penetration I only know that the skinners found it in the spine of the buffalo.

That was more of a rhetorical question. To answer your question, given that that bullet went through skull and spine and isn't completely mashed is amazing. Is it ideally what you want to see, probably not. Would another bullet fair better? No way to know without duplicate repeat testing.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I believe Norma still loads ammo with flat nose Barnes Banded Solids.
I have seen 416 Rigby for sale loaded with them.

I hope you’re right. Recently, I was told that Norma is loading all of their big bore ammunition with Barnes round nosed Banded Solids.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A couple of questions. First, why shoot it again if it's already dead? Maybe I'm just old school. Guess my PH is too. He never had me do that. Second buff did get a second round although it was almost certainly standing dead. The other question: why shoot it from 60 yards when it's down? The skull on the ground would be a relatively small target at that range. Presumably death bellow was done with? I'm also presuming that shot was off the sticks? I guess you were not concerned about wrecking the trophy? I have seen a buffalo euro skull with a hole in it but that one was out of necessity. Usually finishing shots, even when not really needed, are taken close range after approaching from buff's backside. You must have shot that one head on for the bullet to find its way into the spine.

I don't shoot solids (not necessary) so am no judge of the quality of this bullet after impact. Not sure if that design bullet would even feed properly in my 404. I am sure I'll never need to find out.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

A couple of questions. First, why shoot it again if it's already dead? Maybe I'm just old school. Guess my PH is too. He never had me do that. Second buff did get a second round although it was almost certainly standing dead. The other question: why shoot it from 60 yards when it's down? Presumably death bellow was done with? I'm also presuming that shot was off the sticks? I guess you were not concerned about wrecking the trophy? I have seen a buffalo euro skull with a hole in it but that one was out of necessity.

I don't shoot solids (not necessary) so am no judge of the quality of this bullet after impact. Not sure if that design bullet would even feed properly in my 404. I am sure I'll never need to find out.

If you look up the hunt report the OP made about his hunt in Mozambique, you'll get your questions answered. I don't think he was concerned with wrecking the trophy as you put it. In fact I don't think he could've cared less at the time about the trophy. He and his PH were quite concerned with killing the wounded bull and not having their own skulls wrecked in the process.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If you look up the hunt report the OP made about his hunt in Mozambique, you'll get your questions answered. I don't think he was concerned with wrecking the trophy as you put it. In fact I don't think he could've cared less at the time about the trophy. He and his PH were quite concerned with killing the wounded bull and not having their own skulls wrecked in the process.

Maybe I'll try to find the report. He says it was already dead = head on the ground. Again, the usual practice that I've seen on videos is to approach a "wounded" buff that's head on the ground from the back side and put a finishing shot in the spine at close range ... IF the PH is convinced it's needed. I guess they had reason to be unusually concerned with this particular animal.

 

[ftrovato]

Maybe I'll try to find the report. He says it was already dead = head on the ground. Again, the usual practice that I've seen on videos is to approach a "wounded" buff that's head on the ground from the back side and put a finishing shot in the spine at close range ... IF the PH is convinced it's needed. I guess they had reason to be unusually concerned with this particular animal.

Thread 'MOZAMBIQUE: It Was The Safari of A Lifetime'

Dec 31, 2024

It Was The Dream Of My Life, So Far…

2024 Mozambique Cape Buffalo Hunt.

I landed in Johannesburg, South Africa on the evening of August 30th 2024 at 6:00PM to finally live out what had been my lifelong dream to hunt Buffalo in Mozambique.

I’ve been fortunate enough to hunt all around the United States and Canada, looking for game ranging from peasants and ducks up to caribou and elk. While I will always have fond memories from these trips, the “big one” always escaped me; a chance to go to Africa and join a safari hunt in some of the most rugged and challenging environments on earth...

• ftrovato
• Replies: 61
• Forum: Hunting reports Africa

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[V.Veritas]

I hope you’re right. Recently, I was told that Norma is loading all of their big bore ammunition with Barnes round nosed Banded Solids.

I’m afraid you are correct. I have noticed that Barnes Vortex is loaded with Banded Solid Round Nose.
So the ones that I have seen might have been Norma old stock. It had the bullets from the photo which I’m assuming is the flat nose, correct?
Maybe I should have got the other box too.

 

[ftrovato]

Personally I think the the flat noses lead to more tissue damage and it is claimed they are more likely to not deflect upon impacting bone.
I'm using Woodleigh Hydros in my 500 and If I cant get Barnes flat noses in the future when I need them I'll just restart with Woodleigh or Swifts in my 416 Rigby.

 

[375er]

I wonder if you couldn't kiss those round noses on a belt sander to flatten them out? Should not take enough weight off to change the balliatics. Anyone tried it?

 

[Tex .416]

I wonder if you couldn't kiss those round noses on a belt sander to flatten them out? Should not take enough weight off to change the balliatics. Anyone tried it?

I am thinking a good machinist can trim them and produce consistent results with a high degree of precision. Cutting Edge Bullets makes a flat point solid, but it appears to have a secant ogive rather than a tangent ogive like the Barnes. Tangent ogives usually are much less finicky about seating depth to produce good accuracy and smooth feeding.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Perhaps, my standards are a little loo lax. But I'd be totally okay with that.

God, I miss the old flat nosed Barnes Banded Solids.

@Hunter-Habib
I tend to agree with you
We don't know where in the head the bullet hit. Was it in the boss or a softer part of the skull. Either way slight riveting is acceptable to me. The bullet only expanded slightly but still maintained its flat point and was still found in the spine.
To me the bullet didn't fail the animal died.
At what point do we say the bullet failed if the result was a dead animal be it rabbit or elephant or anything in betwixt
Bob

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Hunter-Habib
I tend to agree with you
We don't know where in the head the bullet hit. Was it in the boss or a softer part of the skull. Either way slight riveting is acceptable to me. The bullet only expanded slightly but still maintained its flat point and was still found in the spine.
To me the bullet didn't fail the animal died.
At what point do we say the bullet failed if the result was a dead animal be it rabbit or elephant or anything in betwixt
Bob

By comparison... check out this 300Gr Hornady Dangerous Game Solid (or rather, what's left of it) which was fired at the shoulder bone/scapula of a Cape buffalo bull, Bobby.

Yeah, I'll take the Barnes Banded Solid anyday of the week.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

By comparison... check out this 300Gr Hornady Dangerous Game Solid (or rather, what's left of it) which was fired at the shoulder bone/scapula of a Cape buffalo bull, Bobby.
View attachment 657834
Yeah, I'll take the Barnes Banded Solid anyday of the week.

@Hunter-Habib
Would love to try the Woodleigh 319gn solid on something substantial.
Lead core, covered with steel then covered with with copper and a flattish nose.
I think that would work well when started out at 2,500fps but that's only speculation. May have to try it in some water jugs one day.
Bob