Can we please stop talking about "flat shooting" cartridges

[Forrest Halley]

Yeah, it's called the "rack". They lay the He-Hive participant on it and tie a rope to his/hers'/its' feet. They then wrap a bungy cord through the "hive". The top portion of the rack then continues to pull the bungy cord until the hive becomes straight hair or the subject cries out "35 Whelen!", whichever comes first?

A guillotine. Shave the head or shave the neck!

No, I recently saw a reference to the .458wm "Ole Clumpy" now that won't do because it won't reach 2150fps muzzle velocity when you have a large boar at your feet in the lignum swamp.

Russ might chime in to remind me it's not 1956 but the stigma stuck sorry mate. I just can't forget reading "Ole Clumpy" knowing exactly what they were talking about.

You are welcome. I coined this phrase.

@CBH Australia and @CoElkHunter
I could see you 2 with a he hive along with @BeeMaa and @Forrest Halley. The four of you with he have would be a real sight.
Chris you are trying to unsee it I'm smiling and chuckling my head off at the vision.
Bob

Don't drag me into the She-He hive business. There are lines good sir, and I'm not gender disturbed...dysphoric or bipartisan. Hahaha

If a 6.5 CM owner has a HE Hive, or man bun hair do, what do 243 owners have, a crew cut? or mullet?

A fine sense of taste in cartridges!

 

[CBH Australia]

@Forrest Halley thank for that. I recall reading it and I can relate to it after reading a ton of information when I owned one. I only sold t to pay for a .375 H&H., It seems that wasn't necessary all you ever need is a .35whelen.

 

[Forrest Halley]

@Forrest Halley thank for that. I recall reading it and I can relate to it after reading a ton of information when I owned one. I only sold t to pay for a .375 H&H., It seems that wasn't necessary all you ever need is a .35whelen.

You know, as a collector/accumulator of various calibers over my short years, the .35 Whelen is a reloader's dream. It uses .357 magnum bullets for plinking and light varmints. I have seen some great 50 and 100 yard groups from 125gr XTP. I'd imagine they would probably explosively expand which is not at all undesirable in thin skinned game.

The problem is that it's not markedly better than a .30-06 and once one owns a .375 it's as niche favored as a .243. I truly wish I had discovered the .375HH instead of the .300WM. My life would have been simpler and the overlap in my safe lesser. Unfortunately I was not a reloader at the time and that was a limiting factor. The great thing about a .223, .30-06, .375 battery is that they can all be rather long legged at different power levels and there are stepped recoil levels as well to go along with the ammunition availability.

With regard to "Ole Clumpy", it suffers from the long memories of the gun shop haters, forum keyboard commandos, and those otherwise pessimistic. The 450 and 400gr bullets do very interesting things with such a case capacity and if we're choosing the right powder, a 500 grain bullet works just fine. Look closely at what the naysayers are carrying as they berate the .458. Chances are that they may well be doing so in order to assuage their own insecurities with a personal choice of something else especially if it has a NE ending to its head stamp. My interest in the Lott was only due to the novelty of a dual ammunition stream much like the .38/.357.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Forrest Halley thank for that. I recall reading it and I can relate to it after reading a ton of information when I owned one. I only sold t to pay for a .375 H&H., It seems that wasn't necessary all you ever need is a .35whelen.

@CBH Australia
Have Whelen will hunt.

 

[Forrest Halley]

@CBH Australia
Have Whelen will hunt...for ammunition!

Ha fixed it for you!

 

[CoElkHunter]

There is a fine line between funny and silly.
I'm still trying to Unsee this. Seeing you with a He Hive would be funny, but still something I would want to Unsee , after I call you silly.

I would happily sit around the campfire drinking and telling lies with you and our Yankie freinds, just leave your He Hive and Toupee at home.

Just bring the Whelen so we can see what it does before we crack a can.

CBH,
Here's another vision you can try to "unsee": You and Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen are scrub bull hunting somewhere in the outback. You look over and Bob is wearing nothing but a camouflage thong and holding his Whelen in one hand and a tomahawk in the other and mumbling something about .243s. Remember, a nightmare is a dream too! Sweet dreams tonight!
Your welcome! Ha! Ha! ha!
CEH

 

[colorado]

If a 6.5 CM owner has a HE Hive, or man bun hair do, what do 243 owners have, a crew cut? or mullet?

Brazilian

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

CBH,
Here's another vision you can try to "unsee": You and Townsend @Bob Nelson 35Whelen are scrub bull hunting somewhere in the outback. You look over and Bob is wearing nothing but a camouflage thong and holding his Whelen in one hand and a tomahawk in the other and mumbling something about .243s. Remember, a nightmare is a dream too! Sweet dreams tonight!
Your welcome! Ha! Ha! ha!
CEH

@CoElkHunter
You forgot @CBH Australia dressed in his pink tutu and ballet slippers playing tip toe thru the tulips to go with it.
Ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Forrest Halley]

You look over and Bob is wearing nothing but a camouflage thong and holding his Whelen in one hand and a tomahawk in the other and mumbling something about .243s.

@CoElkHunter
You forgot @CBH Australia dressed in his pink tutu and ballet slippers playing tip toe thru the tulips to go with it.
Ha ha ha ha ha

Right about this time we discover wildlife can actually talk as a rabbit walks up and says, "You people don't really come out here to hunt do you?"

 

[rigbymauser]

Ofcourse there are "flatshooting" cartridges or calibers really.

Some calibers has a flatter trajectory than others. The term is used in term of a relation. Gravity will eventually win.

 

[CBH Australia]

I would have thought cartridges are more appropriate than calibre.
The faster a given calibre goes the flatter it will be.
That's relevant to cartridge size pushing it faster.
But we all know the 6.5creedmoor is the ducks nuts. I don't subscribe to that theory but anyway.

I like the name rigbymauser tough choice of you had to choose between them.

Anyway, I think 7 mil Cal's are shit hot

 

[Forrest Halley]

I would have thought cartridges are more appropriate than calibre.
The faster a given calibre goes the flatter it will be.
That's relevant to cartridge size pushing it faster.
But we all know the 6.5creedmoor is the ducks nuts. I don't subscribe to that theory but anyway.

I like the name rigbymauser tough choice of you had to choose between them.

Anyway, I think 7 mil Cal's are shit hot

I think the .375 can be very flat shooting if you're willing to load the slick bullet and ride the lightning. It will be quite rude, but those bullets conserve energy better than a Californian with an EV in a rolling blackout.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I would have thought cartridges are more appropriate than calibre.
The faster a given calibre goes the flatter it will be.
That's relevant to cartridge size pushing it faster.
But we all know the 6.5creedmoor is the ducks nuts. I don't subscribe to that theory but anyway.

I like the name rigbymauser tough choice of you had to choose between them.

Anyway, I think 7 mil Cal's are shit hot

@CBH Australia
The manbun is shit hot mate.
99% shit1 1% hot.

 

[shark_za]

not trying to be a sm@rt@rse but l have to disagree because as a bullet exits the muzzle it starts falling straight away as it is slowing down
we make the ark by the way we point the bore above the line of sight that is a straight line
l get what you are saying but l also realise that even though there is no such thing as a flat shooting round the saying is really about a round that shoots pretty flat compared to others

Want to get really technical? Its got nothing to do with its forward speed at first, rather it upward speed away from the earth.
It starts to accelerate towards the earth at 9.8m/s/s the moment it leave the barrel; the slight speed away from the earth (pointing the barrel up a little) needs to be caught up first and it does that at 9.8m/s/s too. so that speed will decrease at 9.8m/s/s till its reaches 0 , at that point it starts to accelerate from the point it reached (still at 9.8m/s/s) till it hits the ground or the target.
The quicker the bullet takes to get to the target the less downward speed it gathers. So short shots = quicker time less "drop" and faster velocity forwards reaches the target faster, shortening the 2nd s in m/s/s.

 

[fourfive8]

“Don’t need no stinkin flat shooting cartridge if you got a flat shootin bullet.“

Forget the mechanics and physics of bore friction, air friction, the 32ft/sec/sec gravitation constant, air temperature/density, curvature of the earth, Coriolis effect, gyroscopic spin drift- Magnus effect…. among others, ALL defeated by the steely-eyed missile man himself, George Herter.

Recounting a blast from the past, I tinkered with some of Herter’s “Finest Ever Made” products back in the 60s. A couple days ago, lo and behold, I found an old box of 30 cal bullets that answers all the ballistics questions ever asked including some never even thought of. I remember loading and shooting some of these but the product lifespan was relatively short, so my experience with them short lived. Some of the older crank reloaders here may recognized these. Yes, there is such a thing as a flat shooting bullet. But sorry Bob, I don’t think they were made in 35 cal so they are truly unobtainium for the Whelen. Here they are:
The world famous Herter's Wasp Waist Sonic Missile-Tail bullet

 

[CoElkHunter]

“Don’t need no stinkin flat shooting cartridge if you got a flat shootin bullet.“

Forget the mechanics and physics of bore friction, air friction, the 32ft/sec/sec gravitation constant, air temperature/density, curvature of the earth, Coriolis effect, gyroscopic spin drift- Magnus effect…. among others, ALL defeated by the steely-eyed missile man himself, George Herter.

Recounting a blast from the past, I tinkered with some of Herter’s “Finest Ever Made” products back in the 60s. A couple days ago, lo and behold, I found an old box of 30 cal bullets that answers all the ballistics questions ever asked including some never even thought of. I remember loading and shooting some of these but the product lifespan was relatively short, so my experience with them short lived. Some of the older crank reloaders here may recognized these. Yes, there is such a thing as a flat shooting bullet. But sorry Bob, I don’t think they were made in 35 cal so they are truly unobtainium for the Whelen. Here they are:
The world famous Herter's Wasp Waist Sonic Missile-Tail bullet


View attachment 489756View attachment 489759

Wow! I had never seen "wasp-waist" bullets before? What appx. years did Herters make them?

 

[sgt_zim]

Ofcourse there are "flatshooting" cartridges or calibers really.

Some calibers has a flatter trajectory than others. The term is used in term of a relation. Gravity will eventually win.

While technically true, inside 300 yards, it's a distinction without a difference, as noted in the chart I published to launch this thread. And as I've mentioned here and on other threads, few hunters have any business pulling the trigger on an animal even 300 yards distant, let alone any further where high BC and high MV begin to make any appreciable difference in ballistic arc. I'd bet most of the hunters in this forum are up to that, but most hunters aren't the members on this board, either.

By no means would anyone ever consider a 9.3x62 a flat shooter. Using the same metrics I did for the original chart, a 286 gr partition fired at 2350 fps would be about 2" low at 250 yards, and about 7 1/2 " low at 300 yards. Certainly less flat-shooting than any of the small bore cartridges, but still flat enough, and certainly with enough energy, to only require a modest elevation correction at 300 yards for something the size of a pig, white tail deer, or black bear.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

“Don’t need no stinkin flat shooting cartridge if you got a flat shootin bullet.“

Forget the mechanics and physics of bore friction, air friction, the 32ft/sec/sec gravitation constant, air temperature/density, curvature of the earth, Coriolis effect, gyroscopic spin drift- Magnus effect…. among others, ALL defeated by the steely-eyed missile man himself, George Herter.

Recounting a blast from the past, I tinkered with some of Herter’s “Finest Ever Made” products back in the 60s. A couple days ago, lo and behold, I found an old box of 30 cal bullets that answers all the ballistics questions ever asked including some never even thought of. I remember loading and shooting some of these but the product lifespan was relatively short, so my experience with them short lived. Some of the older crank reloaders here may recognized these. Yes, there is such a thing as a flat shooting bullet. But sorry Bob, I don’t think they were made in 35 cal so they are truly unobtainium for the Whelen. Here they are:
The world famous Herter's Wasp Waist Sonic Missile-Tail bullet


View attachment 489756View attachment 489759

@fourfive8
From memory they were a dismal failure.
Bob

 

[rdog]

@fourfive8
From memory they were a dismal failure.
Bob

I do not know why we are still discussing this subject, every body should know by now that a 6.5 CM with a 147grain super alloy tipped bullet shoots flatter than a laser with enough energy at 1000 meters to penetrate the frontal Armour
on an Abraham's main battle tank, well thats what i am told by the young camo dressed would be snipers at my local range?

 

[cash_tx]

I do not know why we are still discussing this subject, every body should know by now that a 6.5 CM with a 147grain super alloy tipped bullet shoots flatter than a laser with enough energy at 1000 meters to penetrate the frontal Armour
on an Abraham's main battle tank, well thats what i am told by the young camo dressed would be snipers at my local range?

...and confirmed by the young man behind the gun counter at Cabela's, so the matter is settled. ;-)