Cartridges you just hate

[ftrovato]

I’m not sure if you are serious or just messing with Bob lol But I’m sure you know the 338WinMag can push a 300gr as fast as a 375 H&H…
Bob will tell you a 35 Wheelcart can push a 500gr round as fast as 458 Lott

Bob clearly has a romantic relationship with the 35.

I feel the same way about anything that shoots a .338 bullet. They have always been my mistress.

 

[C.W. Richter]

270. LOL I don't "hate" it. I just get that it was the latest greatest thing back in the 1920s and relic Jack O was selected by Petersens to pimp it for Winchester in his prose. That was a long time ago. Since then, there have been developed FAR better sheep and long range med game cartridges (like the 270 WSM if you like 270 caliber.) Bullet selection was always horrendous, so I went with the better BC/SD hot 264s WM, WSM, Wby and they NEVER let us down on game out to 720 yds. 2 friends in deer camp have 270s and love 'em for typical 50-300 yd deer shots. It's not hate. It's, there's a better tool for the job at hand 100 years later! .338 is like the bigboy 6.5 for bigger things (its ballistics are superior and the WM is just the beginning of case size. It's not even a magnum-<3,000 fps, but I know you can push a 300 grain Barnes Original SP to 2,440 fps in a smaller 270 case (338-06 A-Sq.) Just keep it under 150 yd and you can take everything up to the largest of eland, so the WM, Wby and larger 338s are some amazing weaponry! My choices for PG: Hot 6.5 and 338 (nothing wrong w/ 7, 300-i love em all.) The tracking distance in Africa is nearly always vertical-only with 338s. Same in America for the hot 6.5s, which is fantastic when cliffs are involved!!!

600/700 NE, 950 JDJ? Those are shoulder-folders that anyone should truly HATE!

 

[fourfive8]

How come I knew this was going to get to the magic 700 yard sniper hunting ego shots….

 

[akrifleman]

How come I knew this was going to get to the magic 700 yard sniper hunting ego shots….

Because its the same group that has "It's only hunting if I can stalk so close I can kick them in the nuts, and shoot them with a .22" ego and the same group that requires mockery of anyone who wants to hunt without field artillery ego (followed with recoil insults). Then of course, there are the bushcraft crowd, who looks contemptuously down on anyone who can't live weeks in the bush with nothing but a piece of string and a knife.

 

[rdog]

9x19 9mm pistol useless piece of shit & i hate Glocks. M1911 45 ACP best hand gun ever made.

 

[ftrovato]

Because its the same group that has "It's only hunting if I can stalk so close I can kick them in the nuts, and shoot them with a .22" ego and the same group that requires mockery of anyone who wants to hunt without field artillery ego (followed with recoil insults). Then of course, there are the bushcraft crowd, who looks contemptuously down on anyone who can't live weeks in the bush with nothing but a piece of string and a knife.

I wish I could live in the bush with a knife between my teeth and young legs so I could run shit down! Those were the days….

 

[Sketchy1973]

It's not that I hate the 6.5 Creedmoor or the 338 Lapua. It's just the snipers wana be,that claim to be able to shoot deer at 800 yards. None of the have done it, they just claim to be able to do it.

What I do hate are all of the goofy target turrets on scopes these days.

 

[WAB]

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I wish I could live in the bush with a knife between my teeth and young legs so I could run shit down! Those were the days….

I can relate! I used to paddle the courier de bois and Hudson Bay trading routes. The thought of a canoe and a Duluth pack on a long portage now makes my back hurt!

 

[akrifleman]

I wish I could live in the bush with a knife between my teeth and young legs so I could run shit down! Those were the days….

I once had dreams of running a trapline on skis (Altai Skishoes). Now, on my real trapline, I just hope the satellite messenger reaches my partner to rescue me if the snowmachine breaks down, so I don't have to use the damn things.

 

[ftrovato]

I once had dreams of running a trapline on skis (Altai Skishoes). Now, on my real trapline, I just hope the satellite messenger reaches my partner to rescue me if the snowmachine breaks down, so I don't have to use the damn things.

Good clean living.....enjoy.

 

[C.W. Richter]

How come I knew this was going to get to the magic 700 yard sniper hunting ego shots….

Much time with equipment selection, handloading and practice. Not ego (and way before TV glorified it for all.) Most couldn't do it. And, of course, that's the exception...on varmints, aoudad down in TX in perfect conditions, Mongolia, etc. Most shots in the farm country are under 400 and many more less than that. I myself like to be prepared for whatever opportunity presents itself. Stalking when there's other hunters around during the rifle season doesn't work out so well. Early and late in the season, Yes. And those cannons need not be carried. Quite happy with the smokepole for under 300 yds. (We have some fields that are 1,500 yd long, so it's just 2nd nature for my clan.) Those guns pay dividends when those are the only opportunities provided! I know of a spot where real old-timers stand at a bench across a canyon from a mountainside they glass all day-and take long range shots at deer. I'm not that old yet, but it certainly looks to be a lot of fun. Whatever floats your boat, right?! I'd have come home empty-handed on several expensive hunts had I only carried a .270. Facts. And, I've stalked right up to deer/bear/turkeys plenty o' times with my bow (or .22 mag sometimes w/ the turkeys), so I enjoy the skills involved in many different types of Hunting.

 

[C.W. Richter]

It's not that I hate the 6.5 Creedmoor or the 338 Lapua. It's just the snipers wana be,that claim to be able to shoot deer at 800 yards. None of the have done it, they just claim to be able to do it.

What I do hate are all of the goofy target turrets on scopes these days.

Now you said it. I do HATE the Needmore. Made to fit the AR-10 (Ok, makes sense.) As a hunting round there's so much more steam available to do the job right. All about selling the next best coca-cola to the masses....

 

[akrifleman]

Much time with equipment selection, handloading and practice. Not ego (and way before TV glorified it for all.) Most couldn't do it. And, of course, that's the exception...on varmints, aoudad down in TX in perfect conditions, Mongolia, etc. Most shots in the farm country are under 400 and many more less than that. I myself like to be prepared for whatever opportunity presents itself. Stalking when there's other hunters around during the rifle season doesn't work out so well. Early and late in the season, Yes. And those cannons need not be carried. Quite happy with the smokepole for under 300 yds. (We have some fields that are 1,500 yd long, so it's just 2nd nature for my clan.) Those guns pay dividends when those are the only opportunities provided! I know of a spot where real old-timers stand at a bench across a canyon from a mountainside they glass all day-and take long range shots at deer. I'm not that old yet, but it certainly looks to be a lot of fun. Whatever floats your boat, right?! I'd have come home empty-handed on several expensive hunts had I only carried a .270. Facts. And, I've stalked right up to deer/bear/turkeys plenty o' times with my bow (or .22 mag sometimes w/ the turkeys), so I enjoy the skills involved in many different types of Hunting.

I disagree with the reason. It was rangefinders that changed everything, and high BC hunting bullets that cut wind estimations in half that changed the balance. Back in 1935 with a 300 H&H a shooter could win a match at 1000 yds (known distance). My point being the equipment, handling, practice, and skill are 150 yds old. But, humans are awful at judging distance and wind.

 

[akrifleman]

Now you said it. I do HATE the Needmore. Made to fit the AR-10 (Ok, makes sense.) As a hunting round there's so much more steam available to do the job right. All about selling the next best coca-cola to the masses....

With respects, the 6.5 Creed was designed because two shooters were irritated with case forming the 6XC and brass availability. (donut problem back then) It was designed for competition exclusively and primarily in bolt tube guns. A decade later it became a hunting cartridge de jour.

(edited: I originally said 20 yrs later, but it was only 10 yrs later it became hunting fashionable)

 

[rookhawk]

Excellence is designing the perfect cartridge and then designing an action to accommodate it.

Mediocrity is designing a cartridge to fit into the cheapest, lowest quality, mass produced action possible and then deploying a marketing department to convince the public it’s a great idea. (Yeah, to maximize profit using the lowest cost components)

The 6.5x55 was perfection and so was its action with exactly the length required for it. (Medium length)

The 6.5CM, 375 ruger, 416 remington are all marketing schemes to convince the public to use their very cheapest actions.

That’s what I hate. The race to the bottom on quality trying to use economies of scale.

Just buy the correct action and like magic, the correct proper caliber fits flawlessly just like they all did for a century before needing “improvement” by marketing teams.

A Gibbs fits in a Gibbs. A 416 Rigby fits in a magnum rigby, a 375HH fits in a Winchester magnum long action. A .222 fits in a kurz.

Simple as.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I disagree with the reason. It was rangefinders that changed everything, and high BC hunting bullets that cut wind estimations in half that changed the balance. Back in 1935 with a 300 H&H a shooter could win a match at 1000 yds (known distance). My point being the equipment, handling, practice, and skill are 150 yds old. But, humans are awful at judging distance and wind.

I pre-date rangefinders (i remember the dial parallax-types for archery lol). I could make some really good shots with my old 300 WM (gun accurized and of course using handloads. Archery and woodchuck hunting teach you distance estimation (in 10 or 100 yd increments) and you simply had to learn your crosshairs and use 'em to measure holdover (i.e. 6", 12", 18", 24" typ drop out to 500 yds-handloading w/ 165s could push it to 600.) Strong wind (with NO range flags) forget it back then! Even lead tips are good for 450ish (hunting bullets) yds, so under field conditions, at elevation in the wind, snow, cold, etc. that's still good shooting. I recall the 1,000 yd and 3,000 yd competitions and the victors were 300 WM, 300 Wby and 6.5-300 Wby (a wildcat at the time.) The best 264 variant there is nowadays, although it requires a LA rather than the SA of the WSM/RSAUM variants (which translates into a lighter, smaller mountain rifle). Target shooting and hunting conditions shots are completely different animals! Typically you have your equipment, a rock, a jacket, a pack or some bipods, and that's it....If I don't feel comfy with a shot for any reason, I don't take it. Longest shot I took on game with the older equipment was 400 yds with the 300 WM as a teen, and it was phenomenal. Last day, last hour deer, just came out of the far woods at the end of a field in some very nice winter weather! I don't own that particular farm (we leased it) but when I drive by I smile! I love longer shots! They're challenging. And, I'm certain my ancestors did same during the Revolution, as necessary. It's in my DNA. I don't go looking for long shots, but if one presents itself and I'm carrying the right gun, I'll take it. It's what rifles were designed for (extending the distance over spears and arrows.) To each, their own. No crying.

 

[C.W. Richter]

With respects, the 6.5 Creed was designed because two shooters were irritated with case forming the 6XC and brass availability. (donut problem back then) It was designed for competition exclusively and primarily in bolt tube guns. A decade later it became a hunting cartridge de jour.

(edited: I originally said 20 yrs later, but it was only 10 yrs later it became hunting fashionable)

it's prob be a better alternative than .223 in the AR (for military use.)

 

[akrifleman]

Excellence is designing the perfect cartridge and then designing an action to accommodate it.

Mediocrity is designing a cartridge to fit into the cheapest, lowest quality, mass produced action possible and then deploying a marketing department to convince the public it’s a great idea. (Yeah, to maximize profit using the lowest cost components)

The 6.5x55 was perfection and so was its action with exactly the length required for it. (Medium length)

The 6.5CM, 375 ruger, 416 remington are all marketing schemes to convince the public to use their very cheapest actions.

That’s what I hate. The race to the bottom on quality trying to use economies of scale.

Just buy the correct action and like magic, the correct proper caliber fits flawlessly just like they all did for a century before needing “improvement” by marketing teams.

A Gibbs fits in a Gibbs. A 416 Rigby fits in a magnum rigby, a 375HH fits in a Winchester magnum long action. A .222 fits in a kurz.

Simple as.

I don't own a 6.5 Creed. Never have, likely never will. I'm very content with my 6XC for competition. But get the hate right... The 6.5 Creed was designed to put in very expensive match rifles, not cheap rifles. The goal was extensive throat life, and a specification that used the latest information on case taper, neck height ratio, leade angle, shoulder angle, etc.... Platform wasn't a relative factor. Hunting was NOT A CONSIDERATION. You'd still be right for many other cartridges, like almost everything people have tried to stuff into an AR15, and most of the "designed to fit a Rem long action" cartridges of the past 30 yrs. The 375 Ruger the goal was stated up front to fit (as you say).

 

[akrifleman]

I pre-date rangefinders (i remember the dial parallax-types for archery lol). I could make some really good shots with my old 300 WM (gun accurized and of course using handloads. Archery and woodchuck hunting teach you distance estimation (in 10 or 100 yd increments) and you simply had to learn your crosshairs and use 'em to measure holdover (i.e. 6", 12", 18", 24" typ drop out to 500 yds-handloading w/ 165s could push it to 600.) Strong wind (with NO range flags) forget it back then! Even lead tips are good for 450ish (hunting bullets) yds, so under field conditions, at elevation in the wind, snow, cold, etc. that's still good shooting. I recall the 1,000 yd and 3,000 yd competitions and the victors were 300 WM, 300 Wby and 6.5-300 Wby (a wildcat at the time.) The best 264 variant there is nowadays, although it requires a LA rather than the SA of the WSM/RSAUM variants (which translates into a lighter, smaller mountain rifle). Target shooting and hunting conditions shots are completely different animals! Typically you have your equipment, a rock, a jacket, a pack or some bipods, and that's it....If I don't feel comfy with a shot for any reason, I don't take it. Longest shot I took on game with the older equipment was 400 yds with the 300 WM as a teen, and it was phenomenal. Last day, last hour deer, just came out of the far woods at the end of a field in some very nice winter weather! I don't own that particular farm (we leased it) but when I drive by I smile! I love longer shots! They're challenging. And, I'm certain my ancestors did same during the Revolution, as necessary. It's in my DNA. I don't go looking for long shots, but if one presents itself and I'm carrying the right gun, I'll take it. It's what rifles were designed for (extending the distance over spears and arrows.) To each, their own. No crying.

I perhaps didn't convey that as well as I could. Carlos Hathcock and others proved kills were possible back then for very highly skilled shooters. But, the masses didn't join until rangefinders and high BC hunting bullets.

 

[rookhawk]

I don't own a 6.5 Creed. Never have, likely never will. I'm very content with my 6XC for competition. But get the hate right... The 6.5 Creed was designed to put in very expensive match rifles, not cheap rifles. The goal was extensive throat life, and a specification that used the latest information on case taper, neck height ratio, leade angle, shoulder angle, etc.... Platform wasn't a relative factor. You'd still be right for many other cartridges, like almost everything people have tried to stuff into an AR15, and most of the "designed to fit a Rem long action" cartridges of the past 30 yrs. The 375 Ruger the goal was stated up front to fit (as you say).

Everyone I knew chasing fads went with 6.5x284 which required a long action. Once that fad died, I saw the CM fanaticism and of course they fit in a slightly smaller action.

The 6.5x54MS did it all already in a custom designed rifle and magazine. If I need improvement, the 6.5x55 did it.

I’m skeptical of strangers bearing gifts and any cartridge less than 80 years old.