Cast Bullets. An alternative to jacketed bullets

[Rick HOlbert]

Good day all. As a life long handloader and avid hunter I thought to offer an alternative to those who reload. As all by now have noticed, certain jacketed bullets are difficult to come by at present. What I will present is a way to continue shooting for practice and in some cases hunting as well. Hunting you ask? to be sure. Consider this. Jacketed bullets are a recent innovation in firearms history. Before the advent of jackets, cast bullets were the norm. With modern powders, improved lead alloys and heat treatment, levels of performance have improved. Consider this. Lead has a low coefficient of friction. so higher velocities (within reason) at lower pressures. you also extend your barrel life by a factor of 5.
I used to cast my own bullets but no more. LOL, my environmentalist bunny hugging neighbors would have a stroke the first time I fluxed the lead and besides obtaining wheel weights in my area has gotten difficult. So now days I buy my bullets commercially cast. The folks I get them from produce an excellent product. I use the heat treated alloy rather than Linotype as that metal although hard tends to be brittle and shatter if heavy bone is hit. I also have them size my bullets .001 over groove diameter as this will give a good gas seal along with the gas check. I've pushed cast bullets at 2400fps with no fouling or leading in the barrel. In my younger days I used 30-06's and 308's with cast bullets to hunt deer and always had venison in the freezer.
One of my favorite rounds is the .358 Winchester. (Bob you'll appreciate this) Right now .358 jacketed rifle bullets are non existent. No one has any available. Started going over my reloading notes going back over the years. Hell, if it worked back then why not today. I ordered 200 hardcast FNGC 200grn bullets sized .359. This bullet has enough mass to be effective on deer or feral pigs if an accurate load could be worked up. Long story short, I did hit on an excellent load giving 2380fps and shooting a .70in group at 100 yards. No leading and the barrel cleaned right up no problem. This will be my deer/pig load this coming season. No I wouldn't use it in Africa (although I believe it would work on smaller game) but this load wasn't developed for that. Rightnow I'm waiting on some .375 bullets to try. Should be fun indeed.
The enclosed picture is a loaded round with the cast bullet. Any and comments are welcomed and open to discussion. I hope this proves interesting to all.View attachment 20220606_143728.jpg

 

[7x57Joe]

Hello Rick from North La. I fully concur with you're observation on the bullet situation. I still do a little casting and have some pretty good loads for my .358. A 225 flat nose mold was made for me by a fellow no longer in business and it shoots well in my M.70 Featherweight rebarreled to .358. Hoping this next season to put meat in the freezer. 40.5 grains of 4895 pushes it a little over 2000 fps. The real trick for cast bullet accuracy is to size .0005" to .001" less than throat diameter to guide the bullet into the bore.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Joe, good to hear from you friend. That sounds like a good load you've worked up for your rifle. In .358 I shoot a Ruger 77R (tang safety) that Ruger never cataloged and made less than 1000.
My dear old departed dad started me hand loading at an early age and casting bullets was part of it all. The load I came up with for that 200grn FNGC was 45.0grn IMR4064. I've had good results with IMR-3031 in the past but don't currently use that powder. Does the heart good to know there are others out there who still shoot cast bullets. All the best to you this coming season.

 

[7x57Joe]

Rick that 77 sounds like a nice little lead slinger.
I started in 1977 to use cast in my .300 Savage for deer hunting and killed 2 bucks that season so I was hooked. Used a .45/70 some for deer and elk which worked to perfection. Got a .358 especially to use for cast bullet hunting but, always had a jacketed bullet chambered whenever game showed up so decided to only have cast in it from now on. Never had one problem from armadillos to elk when using cast and never had to take more than one shot per customer. Have a great up-coming season!

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Thanks much Joe. Although as a shooter of a pre-64 Winchester in .375H&H I'm envious of that Model 70 you have. My next project is to work up a good load for that .375. Just received some 280grn FNGC cast bullets. This will give me a good reason to shoot that .375 more and use it here at home rather than when I go to Africa. Gonna be fun!
Take care friend and if you ever get down to the Baton Rouge area get in touch with me and we'll trade loading data over a cup of coffee or lunch. Catch you later.

 

[Aaron N]

Does anyone have experience with cast bullets in a 450/400 3”? I was thinking they could make a good plinking, or even moose load.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Aaron, top of the day to you sir. Sorry I don't have first hand experience with that cartridge. That said, it should be a good choice and performer with cast bullets.

 

[7x57Joe]

Aaron, While I've never had a 450/400 3", there is no reason on earth it wouldn't be a dandy for cast bullet use.

 

[nztimb]

I have had extensive experience with casting in particular with the 7x57 and the 404 Jeffery. Both very accurate and in the 23-2400fps and with the 7x57 a two part bullet with soft nose and hard shank that was an easy 200yd killer on the goats etc that I shot with it. I would have had no hesitation in taking on the largest deer species with it. I have to be away for the day but will get back to this tonight with pics and details

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Rick, thanks for starting this thread. I’ve been a bullet caster for over 50yrs, mostly handguns, some in the .45-70, & am familiar with how a good cast bullet from a handgun can reliably take game. I’m going to follow this thread. I can tell you the .375 handles our Elk well.
Thanks.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Rick, thanks for starting this thread. I’ve been a bullet caster for over 50yrs, mostly handguns, some in the .45-70, & am familiar with how a good cast bullet from a handgun can reliably take game. I’m going to follow this thread. I can tell you the .375 handles our Elk well.
Thanks.

My pleasure sir. I'm looking forward to working up some loads for my 375 H&H with a 280grn FNGC bullet. This way I'll be able to use it when not in Namibia. As I've already stated, I have a great load for my 358 Winchester that will work a treat this coming deer season. Thanks for replying to this thread. Have a great day.

 

[93marlin]

I am trying to find brass and bullets for my new-to-me Ruger 375 rcm.
Brass is the biggest issue. For bullets, yesterday I ordered some cast from a Montana company, I've used their products before in my 500bpe with great results.
When I can find some brass, I'll work up a good load and probably use it for a Canadian bear hunt that's coming up in August.

 

[nztimb]

Getting back to what I started yesterday.
The 7x57 and the 404 Jeffery were where I did a great deal of trials with cast bullets and while it was extremly simple to get 1900fps it was the heigher velocities with huntable bullets that I was mainly looking to work towards so there was experimenting with sizing and various alloys and it was the two part bullet that proved to have the best results on paper and game or me. My hand made gas checks were better than the commercial copper GC's with velocities up to the 1900fps mark but after that the commercial Hornadies worked better. Lube was important and the guys on an invitation only cast bullet forum designed a lube that gave excellent results at high velocity. They were denigrated on the main CB forums but the results they and I were able to produce were a positive vindication of all the experimenting done between us all.
Mold is the older Lyman #287641 with a nominal weight drop of 160 gr dependent on alloy being of a bore riding design.
I was able to nose size which was really only a light brushing of the main body of the nose with more focus on the seams to ensure a perfectly round nose
Using a block of hardwood to creat a depth stop for the nose sizing. Note that sizing is best kept to max .0005 so the best size bullet size to barrel dia is +.0015 and size that to be .001 over barrel dia whether it be a two part sizing for the nose in a bore rider then the shank of for a singular dia bullet for its full bore contact length.

After the nose is sized the die is changed for the shank to be sized gas checked and lubed..
But to go back to the making of the bullet I cast a few in a 50/50 ww/pb alloy for plinking and for the noses I needed for my two piece bullet. I had a brass plate that I used to sit the bullet in and cut to length for a 60 gr weight.

The shank of the bullet is lino so with the pot of alloy and the mold up to temp a pair of soft noses are put into the mold (use of a pair of fine needle nose is a must for this)

The mould is filled with the lino and as it freezes quite quickly the mold is returned to the pot untill I see the frozen lino sprue silverup and know it has induced the nose and the shank to "join together" so they become one.

To cool the mold and bullet to where I could turn it out of the mold I fan going and with wet towel on a chair that a light touching of the mold on all sides quickly has the bullet solid. After a while I got to know the timeing of this and a simple count to --- was enough to know when to open the mold. with the result that I had a 60gr soft nosed, 100gr hard shanked cast bullet ready for sizing etc
Weighing showed a consistent weight that made for no fuss continuation of the sizing process. After loading I dipped the nose in thinned mule snot and put nose down them in a rack till it dried and wiped the drip off the nose and they were ready to go.

Loading was 39gn 2209/H4350 WLR in neck sized cases to give a .0005 neck tension loaded to give a positive engagment of .001 into the lead. Velocity was 2365fps with excellent hunting accuracy.

Adjusting the scope

Results showing 100% weight retention.

From 150 to 200yrds byt the time i got the last one.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Good day all. As a life long handloader and avid hunter I thought to offer an alternative to those who reload. As all by now have noticed, certain jacketed bullets are difficult to come by at present. What I will present is a way to continue shooting for practice and in some cases hunting as well. Hunting you ask? to be sure. Consider this. Jacketed bullets are a recent innovation in firearms history. Before the advent of jackets, cast bullets were the norm. With modern powders, improved lead alloys and heat treatment, levels of performance have improved. Consider this. Lead has a low coefficient of friction. so higher velocities (within reason) at lower pressures. you also extend your barrel life by a factor of 5.
I used to cast my own bullets but no more. LOL, my environmentalist bunny hugging neighbors would have a stroke the first time I fluxed the lead and besides obtaining wheel weights in my area has gotten difficult. So now days I buy my bullets commercially cast. The folks I get them from produce an excellent product. I use the heat treated alloy rather than Linotype as that metal although hard tends to be brittle and shatter if heavy bone is hit. I also have them size my bullets .001 over groove diameter as this will give a good gas seal along with the gas check. I've pushed cast bullets at 2400fps with no fouling or leading in the barrel. In my younger days I used 30-06's and 308's with cast bullets to hunt deer and always had venison in the freezer.
One of my favorite rounds is the .358 Winchester. (Bob you'll appreciate this) Right now .358 jacketed rifle bullets are non existent. No one has any available. Started going over my reloading notes going back over the years. Hell, if it worked back then why not today. I ordered 200 hardcast FNGC 200grn bullets sized .359. This bullet has enough mass to be effective on deer or feral pigs if an accurate load could be worked up. Long story short, I did hit on an excellent load giving 2380fps and shooting a .70in group at 100 yards. No leading and the barrel cleaned right up no problem. This will be my deer/pig load this coming season. No I wouldn't use it in Africa (although I believe it would work on smaller game) but this load wasn't developed for that. Rightnow I'm waiting on some .375 bullets to try. Should be fun indeed.
The enclosed picture is a loaded round with the cast bullet. Any and comments are welcomed and open to discussion. I hope this proves interesting to all.View attachment 471576

@Rick HOlbert
That's what I love about the 35s good cast bullets. I have some 200gn hard cast flat nose but have yet to work out a load. They can be driven upto 2,000fps apparently without a GC. Problem is I have no loads that go that low for the 200s and no one makes them any heavier in Australia.
Bob

 

[F. Vaccaro]

@Rick HOlbert
That's what I love about the 35s good cast bullets. I have some 200gn hard cast flat nose but have yet to work out a load. They can be driven upto 2,000fps apparently without a GC. Problem is I have no loads that go that low for the 200s and no one makes them any heavier in Australia.
Bob

Bob, can you hunt up a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook? Lyman devoted an entire manual to cast bullets.

 

[Huvius]

Does anyone have experience with cast bullets in a 450/400 3”? I was thinking they could make a good plinking, or even moose load.

Ive shot 405gr cast (powder coated and lubed) as well as paper patched in my 400.
They shoot well using Varget and 4198, even black powder, but never did take any game with them.
There are lots of pistol bullets available as well for plinking.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

@Rick HOlbert
That's what I love about the 35s good cast bullets. I have some 200gn hard cast flat nose but have yet to work out a load. They can be driven upto 2,000fps apparently without a GC. Problem is I have no loads that go that low for the 200s and no one makes them any heavier in Australia.
Bob

Bob, I've found starting loads or slightly reduced loads with IMR-4064 or 3031 gives good velocities and accuracy. Don't know what powders you have available in Oz but something in the medium burn rate should do the trick. Damn, wish you were closer. We need to sit over a cup of coffee ( or a good single malt) and discuss 35's. Would be a hoot.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I am trying to find brass and bullets for my new-to-me Ruger 375 rcm.
Brass is the biggest issue. For bullets, yesterday I ordered some cast from a Montana company, I've used their products before in my 500bpe with great results.
When I can find some brass, I'll work up a good load and probably use it for a Canadian bear hunt that's coming up in August.

93, I think you're getting your cast bullets from the same folks I get mine from. Good people and a superior product. As an old student of Elmer Keith I can assure you cast bullets have and continue to harvest game.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, I've found starting loads or slightly reduced loads with IMR-4064 or 3031 gives good velocities and accuracy. Don't know what powders you have available in Oz but something in the medium burn rate should do the trick. Damn, wish you were closer. We need to sit over a cup of coffee ( or a good single malt) and discuss 35's. Would be a hoot.

@Rick HOlbert
No need to live closer mate. I have a phone and I'm also on what's app. If you want we can talk anytime and still have coffee.
Bob

 

[Rick HOlbert]

@Rick HOlbert
No need to live closer mate. I have a phone and I'm also on what's app. If you want we can talk anytime and still have coffee.
Bob

Thanks much Bob. I'm on Whatsapp also. Don't know the time difference, Namibia is 7 hours behind me here in the states. I'll figure it out, LOL. I'll PM you and supply my number. Always enjoy your posts.