Cast Bullets. An alternative to jacketed bullets

[Rick HOlbert]

Getting back to what I started yesterday.
The 7x57 and the 404 Jeffery were where I did a great deal of trials with cast bullets and while it was extremly simple to get 1900fps it was the heigher velocities with huntable bullets that I was mainly looking to work towards so there was experimenting with sizing and various alloys and it was the two part bullet that proved to have the best results on paper and game or me. My hand made gas checks were better than the commercial copper GC's with velocities up to the 1900fps mark but after that the commercial Hornadies worked better. Lube was important and the guys on an invitation only cast bullet forum designed a lube that gave excellent results at high velocity. They were denigrated on the main CB forums but the results they and I were able to produce were a positive vindication of all the experimenting done between us all.
Mold is the older Lyman #287641 with a nominal weight drop of 160 gr dependent on alloy being of a bore riding design.
I was able to nose size which was really only a light brushing of the main body of the nose with more focus on the seams to ensure a perfectly round nose
Using a block of hardwood to creat a depth stop for the nose sizing. Note that sizing is best kept to max .0005 so the best size bullet size to barrel dia is +.0015 and size that to be .001 over barrel dia whether it be a two part sizing for the nose in a bore rider then the shank of for a singular dia bullet for its full bore contact length.
View attachment 472183
After the nose is sized the die is changed for the shank to be sized gas checked and lubed..
But to go back to the making of the bullet I cast a few in a 50/50 ww/pb alloy for plinking and for the noses I needed for my two piece bullet. I had a brass plate that I used to sit the bullet in and cut to length for a 60 gr weight.View attachment 472188

The shank of the bullet is lino so with the pot of alloy and the mold up to temp a pair of soft noses are put into the mold (use of a pair of fine needle nose is a must for this)
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The mould is filled with the lino and as it freezes quite quickly the mold is returned to the pot untill I see the frozen lino sprue silverup and know it has induced the nose and the shank to "join together" so they become one.
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To cool the mold and bullet to where I could turn it out of the mold I fan going and with wet towel on a chair that a light touching of the mold on all sides quickly has the bullet solid. After a while I got to know the timeing of this and a simple count to --- was enough to know when to open the mold. with the result that I had a 60gr soft nosed, 100gr hard shanked cast bullet ready for sizing etc
Weighing showed a consistent weight that made for no fuss continuation of the sizing process. After loading I dipped the nose in thinned mule snot and put nose down them in a rack till it dried and wiped the drip off the nose and they were ready to go.
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Loading was 39gn 2209/H4350 WLR in neck sized cases to give a .0005 neck tension loaded to give a positive engagment of .001 into the lead. Velocity was 2365fps with excellent hunting accuracy.

Adjusting the scope
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Results showing 100% weight retention.
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From 150 to 200yrds byt the time i got the last one.
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There is an easier way to get expanding cast bullets and retain a hard body to engage the rifling. After sizing and lubing the bullets, (alloy not linotype) place them in a pan of water up to where the ogive starts it radius bend toward the nose. Heat with torch until the nose "just" starts to change color then take the heat off. let air cool. The water acts as a heat sink. the body stays hard but you have de-tempered the nose and will now expand like a fine jacketed bullet and no fowling in the barrel.

 

[93marlin]

93, I think you're getting your cast bullets from the same folks I get mine from. Good people and a superior product. As an old student of Elmer Keith I can assure you cast bullets have and continue to harvest game.

I have taken bear with cast.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I have taken bear with cast.

Outstanding!!

 

[93marlin]

Outstanding!!

11mm Sauer double rifle, one 440gr cast bullet!!!

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Bob, can you hunt up a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook? Lyman devoted an entire manual to cast bullets.

Vaccaro, I've got the Lyman cast bullet Manuel. Also have the Lyman 4th edition Manuel. Used to have their 2nd edition (going back to the early 60's) but sadly lost that one in a flood years ago. Let me know if there is any data you need. Be advised though, the data is conservative. Back then they were using Lyman #2 alloy which was slightly harder than straight wheel weights. Roughly Brinnel 11 or 12. Nothing like heat treated alloy which is around Brinnel 22 and can be pushed nearly as fast as jacketed.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

11mm Sauer double rifle, one 440gr cast bullet!!!

That should be a real thumper!!

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Gentlemen for the bottom line consider this. Cast bullets have in the past and continue to harvest game. To those who say they are not a good choice, I ask this question. If not good for game, then where pray tell did all the American Bison go? A sad chapter in our hunting history to be sure. But it does illustrate the point.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Vaccaro, I've got the Lyman cast bullet Manuel. Also have the Lyman 4th edition Manuel. Used to have their 2nd edition (going back to the early 60's) but sadly lost that one in a flood years ago. Let me know if there is any data you need. Be advised though, the data is conservative. Back then they were using Lyman #2 alloy which was slightly harder than straight wheel weights. Roughly Brinnel 11 or 12. Nothing like heat treated alloy which is around Brinnel 22 and can be pushed nearly as fast as jacketed.

I meant could Bob get them for himself. I have used them for years myself.

 

[PerH]

Saw Leverguns on YT tried a 700 grain hc in .45-70, wondered if that same would work in .458 also.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I meant could Bob get them for himself. I have used them for years myself.

Ah, sorry about tat. Misunderstood the message. Mom always said I wasn't the brightest bulb in the box.

 

[93marlin]

That should be a real thumper!!

4 bear for me. It also has some notches in the grip for some other game taken in it's past 128yrs

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Saw Leverguns on YT tried a 700 grain hc in .45-70, wondered if that same would work in .458 also.

405grs at 1700 is enough for me!
700grs WOW!

 

[PerH]

405grs at 1700 is enough for me!
700grs WOW!

Here is the episode of them. Massive thumpers.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Well, next project in the works. I've put together some test loads for my 375 H&H using 280grn FNGC cast bullets. If it ever stops raining so that I'm not knee deep in mud getting to the target butts I'll post the results on how they worked out. Until then folks, keep your powder dry!!

 

[rdog]

I was into bullet casting in the 70s when i was pistol shooting, sold all the equipment, now with my 318 Westley Richards & the Woodleigh fire & hard to get .330 bullets, i purchaced a mold & sizer suitable for the 318 WR & have a lot of lead on hand & need to buy a melting pot to get started again, will properly do some 9.3s as well.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

rdog I know how you feel. It's something you get in your blood and can't quite shake it. Not a bad thing really, brings back memories of a time when things were different. Lee makes an economy electric furnace that works well but RCBS makes a better one that holds twice the lead (20lbs) and will last longer.
Let me know how the 9.3 bullets work as I shoot one of those also. Keep us posted.

 

[rdog]

rdog I know how you feel. It's something you get in your blood and can't quite shake it. Not a bad thing really, brings back memories of a time when things were different. Lee makes an economy electric furnace that works well but RCBS makes a better one that holds twice the lead (20lbs) and will last longer.
Let me know how the 9.3 bullets work as I shoot one of those also. Keep us posted.

Thanks for the info, will get around to it soon, i have to have a knee
replacement before i can do much more shooting & hunting.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

rdog I know how you feel. It's something you get in your blood and can't quite shake it. Not a bad thing really, brings back memories of a time when things were different. Lee makes an economy electric furnace that works well but RCBS makes a better one that holds twice the lead (20lbs) and will last longer.
Let me know how the 9.3 bullets work as I shoot one of those also. Keep us posted.

@Rick HOlbert
Casting bullets definitely gets into your blood especially in the way of lead fumes and heavey metal contamination of your system if you aren't careful. So yes it c as n get in your blood.
Bob

 

[rdog]

@Rick HOlbert
Casting bullets definitely gets into your blood especially in the way of lead fumes and heavey metal contamination of your system if you aren't careful. So yes it c as n get in your blood.
Bob

Yes the lead is something you have to be aware of, but at 75 other things will probably get me first, i will take the risk. My wife threatened to kill me if i buy an other gun

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes the lead is something you have to be aware of, but at 75 other things will probably get me first, i will take the risk. My wife threatened to kill me if i buy an other gun

@rdog
At our age mate I don't even look at use by dates on food. I just pray I live long enough to eat them.
Mate you may have to smuggle a new rifle home and tell her they were a gift from a mate. Mightn't work but what's the worst that can happen
That's right she will kill you