Dangerous Game Hunting and the case for bigger not always being better

[JG26Irish_2]

I am planning a DG Safari and while preparing for this trip I have been absorbing and digesting information about rifle cartridges performance on dangerous game and to be specific for taking Cape Buffalo and certain larger plains animals such as Kudu, Wildebeest and Zebra. Ranges for buff would be 0-100y and for all others 50-350y. Ignoring the very specific needs of the PH to carry a "Stopper" in case a wounded beast charges I am considering which chambering to apply for my hunt. Toward that end can a case be made that bigger is NOT always better? I will offer some comments to start but really want to hear what you experienced hunters think?

• Data presented in this forum by a PH covering over 60 buffalo suggests that the 375 H&H resulted in one-shot-stops about 80% of the time. This included the 9.3mm Mauser and exceeded the results of all other larger calibers.
• If not being applied as a close range DG only rifle the flatter trajectory of the 375 or even the 416 Rigby make them better for longer range shots allowing a better chance of a well placed first shot.
• I do not think anyone would argue that a 500NE would not be a better stopper at 50ft distance and there are inherent advantages of a classic double rifle in making a quick 2nd shot. But I have also seen hunters miss shots out past 50y on buffalo with their doubles. Have also seen them mis-identify the target when hunting with only iron sights resulting in misses or shooting the wrong animal.
• I think most of us would agree that assuming we have chosen a proper DG rifle/cartridge then the importance of a well placed first shot is the most important variable that would determine success.
• The development of cup-point solids has greatly enhanced the penetration of smaller DG rounds such as the 375 which closes the performance gap between it and other larger calibers when applied as a close range stopper.
• The variable of recoil sensitivity is hard to predict. I am not all that recoil sensitive and often bird hunt with a light weight 12ga dbl and love it but also know that after a long day of dove hunting I tend to raise my head anticipating recoil and thus begin to shoot high over my birds. Double rifles or very large caliber bolt guns are extremely valuable and the ammo is quite costly. As a result, few hunters are going to shoot hundreds of rounds thru them. Without that practice it is easy to miss or worse make a poor hit due to anticipation of the significant recoil.
• Often the slower, larger projectiles do not expand with the same authority of the faster options. Comparing a 375 A-Frame or Barnes X in 300g leaving the muzzle at 2550 fps to for example the 458WM running about 2000fps at the muzzle. By the time they hit the animal at say 100y it is not unusual for the expanded diameter of the 375 to be equal or larger than the expanded diameter of the 458. Thus the permanent wound channel may also be larger. These premium bullets like the Swift or Barnes options also improve the terminal effects of the larger calibers but only up to the limits of the velocity they leave the bbl and their ability to expand. If you have seen Swifts bullet display of expansion at slower velocities you know that they do not expand all that much below 1650fps. The big ole 458WM dwindles to that speed at about 200y while the diminutive 375 does not drop below that speed until out past 350y. Based on that data, one could hypothetically expect that at 200y a 375 H&H and a 458WM both loaded with Swift A-frame bullets might expend to very similar diameters at 200y. The larger 458 still has more retained energy at that range but

My original choice was the 416 Rigby since I thought I might not want the recoil from the 458 or larger options. Before I could find a suitable rifle, I came across a nice 375 and bought it, so I have mostly made my choice. I do own a 458 but being limited to bringing only two rifles with me, I am planning to leave the big bore home since it is only really useful (IMO) for the buff and the rainbow trajectory makes using it on longer range plains game a poor choice. I am sure there are many of you who would argue otherwise. I would like to hear your comments.

 

[K E Johnson]

 

[HankBuck]

I am planning a DG Safari and while preparing for this trip I have been absorbing and digesting information about rifle cartridges performance on dangerous game and to be specific for taking Cape Buffalo and certain larger plains animals such as Kudu, Wildebeest and Zebra. Ranges for buff would be 0-100y and for all others 50-350y. Ignoring the very specific needs of the PH to carry a "Stopper" in case a wounded beast charges I am considering which chambering to apply for my hunt. Toward that end can a case be made that bigger is NOT always better? I will offer some comments to start but really want to hear what you experienced hunters think?

• Data presented in this forum by a PH covering over 60 buffalo suggests that the 375 H&H resulted in one-shot-stops about 80% of the time. This included the 9.3mm Mauser and exceeded the results of all other larger calibers.
• If not being applied as a close range DG only rifle the flatter trajectory of the 375 or even the 416 Rigby make them better for longer range shots allowing a better chance of a well placed first shot.
• I do not think anyone would argue that a 500NE would not be a better stopper at 50ft distance and there are inherent advantages of a classic double rifle in making a quick 2nd shot. But I have also seen hunters miss shots out past 50y on buffalo with their doubles. Have also seen them mis-identify the target when hunting with only iron sights resulting in misses or shooting the wrong animal.
• I think most of us would agree that assuming we have chosen a proper DG rifle/cartridge then the importance of a well placed first shot is the most important variable that would determine success.
• The development of cup-point solids has greatly enhanced the penetration of smaller DG rounds such as the 375 which closes the performance gap between it and other larger calibers when applied as a close range stopper.
• The variable of recoil sensitivity is hard to predict. I am not all that recoil sensitive and often bird hunt with a light weight 12ga dbl and love it but also know that after a long day of dove hunting I tend to raise my head anticipating recoil and thus begin to shoot high over my birds. Double rifles or very large caliber bolt guns are extremely valuable and the ammo is quite costly. As a result, few hunters are going to shoot hundreds of rounds thru them. Without that practice it is easy to miss or worse make a poor hit due to anticipation of the significant recoil.
• Often the slower, larger projectiles do not expand with the same authority of the faster options. Comparing a 375 A-Frame or Barnes X in 300g leaving the muzzle at 2550 fps to for example the 458WM running about 2000fps at the muzzle. By the time they hit the animal at say 100y it is not unusual for the expanded diameter of the 375 to be equal or larger than the expanded diameter of the 458. Thus the permanent wound channel may also be larger. These premium bullets like the Swift or Barnes options also improve the terminal effects of the larger calibers but only up to the limits of the velocity they leave the bbl and their ability to expand. If you have seen Swifts bullet display of expansion at slower velocities you know that they do not expand all that much below 1650fps. The big ole 458WM dwindles to that speed at about 200y while the diminutive 375 does not drop below that speed until out past 350y. Based on that data, one could hypothetically expect that at 200y a 375 H&H and a 458WM both loaded with Swift A-frame bullets might expend to very similar diameters at 200y. The larger 458 still has more retained energy at that range but

My original choice was the 416 Rigby since I thought I might not want the recoil from the 458 or larger options. Before I could find a suitable rifle, I came across a nice 375 and bought it, so I have mostly made my choice. I do own a 458 but being limited to bringing only two rifles with me, I am planning to leave the big bore home since it is only really useful (IMO) for the buff and the rainbow trajectory makes using it on longer range plains game a poor choice. I am sure there are many of you who would argue otherwise. I would like to hear your comments.

JG26irish, you’ll get tons of info here and I’m gonna guess most will start with “What can you shoot accurately”? For DG a .375 H&H that hits its mark consistently (under Hunting conditions) is better then a .600 NE “Off-Target” due to a flinch etc..
I know that I shoot my .375 H&H bolt action far more accurately then my .470 NE double - even though both are very accurate rifles. I don’t like to admit it but I just don’t handle the recoil of the .470 NE under “Hunting conditions”….but I’m deadly accurate with it at the Range !

 

[gbflyer]

There’s guys arguing on another popular forum about a M4 being the best brown bear stopper, even though none of them have ever done it. I’d say with that line of thinking all you’ll need is a .243 for African DG.

All kidding aside, I have no experience in Africa. Seems like folks find the .375 to be the minimum standard. I’ve owned and fired them, seems to be a reasonable choice.

 

[375er]

You need to put a good bullet in the right place. Period. Even the great Harry Selby he was very impressed with the .375.

 

[EXECUTIVE HUNT AFRICA]

Hi Sir! Seems like you have everything under control!
When hunting buff, first shot placement is the key and game changer. The 93s and .375 H&H (especially .375) have killed more buffaloes than the normal person has seen in his life. Considering bigger is better, but if one cannot handle bigger, a smaller accurate rifle, is the better choice. Make sure you use well constructed bullets, like Barnes or Hornady DGX 300g. From my experience, Swift A frames are more tend to fail. Double rifles are not in all situations the best rifle to carry. If you hunt PG as well, especially in the Limpopo Province where you don't hunt long distances and animals are in the thickets, the .375H&H is a great all rounder - as long as the recoil doesn't effect you on the long run. I've seen hunters taking 2/3 good shots and then started getting gun-shy for every shot thereafter.

 

[375Fox]

A 375 won’t complete with the energy of the larger calibers, but I really think a scoped 375 that you can shoot well is more valuable than a larger rifle, especially when a kudu steps out after you turned around on the buffalo track. The article you referenced really laid out the case well for the effectiveness of a 375.
Another thing to consider is how much you will practice with a larger rifle. I find 375 very easy to shoot. My 450 I only shoot 3 or 4 rounds at a range session with at least a few days in between because I find the recoil so severe. 416 falls between them but was still more recoil than I considered comfortable. I’m very confident with my 375 at most all shooting positions and situations, but my 450 only certain shots.

 

[375Fox]

Hi Sir! Seems like you have everything under control!
When hunting buff, first shot placement is the key and game changer. The 93s and .375 H&H (especially .375) have killed more buffaloes than the normal person has seen in his life. Considering bigger is better, but if one cannot handle bigger, a smaller accurate rifle, is the better choice. Make sure you use well constructed bullets, like Barnes or Hornady DGX 300g. From my experience, Swift A frames are more tend to fail. Double rifles are not in all situations the best rifle to carry. If you hunt PG as well, especially in the Limpopo Province where you don't hunt long distances and animals are in the thickets, the .375H&H is a great all rounder - as long as the recoil doesn't effect you on the long run. I've seen hunters taking 2/3 good shots and then started getting gun-shy for every shot thereafter.

Do you have any photos of the swift failures? I’ve previously only heard of one failure.

 

[Red Leg]

I own a .404, 500/416, 450, and .470. I shoot them all very well. When I go to Africa, and a buffalo and plains game are the goal, nothing beats the sheer utility of a 300 gr A Frame from a .375. All of my buffalo have been cleanly killed by one of the three .375’s in the gun room along with several land cruisers full of PG.

 

[sgt_zim]

Do you have any photos of the swift failures? I’ve previously only heard of one failure.

Yeah, and I'd be curious to know what cartridge it was fired from, what was shot, and the distance.

Seems to me a 250 gr A Frame fired from a 375 RUM or 378 Wby Mag with an elephant 10' away from the muzzle might do the trick.

 

[AimSmall]

Are there photos of said rifle?

Please share!

 

[Red Leg]

Hi Sir! Seems like you have everything under control!
When hunting buff, first shot placement is the key and game changer. The 93s and .375 H&H (especially .375) have killed more buffaloes than the normal person has seen in his life. Considering bigger is better, but if one cannot handle bigger, a smaller accurate rifle, is the better choice. Make sure you use well constructed bullets, like Barnes or Hornady DGX 300g. From my experience, Swift A frames are more tend to fail. Double rifles are not in all situations the best rifle to carry. If you hunt PG as well, especially in the Limpopo Province where you don't hunt long distances and animals are in the thickets, the .375H&H is a great all rounder - as long as the recoil doesn't effect you on the long run. I've seen hunters taking 2/3 good shots and then started getting gun-shy for every shot thereafter.

A Frames fail?!?

 

[375Ruger416]

375 is an ideal cartridge for a buffalo AND plains game hunt. Would work perfectly on buffalo, kudu, zebra, wildebeest.

You may unexpectedly good opportunities on the plains game when hunting for buffalo. Not sure there is anything better for both. Just in case though, if you think you need a 416 you should definitely buy one and take a 300 magnum or similar with it to Africa!

We’re a supportive group here on AH.

 

[Daisy]

375 is an ideal cartridge for a buffalo AND plains game hunt. Would work perfectly on buffalo, kudu, zebra, wildebeest.

You may unexpectedly good opportunities on the plains game when hunting for buffalo. Not sure there is anything better for both. Just in case though, if you think you need a 416 you should definitely buy one and take a 300 magnum or similar with it to Africa!

We’re a supportive group here on AH.

Supportive of buying more guns!

 

[Puddle]

My last buff was taken at 35 feet in some seriously thick bush with a 300 grain A-Frame out of a 9.3x62mm. Plus one insurance shot (always).

To dang much fun!

 

[EXECUTIVE HUNT AFRICA]

Do you have any photos of the swift failures? I’ve previously only heard of one failure.

Bullet failures are a very sensitive subject and there are too many reasons why a bullet doesn't perform as well as a hunter would want it to, especially when an animal is wounded - specifically a dangerous animal. I don't want to keep track of failures and it's not my intention to badmouth a brand. I've seen many successes with A frames too. I can recall situations where clients weren't happy (like Rick Cox) with the performance or results, but it can be blamed on the shooting ability or the angle the shot was taken from. Maybe if he used a different brand, the results would've been the same. I don't have a problem if a client use A frames.

 

[Daisy]

Bullet failures are a very sensitive subject and there are too many reasons why a bullet doesn't perform as well as a hunter would want it to, especially when an animal is wounded - specifically a dangerous animal. I don't want to keep track of failures and it's not my intention to badmouth a brand. I've seen many successes with A frames too. I can recall situations where clients weren't happy (like Rick Cox) with the performance or results, but it can be blamed on the shooting ability or the angle the shot was taken from. Maybe if he used a different brand, the results would've been the same. I don't have a problem if a client use A frames.

But it sounds like you’re not A frames or bust like many here think most PH’s are?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@JG26Irish_2,

It's very difficult to not arrive at the conclusion that a rifle in 375HH isn't the best all around rifle for hunting in Africa at least. Loaded with good 300gr soft points and you're good for PG to at least 200 yards and for buffalo/lion/leopard (although I'd prefer a lighter/faster bullet for the cats). And setup with 300gr solids you're good for elephant and hippo.

However, to compare the .375HH to the larger bore doubles at 200 yards is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Doubles in my opinion have their place and that place is in close DG hunting. Can they and have they been used for 100 yard and beyond PG? Sure, but that's not their calling IMO.

Now having said all of that, when I head off to Mozambique for a buffalo hunt the summer, my .470NE will be paired with my .375HH. It's hard to think of a better two gun combination for Africa.

 

[Puddle]

Do you have any photos of the swift failures? I’ve previously only heard of one failure.

The very first thing I always think of when hearing/reading about a bullet failure occurring with the .375 H&H is how fast did it leave the muzzle?

 

[375Fox]

The very first thing I always think of when hearing/reading about a bullet failure occurring with the .375 H&H is how fast did it leave the muzzle?

I think the same since my experience with woodleighs, but I’ve never seen anything but picture perfect performance myself from every swift A frame I’ve ever shot from 300 H&H and 375 H&H. The one failure mentioned is only instance I’ve ever heard.