Dreyse 11mm Double Rifle - what did I buy? centerfire or needle gun?

[buckstix]

Dreyse 11mm Double Rifle - what did I buy? centerfire or needle gun?

This came up for sale - I like unusual double rifles, so I bought it. But now I'm hoping its not a needle-gun. I won't have it in hand for a couple weeks. Meantime, Can anyone here tell me what I bought. If centerfire, how does it work? What cartridge would it shoot? Any idea when it was made?

https://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/dreyse11mm-000.jpg

 

[VertigoBE]

That’s a needle gun. Very cool looking as well. Never seen one in double rifle form.

If you don’t want it and want to make a Christmas gift out of it, I’d love to add one to my collection !

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Yes, a needle gun, should be fun experimenting to get it to shoot, need to check it’s still got the needle firing pins. If not a decent smith/machinist could make them.
Gumpy

 

[buckstix]

Well, some think it's a later center-fire cartridge double - a "non-needle gun" built on a needle gun action.

 

[Red Leg]

That is to outward appearances a needle fire action and the rifle is essentially the same as the one below, though yours is a much higher grade and in far better condition. Also it has the rather large "firing pin" holes for the needles that one would expect to see. That said, in one of the photographs, I think I see lifters for a rimmed cartridge (there is no photo that I can see of the chambers which would tell the tale).

I do not know anyone that has gone to the trouble to actually make a needle fire cartridge with its internal primer, but perhaps this is indeed an early centerfire.

 

[buckstix]

Thanks for the reply
I made needle fire paper cartridges for an 11mm French Chassepot rifle. It was a real pain in the @? Really dirty and many ignition failures. That's why I am hoping this is some type of center-fire rifle built on a needle fire frame.

 

[Rare Breed]

That’s a needle gun. Very cool looking as well. Never seen one in double rifle form.

If you don’t want it and want to make a Christmas gift out of it, I’d love to add one to my collection !

what is a needle gun please?

 

[VertigoBE]

what is a needle gun please?

Imagine a paper cartridge, but where the primer is not at the back and exposed, but rather just behind the bullet, in front of the powder. In order for the “striker” to ignite the primer, it would have to pierce the whole casing first. Like a needle going through the length of the cartridge.

It was a short but surprisingly well spread development step in modern cartridge design.

Why the primer was at the front I cannot remember.

 

[Rare Breed]

Imagine a paper cartridge, but where the primer is not at the back and exposed, but rather just behind the bullet, in front of the powder. In order for the “striker” to ignite the primer, it would have to pierce the whole casing first. Like a needle going through the length of the cartridge.

It was a short but surprisingly well spread development step in modern cartridge design.

Why the primer was at the front I cannot remember.

Thanks. I just had never heard of this

 

[rookhawk]

I've met people that actually loaded for pinfire shotguns before, a tremendous pain in the ass but rather cool. But needle fire modern loading is a brand new thing to me. It would be very cool if you could reliably make it go bang and develop a load lethal to deer size creatures. Good luck with your journey.

Knowing nothing about your gun, the action design and bottom lever reminds me of something Collath would have dreamt up. Might need to do some digging on the continent to see if it is feasible to invent needlefire cartridges, or convert the gun to a centerfire version. It may have been converted already as evidenced by the missing strikers?

 

[PerH]

Paper Cartridges

Thanks for checking out my channel! Here you'll find historical shooting with a focus on 19th century black powder military rifles, with the occasional earlier smoothbore or later smokeless powder rifle mixed in, for good measure. Things you will see here: lots of long range rifle shooting...

youtube.com

He used Dreyse rifle in some of videos and he reload and have tools and parts like the firing pin can be found quite easy so they are around


Interesting, Puly which developed the self contained cartridge and rifle or shotgun or artillery piece to fire it tried to sell system to Napoleon . Which was refused due to being new and unproven .

Pauly later had two apprentices one named Lefacheux , the other one was Dreyse .