First Double Rifle On It's Way

[machinistbutler]

I looked through one when I was doing some ipsc shooting in the 90's. My eyes were ok then , didn't see the need . Twenty some years later I am thinking a bit differently. I want to place the best shot I can, and I think the dot type sight would help.

I do want it to look good as well, @Opposite Pole what type of Leica did you like? I have read that the trijicon can distort the color, and the docters have a more neutral color .

Sorry for any thread derail @Aussie_Hunter . I hope we can both benefit from the info from people that have been there already.

Craig in Canada

 

[Opposite Pole]

I do want it to look good as well, @Opposite Pole what type of Leica did you like?

Mine is the Tempus (https://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-News/Global/2018/Leica-Tempus-ASPH).

I bought it for a 11” home defence pump-action shottie but upon mounting it I decided it was too nice to seat in the safe under the bed and also I wanted a bigger dot for it’s intended use. So instead of returning it I got a mounting base for my double.

 

[Opposite Pole]

Here is the Docter sitting on Leica for comparison.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Does anyone have experience of fitting a red dot to a Heym double? I am obviously looking for something as low as possible. If I recall correctly the Noblex Docter fits directly onto the Heym rib using the machined grooves, with a tightening screw on the side. Is that correct? Is there a very low sitting mount for attaching the Kahlas that way too?

 

[rookhawk]

Hi @Kevin Peacocke the majority of red dot "reflex sights" use the German Docter Sight arrangement. For sure examples that do are the Burris and the Kahles, but I've been told virtually all of them use the same mounting system.

So for your Heym, the question isn't what reflex sight to buy, its what mount to buy to affix to the rifle. I don't know what mounting arrangement you purchased with your gun and I don't know what comes standard with the 2021 model Heyms to give you the SKU of what you need to buy.

However, what you need to buy is made EAW or Rechnagel in Germany. No cheap date, you're going to spend $250-$400 and some of the scenarios require world-class gunsmithing that you won't have domestically.

Some examples of these German mounts that work with all the aforementioned reflex sights:

1.) The very best is the claw mount that utilizes the rear claw of a rib-installed claw-scope arrangement for you to swap between claw mounted scope and claw mounted reflex sight.

2.) A quick detach lever. This design works with heyms that have a rebated dovetail in the rib so that the QD can grab the rib.

3.) A pivot mount so it works using the same sockets as a EAW Scope pivot mount.


Download and review EAW's entire catalog (in German) here: https://www.eaw.de/en/weiche/eaw-montagen/service-downloads/ See page 104 for a world of possibilities. If at all possible, get your Heym's made with the reflex mount installed before getting them imported to Africa. In the USA, there are maybe 3-5 people that can install this stuff, all for more than Heym would charge. In RSA and Zim the skills may not exist at all depending on how the rifle came configured and what must be done to the mount for fit.

 

[rookhawk]

Does anyone have experience of fitting a red dot to a Heym double? I am obviously looking for something as low as possible. If I recall correctly the Noblex Docter fits directly onto the Heym rib using the machined grooves, with a tightening screw on the side. Is that correct? Is there a very low sitting mount for attaching the Kahlas that way too?

I realized I may not have answered your complete question. I'm not aware of any high quality reflex sight that "just fits directly onto the heym". All the reflex sights i've acquired are useless for any installation until you spend more money separately on the mount. To avoid confusion, lets call the optic mount I'm speaking of "the scope rings". You still need a "scope base mount" on the heym double rifle. That base mount could be a claw base, a pivot base, or a rebated dovetail that came with your double as part of its rib. You still need the part that connects the docter site to the gun's base mount which is a low profile piece of metal that screws to the bottom of the reflex sight.

Three things you need:

A. Reflex sight
B.) Reflex sight mounting platform that permanently screws to the reflex sight
C.) Scope base mount on the double rifle rib. (claw, pivot, or dove tail)

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hi @Kevin Peacocke the majority of red dot "reflex sights" use the German Docter Sight arrangement. For sure examples that do are the Burris and the Kahles, but I've been told virtually all of them use the same mounting system.

So for your Heym, the question isn't what reflex sight to buy, its what mount to buy to affix to the rifle. I don't know what mounting arrangement you purchased with your gun and I don't know what comes standard with the 2021 model Heyms to give you the SKU of what you need to buy.

However, what you need to buy is made EAW or Rechnagel in Germany. No cheap date, you're going to spend $250-$400 and some of the scenarios require world-class gunsmithing that you won't have domestically.

Some examples of these German mounts that work with all the aforementioned reflex sights:

1.) The very best is the claw mount that utilizes the rear claw of a rib-installed claw-scope arrangement for you to swap between claw mounted scope and claw mounted reflex sight.

2.) A quick detach lever. This design works with heyms that have a rebated dovetail in the rib so that the QD can grab the rib.

3.) A pivot mount so it works using the same sockets as a EAW Scope pivot mount.


Download and review EAW's entire catalog (in German) here: https://www.eaw.de/en/weiche/eaw-montagen/service-downloads/ See page 104 for a world of possibilities. If at all possible, get your Heym's made with the reflex mount installed before getting them imported to Africa. In the USA, there are maybe 3-5 people that can install this stuff, all for more than Heym would charge. In RSA and Zim the skills may not exist at all depending on how the rifle came configured and what must be done to the mount for fit.

Thank you Rookhawk, great information. I heed your advice and will get the rifle shipped with the adapter plate fitted.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Congratulations!

I too just ordered my first double, the same as yours! It is in the mail I hope and should receive it this week.

Now with some help from @Longwalker I hope to figure out a set up for a reflex red dot type sight.

I can't wait to post some pics. I am sure you are as excited as I am! I have heard nothing but great things about the 470 as well.

Mine arrived at my dealer today, had a quick look at it on the way home from work. If it was sat beside a brand new one you wouldn't be able to tell the difference and the wood is much better than I expected. Extremely happy with what I have seen seen of it so far.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hi @Kevin Peacocke the majority of red dot "reflex sights" use the German Docter Sight arrangement. For sure examples that do are the Burris and the Kahles, but I've been told virtually all of them use the same mounting system.

So for your Heym, the question isn't what reflex sight to buy, its what mount to buy to affix to the rifle. I don't know what mounting arrangement you purchased with your gun and I don't know what comes standard with the 2021 model Heyms to give you the SKU of what you need to buy.

However, what you need to buy is made EAW or Rechnagel in Germany. No cheap date, you're going to spend $250-$400 and some of the scenarios require world-class gunsmithing that you won't have domestically.

Some examples of these German mounts that work with all the aforementioned reflex sights:

1.) The very best is the claw mount that utilizes the rear claw of a rib-installed claw-scope arrangement for you to swap between claw mounted scope and claw mounted reflex sight.

2.) A quick detach lever. This design works with heyms that have a rebated dovetail in the rib so that the QD can grab the rib.

3.) A pivot mount so it works using the same sockets as a EAW Scope pivot mount.


Download and review EAW's entire catalog (in German) here: https://www.eaw.de/en/weiche/eaw-montagen/service-downloads/ See page 104 for a world of possibilities. If at all possible, get your Heym's made with the reflex mount installed before getting them imported to Africa. In the USA, there are maybe 3-5 people that can install this stuff, all for more than Heym would charge. In RSA and Zim the skills may not exist at all depending on how the rifle came configured and what must be done to the mount for fit.

Thank you Rookhawk, great information. I heed your advice and will get the rifle shipped with the adapter plate fitted.

Mine arrived at my dealer today, had a quick look at it on the way home from work. If it was sat beside a brand new one you wouldn't be able to tell the difference and the wood is much better than I expected. Extremely happy with what I have seen seen of it so far.

This is so exciting, looking forward to seeing the pictures.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

First batch ready to go 500 Grain Woodleighs

 

[Shootist43]

Aussie Hunter, congrats on your new Double Rifle. I'm sure it will be welcomed as a new member to the family. Acquiring the dies and components to reload almost any caliber in the States is almost an impossibility. Glad to see that you were able to do so in Oz.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Aussie Hunter, congrats on your new Double Rifle. I'm sure it will be welcomed as a new member to the family. Acquiring the dies and components to reload almost any caliber in the States is almost an impossibility. Glad to see that you were able to do so in Oz.

Well for a start both Bertram and Woodleigh as you probably already know are Australian companies so projectiles and brass is always fairly readily available here and I can buy direct from both those companies without going through a dealer. Both fantastic companies to deal with as well, the customer service is outstanding, every time I have place an order with either company the order has been shipped in less than 24 hours. Powder is becoming a little challenging to find at times having said that I haven't run out of any of the powders I use yet and have always managed to keep a relatively healthy inventory.

 

[Arthur Morta]

So I finally purchased my first double rifle last week. I was also seriously considering a Rigby "Big Game" single square bridge in 450 Rigby but in the end decided if I was going to have a big bore rifle for use with iron sights it would be a double.

I looked at a few different brands, Merkel, Krieghoff, Heym and VC, in the end I went with a near new Merkel 140AE in 470NE, the deal was just too good to say no to. I don't know a whole lot about doubles but from nearly all of the info I have read it seems as though the Merkel doubles have an outstanding reputation.

The plan is to use the rifle with iron sights but it's been a long time since I have done any shooting with irons so I may eventually go with a red dot, I will see how I go with the irons first.

I have also spent quite a bit of time researching load data for the 470NE, yesterday I managed to get my hands on a 5lb jug of Alliant RL19! Yep I bet a few of you Americans are a bit jealous to hear that. So at this stage the load plan is Bertram brass, Federal 215M gold medal primers, Woodleigh 500 grain RNSN projectiles and a starting powder charge of 107 grains of RL19 as per the Woodleigh manual. I may try RL15 & RL17 at some point but decided RL19 would probably be easier to use so I don't need to use a filler.

I should have enough time for load development, some range time and a couple of months with it in the field before my next Buffalo hunt in August so hopefully later this year I will be hunting buffalo with my first double.

As soon as it's in my hands I will be sure to post some pics.

I've seen some excellent down range results with the 470NE using Vihtavuori N555 with all the very same components you've mentioned herein.

Have you cronographed these 500gr pills, what velocities are you getting?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well for a start both Bertram and Woodleigh as you probably already know are Australian companies so projectiles and brass is always fairly readily available here and I can buy direct from both those companies without going through a dealer. Both fantastic companies to deal with as well, the customer service is outstanding, every time I have place an order with either company the order has been shipped in less than 24 hours. Powder is becoming a little challenging to find at times having said that I haven't run out of any of the powders I use yet and have always managed to keep a relatively healthy inventory.

@Aussie hunter
I wouldn't have Bertram Brass again if you gave it to me.
I bought some of his 25/303 brass and it wouldn't fit my rifle. A phone call resulted in him saying it was within tolerances what do you expect me to do about it. Get your rifle fixed. The thing is all other commercial brass fits the rifle but not his.
Bob

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

@Aussie hunter
I wouldn't have Bertram Brass again if you gave it to me.
I bought some of his 25/303 brass and it wouldn't fit my rifle. A phone call resulted in him saying it was within tolerances what do you expect me to do about it. Get your rifle fixed. The thing is all other commercial brass fits the rifle but not his.
Bob

Oh well that sucks! Honestly that's the first bad report I have heard. All the brass I have purchased from them has been fantastic also seems to last a lot longer than any Hornady brass I have used.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

I've seen some excellent down range results with the 470NE using Vihtavuori N555 with all the very same components you've mentioned herein.

Have you cronographed these 500gr pills, what velocities are you getting?

Not yet, still waiting on the rifle but I definitely will be putting a few different loads over the chrono to see where they are at.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Oh well that sucks! Honestly that's the first bad report I have heard. All the brass I have purchased from them has been fantastic also seems to last a lot longer than any Hornady brass I have used.

@Aussie hunter
I know of a few others having trouble as well with split necks after the first fireing.
Bob

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Got my hands on my rifle yesterday. Will be taking it out later today for it's first session.

 

[machinistbutler]

Beautiful rifle!!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Got my hands on my rifle yesterday. Will be taking it out later today for it's first session.

View attachment 403050View attachment 403051

@Aussie hunter
Looks almost to nice to take bush but I'm sure you will enjoy it.
Bob