Flying with rifles

[Denvir Tire]

I've been many times, PM if you want to get a coffee in Old Saybrook and ask questions

 

[Tanks]

Bradley via Delta with 1 stop in Atlanta then to Joberg.

Bradley via Qatar with 2 stops, Philly, Doha, then to Joberg.

Newark via United direct flight to Joberg.

If elapsed travel time is a concern then the Delta flight.
If elapsed travel time is not a concern then take the Qatar flight.

Stay away from United and Newark.

 

[Andrew62]

I've flown United from Newark to Johannesburg a number of times, no issues. Two things I suggest, put an Apple Airtag in your checked luggage and gun case, also, take 75% of your clothes and all of your medications in a backpack and take those with you. On my first trip I did not do that, my luggage arrived 9 days later. It only takes on 'f' up like that to learn you need to be taking the bulk of your hunting clothes with you on the way over. Good luck planning your trip!! Andrew

 

[Tanks]

I've flown United from Newark to Johannesburg a number of times, no issues. ...

On my first trip I did not do that, my luggage arrived 9 days later.

Those two statements seem to contradict each other.

 

[Andrew62]

Those two statements seem to contradict each other.

Good point Tanks! My last 6-7 trips have been on United, no issues. When my luggage went missing, was my first trip to Africa, 35 years ago. I cannot recall what airline that was, probably out of business by now. I was just pointing out that taking clothes with you in a backpack is something to consider.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Where problems can arise with baggage are when one has connections with different airlines, e.g. American to Delta. Put air tags or tiles in your bags, load your airline's app to keep track of them.

I flew United out of Newark direct JNB, no connections, and went through there like a dose of salts. Went directly to the customer service kiosk, two of us got all our bag tags, boarding passes, guns checked in and through TSA pre in about a half hour. I will say EWR is a wholesale airport, i.e. best to know WTF you are doing. Reiterate what @Red Leg posted, follow what your travel agent advises.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Just a heads up on flying time, United out of EWR-JNB is the shortest.

 

[wesheltonj]

Bradley via Delta with 1 stop in Atlanta then to Joberg.

Bradley via Qatar with 2 stops, Philly, Doha, then to Joberg.

Newark via United direct flight to Joberg.

I think that flight from Philly to Doha is actually on AA Metal. Not so sure I would want to do the firearm surrender in Doha:

8:52 PMPhiladelphia International Airport (PHL)
Travel time: 12 hr 38 min
Overnight
5:30 PM+1Hamad International Airport (DOH)
AmericanEconomyBoeing 787AA 120


Can you drive to Dulles? More choices.

 

[JimP]

Where problems can arise with baggage are when one has connections with different airlines, e.g. American to Delta. Put air tags or tiles in your bags, load your airline's app to keep track of them.

On my last trip I flew Qatar and had their app on my phone. I didn't get notification that my bags and rifle were on the plane until we landed in Doha, likewise on the flight to Joberg. No notification until after we landed. On my return flights I just didn't even pay any attention.

This may of been a fluke but it happened none the less.

Airtags are nice but you need a Iphone. I don't know if the ones that they have for android phones even work that good.

 

[Franco]

Hi all,
I am trying to book flights for my August 2024 hunt with Limcroma. My wife and I have been in contact with both Gracey and travel express. This will be our first hunting trip to S.A. Ideally we would like a flight with minimal connecting flights and fly a foreign airline if possible. We have heard great things about Quatar, as well as other foreign airlines. Our travel agents are apprehensive with booking flights other than CT(Bradley) due to all the NY(JFK) and MA(Logan) firearm laws. I would like to hear first hand experiences, good or bad, flying out of JFK or Logan? We would be flying into Jo'berg. Thanks!

Well, you asked for good or bad - so here goes.

I've made 4 trips to Africa in the last 5 years, 3 traveling with rifles and ammunition, for the purpose of hunting.

The first of those trips was on Delta/Lufthansa, SFO - Amsterdam - Arusha; booked by Gracie Travel. I have never used either of those airlines or Gracie again. Service on the airlines was horrible, and although Gracie did get all of my paperwork in order, she completely ignored my request for airline choice and routing - citing. "It's too long" or, "That's not the way we do it." She does get the job done, so the choice is yours. Firearms and ammo went all the way without a hitch.


Second trip was with my wife, on Emirates, SFO - Dubai - Nairobi; booked by Patrick Wright while he was still at TWG - Travel With Guns. We traveled First Class on the A380 and it was fantastic.


Third trip was on QATAR, simply because Emirates was not an option. SFO - Doha - Jo'berg - Maun (Botswana); booked by Patrick Wright, now on his own - PWP.
QATAR does not have a dedicated First Class, they offer a Business Class advertised as comparable to First - it's not, but it's OK.
Patrick handled all the paperwork, arranged for transfer assistance, interim lodging, and made all necessary changes to my return when I extended my hunt. All done with email or text. In honesty - I think his mother does all the work and he takes the credit.

Firearms and ammo were checked through to Maun and the transfer in Jo'berg was painless. A prearranged agent was there to assist me through Customs.
There were no issues anytime during the flight with either firearms or ammo.


Fourth trip was a different story. Wife came along for the first 2 weeks, so - Emirates A380 First Class, SFO - Dubai - Jo'berg - overnight then Fast Jet to Vic Falls. Once again, the Emirates portion was fantastic. Jo'berg is where it got complicated.
Apparently, SA now requires firearms and ammo to be inspected - even if only transiting. This requires all baggage to be checked only as far as JNB, because you are now looking at an overnight stay in Jo'berg.
Firearms and ammo are pulled by police and taken for inspection - if and when they find the right guy. This part was fairly straight forward - it just took time.

From here you go to the hotel, then back to the airport the next day to clear Customs, and go through the firearms and ammo inspection all over again. Only this time it's with Fast Jet, and there's nothing fast about Fast Jet. Their counter people have absolutely no grasp of the rules regarding ammo weight. The 5kg limit applies to the ammno, and ONLY the ammo - the weight of the ammo container is not included. I had the counter personnel tell me the ammo case could go, but NOT the ammo, because if they put the ammo in the case it was more than 5kg; and of course, the ammo couldn't go without the required case. It took 2 supervisors, the transfer agent, and a policeman to convince them of the rule.

After a month of hunting in Zim, I attempted to fly to Lusaka on QATAR, I experienced the exact same issue as with Fast Jet. It seems in-country personnel are completely unaware of the proper interpretation of the rule. In this case I ended up chartering a flight from Harare to Lusaka.

I have vowed to never fly QATAR or Fast Jet; I will try to avoid country to country transfers, and never transfer through SA. If I do need to transfer - I will charter a flight.

If you want to contact Patrick or his mom, the number is 210-686-0766. He will have a booth at DSC.

There was one slight delay clearing in Lusaka; Customs people were really friendly and nice, as were the police doing the firearms inspection - then I was told I had to wait for a supervisor.
After about 5 minutes the supervisor appeared, apologized for making me wait - and asked it if would be OK to get his picture taken with my double rifle.

Have a good trip.

 

[Rare Breed]

I booked with @TRAVEL EXPRESS last year. They are great.

Qatar made guns very easy. I flew to Namibia which was part of my choice in using Qatar. I didn’t want to have to over night in South Africa and the transfer guns in SA on my way to Namibia. Overall, Qatar was great option to get to Namibia.

I think if I was hunting SA I would want to do the delta flight.

Hope that makes sense and can help at all.

you will find out it will be about “rear end” time. Delta and Qatar in my experience have given me no problems at all on my rifles…read their rules and do as they detail and no problems. now, i will always choose the most direct trip to Africa. I prefer for example a Delta direct flight at 15 hours to a Qatar 33 hours given their stop in Doha.

 

[Franco]

On my last trip I flew Qatar and had their app on my phone. I didn't get notification that my bags and rifle were on the plane until we landed in Doha, likewise on the flight to Joberg. No notification until after we landed. On my return flights I just didn't even pay any attention.

This may of been a fluke but it happened none the less.

Airtags are nice but you need a Iphone. I don't know if the ones that they have for android phones even work that good.

JimP,

Baggage, firearms, ammo - definitely areas of concern, especially when ammo has to travel separately in it's own case.

As a retired international captain for one of the major carriers, I carry my ID and introduce myself at the counter and to the crew once on board.

Firearms and ammo will be listed on the manifest, and the Captain will have a copy. I have never had a crewmember refuse to check the manifest.

Doesn't do a thing for my bags - but they sell clothes most places.

 

[Hogpatrol]

There is no "rule" on ammo weight other than 5kg. Different airlines have different rules on ammo weight. What's ok on one airline in a single country isn't ok on another airline in the same country. Foreign flag carriers are prime examples as are some U.S. carriers.
The 5kg is an IATA rule that can or can not be followed by any air carrier.

 

[Hogpatrol]

JimP,

Baggage, firearms, ammo - definitely areas of concern, especially when ammo has to travel separately in it's own case.

As a retired international captain for one of the major carriers, I carry my ID and introduce myself at the counter and to the crew once on board.

Firearms and ammo will be listed on the manifest, and the Captain will have a copy. I have never had a crewmember refuse to check the manifest.

Doesn't do a thing for my bags - but they sell clothes most places.

I'm surprised you don't know how the 5kg ammo so called rule works. You are incorrect in your assumption that it is ALWAYS the weight of the ammo. Airlines can make up their own requirements for it to include the weight of the container. BTDT. They DO NOT have to abide by the IATA regs.

 

[Franco]

There is no "rule" on ammo weight other than 5kg. Different airlines have different rules on ammo weight. What's ok on one airline in a single country isn't ok on another airline in the same country. Foreign flag carriers are prime examples as are some U.S. carriers.
The 5kg is an IATA rule that can or can not be followed by any air carrier.

Agreed - however, in both cases the airlines posted the 5kg "rule" on their respective websites. It was local interpretation which caused the problem

 

[Tra3]

+1 for @TRAVEL EXPRESS
I’ve flown Atlanta to Joberg twice. No issues. Africa sky is excellent.

I flew Dulles to Addis to Windhoek once. You save on the overnight in Joberg, but I had to get to Washington for at least a night prior, so it is even. Addis was quite hectic. It worked, but the flight transition was basically a sprint.

I’ll fly Delta from Atlanta to Joberg on the next trip.

 

[Dinsdale]

Hi all,
I am trying to book flights for my August 2024 hunt with Limcroma. My wife and I have been in contact with both Gracey and travel express. This will be our first hunting trip to S.A. Ideally we would like a flight with minimal connecting flights and fly a foreign airline if possible. We have heard great things about Quatar, as well as other foreign airlines. Our travel agents are apprehensive with booking flights other than CT(Bradley) due to all the NY(JFK) and MA(Logan) firearm laws. I would like to hear first hand experiences, good or bad, flying out of JFK or Logan? We would be flying into Jo'berg. Thanks!

I live near a pile of airports, flown from Albany,Bradley,LaGaurdia,Newark with guns once each and many times from JFK(atleast a dozen)

I’m not sure why in CT you wouldn’t go direct to J’berg via Newark. Shortest possible, if you feel you need to fly from Bradley instead of drive the 2 1/2 hrs, make sure you leave enough return transit time as you’ll clear customs in Jersey and recheck luggage for hop home.

Ive use JFK if at all possible but there is no direct J’berg flight there anymore since South African Airways shut down.

Last several trips to Zimbabwe I have used Emirates from JFK because it avoids a stop in South Africa instead going through Dubai to Harare. Fantastic airline, I’d fly if at all possible.

The one time I used an agent out of 8 trips, it was Patrick when he worked at TWG and you couldn’t give me a free trip if it came from that idiot. How do you screw up dates and routing for a simple JFK to Harare booking? Let me tell you he did every way possible several times and zero communications, it was corvid so i figured maybe worth it, it wasn’t.

 

[Franco]

I'm surprised you don't know how the 5kg ammo so called rule works. You are incorrect in your assumption that it is ALWAYS the weight of the ammo. Airlines can make up their own requirements for it to include the weight of the container. BTDT. They DO NOT have to abide by the IATA regs.

Hogpatrol,

Thank you for pointing out variations and interpretations of the "rule", and my failure to point out it is an IATA reg.

Not to get into a debate - because I'm sure we both have better things to do - But I do know how the ICAO/IATA "rule" reads:

IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations Table 2.3.A
Ammunition, securely packaged (in Div. 1.4S, UN 0012 or UN 0014 only), in quantities not exceeding
5 kg gross weight per person for that person's own use. Allowances for more than one person must not be combined into one or more packages.

There are restrictions for certain calibers and types, and as you pointed out - the following note:

The provisions of 2.3 and Table 2.3.A may be limited by State or operator variations. Passengers should check with their airline for the current provisions


Regulations also state ammo must be placed in checked baggage, and airlines and local juristictions may have rules which dictate how and where it is packed, and if it can be placed in the same bag as a firearm.

If the airline simply states the limit for ammo is 5kg, which must be placed in a seperate locked container (sometimes stating containing only ammo) - it only applies to the ammo.

Yes, airlines are free to impose any regulations or restictions they choose.

I have seen it written as:

Ammo must be carried in a locked container not to exceed 5kg.

Ammo must be carried in a locked container, and must not exceed 5kg.

Ammo, limited to 5kg must be carried in a locked container.

I haven't read Emirates in awhile but it used to actually specify the weight limit applied solely to the ammo.

I have never had an issue with any carrier leaving the US, nor have I had an issue in Africa until this last trip.


You do bring up a very important point: You could leave the States with your 5kgs of ammo in it's respective case, and find the rules are different if/when you have to transfer.


As I said in my previous post: The airlines in question stated on their websites - passengers are limited to 5kgs of ammo, they even showed it to me on their computer - the problem was local interpretation.


Interesting side note: I recently went to LA alligator hunting; I had a 357 in a case in my checked bag (which I declared) - no ammo. I presented it at the counter and the ticket agent tagged it and tossed it on the conveyor belt. I was at the gate and got a page asking me for the combo to the suitcase - not for the 357, it was because I had a laptop inside the bag.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I’ve flown with firearms into and out of BDL, BOS, JFK, LGA, EWK, PHL and PVD on Domestic Flights. All are possible, especially with long guns. Travel Express was VERY hesitant to book me through London this year out of Houston and I actually booked that direct. Jennifer is great but can be conservative because she doesn’t want you to have any issues. If there are any she’s right there to help you fix them but if you avoid them you’re an even happier customer.

Below are my comments for each airport

NYC can be a little sketchy and you’ll get some looks dragging a gun case around the city if you take the Train to the Subway and then the AirTrain since it’s faster than an Uber from Grand Central and your gun case won’t fit in most taxis which are also slower. JFK/LGA is my last choice and I’d also avoid a connection here if possible.

BOS very easy, have had no issues but it’s all been domestic. This would probably be my 2nd choice of routes and first if Delta was out because you want foreign. Qatar has a flight to Doha from BOS.

BDL is the easiest and you have 2 options;
1) foreign airline like Qatar, but you’ll have an extra connection going foreign carrier and that will also mean an airline carrier change (DFW, ORD, PHL). Choice 4
2) BDL to ATL to JNB on Delta is probably the easiest route. I’ve flown ATL to JNB and it’s not bad, especially if you get upgraded like I did. It’d be my first choice. If you have the Delta Card you can also build some miles between now and then for upgrades and stuff.

EWK with United wouldn’t be bad since it’s direct and add in that drive it’s going to be the shortest route time wise. I personally haven’t had the greatest track history with United Flights, especially with firearms (I’ve had to threaten reporting a firearm stolen by them to the ATF on two occasions). For this reason it’s my 5th choice.

PHL drive is longest, but you can take Qatar out of here and avoid the airline carrier switch out of BDL when you connect domestically. This would remove 1 area where there’s a chance of issues. Choice number 3 for me because it’s going to be shorter in the long run than BDL-PHL-DOH-JNB with layovers. The drive home will suck and I’d advise a hotel the night you land in PHL before driving home.

PVD will be the same situation as BDL but across the board so unless you’re taking the Delta flight and the departure is more convenient it’s out to me.

Is New Haven up and running again? They used to fly to Philly a lot and it’s the same scenario as BDL but if you’re close it’s a fraction of the size of BDL and security was always a breeze.

Hopefully this answers your questions and gives you some options to think about. You do also have some options through European Countries (no personal experience). Hunting partners took a flight through Frankfurt from DFW this year with no issues. If you do London on British you MUST leave the states on a British Airways flight not one operated by American. I don’t think there’s one out of BDL, but the big cities should have one but you’re back to the Qatar scenario of collecting guns and rechecking.

 

[Denvir Tire]

In my judgement, whatever problems United may or may not have, the genuine bad actor in this discussion is Newark airport.....
Incredibly long waits for baggage check, gate boarding, security, customs and immigration, luggage return, food court etc are not the fault of United I believe.
Twenty five years ago when I flew regular flights to visit manufacturing/vendors in Europe, Newark was a dismal armpit. Today it's a clean and bright armpit.
Everything move at DMV speed.....