Help with German Proofs/Engraver

[Never Been]

I won an auction on a cool little Ruger Bearcat that I'd like some help with figuring out. The serial number puts it at 1972 production, and I enhanced some pictures of the proof/possible engraver marks.

The eagle with the N underneath is of course the "nitro" proof, while the cross hatched shield is for the Munich proof house. The other shield as well as this odd double w/f mark are lost on me.

The engraving is obviously not master quality, but I figure the crowd here probably has some of the most well versed people in German guns. Anyone know what these two reference?

 

[franzfmdavis]

I have a proof book and am researching it to help find information about the marks you are asking about. So far, I found information for the cross hatched shield.

In short, from the somewhat cryptic description, the manufacturer submits a prototype gun for “Proof of Construction” so that it can be ascertained if the gun can be fired with conventional ammunition.

Your Proof of Construction mark is from Munich:

Im still looking for the other marks.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Double headed eagle is I believe Czech. Interesting.

Edit: Double headed eagle was used in heraldry of many countries and empires since the bronze age. Most notably Byzantine and Holy Roman Empires. Today it is most often associated with Austria or Serbia, both falling under the Hapsburg Austrian (later Austro-Hungarian Empire). It may still be used by cities in the German Empire/Republic. I seem to recall Brno retained the double headed eagle as a symbol because it lies on the Czech border with Austria and its population is predominantly German (i.e. Austrian).

 

[Never Been]

Thanks for reminding me about this thread! I got in touch with a German gunmaker and he was able to identify the engravers mark, this was his reply;

"The stamp it's from Fritz Wendel, Weissenhorn.

Fritz Wendel was a gunmaker and coming from suhl.

After the war he was gunmaker in the krieghoff factory. Later he was a freelance gunmaker in Weissenhorn, it's in the near from Ulm.

Fritz has made a own Herkules - System, like the Herkules from August Schüler.

I know him, he died in the beginning of the 2000 years..."

So the last one I still do not know is the the shield with that looks like an upside down triangle and a 4.

I was actually swapping all the parts around on that gun just last night with some other Bearcats I have to remove the gold accents and get a steel ejector rod housing. Next stops are girrafe bone grips, and French gray finish with inked engraving and fire blue accents. The big question is what to do with the trigger guard. I might have it plated in silver.

Here is the before.

 

[Red Leg]

Double headed eagle is I believe Czech. Interesting.

Edit: Double headed eagle was used in heraldry of many countries and empires since the bronze age. Most notably Byzantine and Holy Roman Empires. Today it is most often associated with Austria or Serbia, both falling under the Hapsburg Austrian (later Austro-Hungarian Empire). It may still be used by cities in the German Empire/Republic. I seem to recall Brno retained the double headed eagle as a symbol because it lies on the Czech border with Austria and its population is predominantly German (i.e. Austrian).

The eagle over N is the definitive German proof mark for modern firearms. The shield in use since 1968, as @franzfmdavis notes, indicates that the proofing was done in Munich. I am unfamiliar what the number inside the other shield may indicate.

 

[Papa72]

The FWW is Frankonia Waffen Wurtzburg, a German gunmaker who is still in business. I believe it was Rookhawk who helped me identify the maker of my .458WM which has the same FWW marking in that vertical configuration.

 

[Papa72]

Correction: should be “Wurzburg” instead of Wurtzburg.

 

[Never Been]

The FWW is Frankonia Waffen Wurtzburg, a German gunmaker who is still in business. I believe it was Rookhawk who helped me identify the maker of my .458WM which has the same FWW marking in that vertical configuration.

I assumed the German gentleman was talking about the W/F mark in his email since the name included two W's and an F (Fritz Wendel, Weissenhorn) but I suppose he could have been talking about the triangle/4 mark. Frankonia appears to have imported firearms and marked them with a mark extremely similar to the one on my Bearcat. I'll shoot them an email, thanks for the lead!

 

[Papa72]

I assumed the German gentleman was talking about the W/F mark in his email since the name included two W's and an F (Fritz Wendel, Weissenhorn) but I suppose he could have been talking about the triangle/4 mark. Frankonia appears to have importated firearms and marked them with a mark extremely similar to the one on my Bearcat. I'll shoot them an email, thanks for the lead!

This is the fWW mark on my .458WM.

 

[franzfmdavis]

I wonder if the upside down triangle in the shield is actually a seven?

Looking at the Munich proof mark closely, it looks like it was double stamped because part of it is off center. it may be that the shield with the number in it was also double stamped making the seven look like a upside down triangle. If the gun was manufactured in 72 subsequently proofed for some thing and 74?


I’ll keep looking around to see if I can find something.