Holt Auction Questions

[Rare Breed]

Need your experience please; I am bidding on a rifle through Holt Auctions. I live in the US. I read their rules but want to see what the forums experience has been please as follows:
1. If I win I would have my FFL gun store send a copy of their license with their ship to address?
2. They charge a 25% buyer premium so I would have the seller tell me the shipment cost, rifle cost plus this premium…any other costs?
3. Do I wire funds to their bank?
4. What kind of costs should I expect shipping from UK to US?

I would also love to hear your actual experience please

as always I am grateful for your response and advice

 

[rinehart0050]

@rookhawk can probably help...

 

[BRICKBURN]

Sadly, no direct experience to assist you.

My first thought would be whether Holts will export and the associated costs.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/firearms-and-export-control-forms

 

[Red Leg]

You are going to need more than a FFL. You will be required to import a firearm into the country through a broker. That will add cost. Golden age shotguns are imported regularly. Rifles may pose an additional barriers. I do not know what you are bidding on, but it is my understanding that no modern firearms may be exported at all. You will want to make sure yours qualifies as an antique or collectible.

As @BRICKBURN suggests, I would contact Holts soonest for any restrictions they or UK may have.

From Holt's website:

NOTE TO OVERSEAS BUYERS:

Please be aware that items classified as Section 5 Prohibited Weapons under UK Law will incur additional shipping charges regardless of their classification outside of the UK.

Please be aware that under current UK restrictions, no modern firearms, edged weapons (or component parts) of Russian origin can be exported outside of the United Kingdom.

For further assistance with any of the above please contact HOLTS Account Department.

These folks might be able to provide some help. https://simpsonltd.com/firearm-imports/

 

[Major Bonkers]

Ok - I have bought and sold through Holts. They are professional and will do a good job but are expensive. The commission that you have quoted is excluding VAT (sales tax) which you ought to insist is not added to your invoice: at 20%, it bumps that 25% commission up to 30%. You are not liable to pay as you are a foreigner to the UK. (Although you will be liable to pay it on import to the US.)

There are effectively two UK shippers of rifles: HGSS (ask for Harry Gordon) and PDQ (ask for Bob Nagra, although I have heard that he has retired). It might be worth asking the likes of Rigby or Westley Richards if you can tag along your rifle with their own consignments to the US shows in January, on the basis that the worst they can do is tell you no in the form of a two-word expression.

The UK export is not a problem. The customs are, in my experience, surprisingly helpful as long as the paperwork is in order (and Holts will see to that).

In answer to your questions:

1 - That ought to be sufficient. I have always found Holts to be helpful and they will advise. If you go through one of the recommended shippers, they will/ ought to deal with the issue on your behalf.

2 - import duty and sales tax. I am not an expert on US taxation! Note that import duty (at least to the UK) will be calculated inclusive of Holt's commission and the shipping costs.

3 - Yes

4 - It is a long time since I imported from the US, and I have never sent a rifle the other way. By way of comparison, the shipping cost of a rifle from the UK to South Africa is roughly £800 - 1,000/ $900 - 1,200 at the moment, I believe.

I would make two other points. If the rifle is for yourself, and you are not looking to sell it on, you have to work out (1) how much you want it; and (2) how rare it is. If you really want what is for sale, close your eyes, grit your teeth, and accept that you may have to pay over the odds.

BUT: the great thing about actions is that they are like busses: you miss one this time, but there's another one coming along later. So if what you are after is not rare, you can accept that you will miss it this time, and something similar will come along later.

Second point: MOST IMPORTANT: get a condition report before you go mad at the auction!

Good luck, and Happy Christmas. Let us all know how it turns out!

 

[sierraone]

I imported a shotgun from London 5 years ago. My import costs were $1400 + .

Might be important to add, I was physically in London when I bought this gun at a central London gun shop. PDQ Exporter (British) sent it to Griffin and Howe in the U.S. I paid all import costs to Griffin and Howe. They sent the gun to my FFL. There was no auction or the premium costs involved.

 

[Rare Breed]

Ok - I have bought and sold through Holts. They are professional and will do a good job but are expensive. The commission that you have quoted is excluding VAT (sales tax) which you ought to insist is not added to your invoice: at 20%, it bumps that 25% commission up to 30%. You are not liable to pay as you are a foreigner to the UK. (Although you will be liable to pay it on import to the US.)

There are effectively two UK shippers of rifles: HGSS (ask for Harry Gordon) and PDQ (ask for Bob Nagra, although I have heard that he has retired). It might be worth asking the likes of Rigby or Westley Richards if you can tag along your rifle with their own consignments to the US shows in January, on the basis that the worst they can do is tell you no in the form of a two-word expression.

The UK export is not a problem. The customs are, in my experience, surprisingly helpful as long as the paperwork is in order (and Holts will see to that).

In answer to your questions:

1 - That ought to be sufficient. I have always found Holts to be helpful and they will advise. If you go through one of the recommended shippers, they will/ ought to deal with the issue on your behalf.

2 - import duty and sales tax. I am not an expert on US taxation! Note that import duty (at least to the UK) will be calculated inclusive of Holt's commission and the shipping costs.

3 - Yes

4 - It is a long time since I imported from the US, and I have never sent a rifle the other way. By way of comparison, the shipping cost of a rifle from the UK to South Africa is roughly £800 - 1,000/ $900 - 1,200 at the moment, I believe.

I would make two other points. If the rifle is for yourself, and you are not looking to sell it on, you have to work out (1) how much you want it; and (2) how rare it is. If you really want what is for sale, close your eyes, grit your teeth, and accept that you may have to pay over the odds.

BUT: the great thing about actions is that they are like busses: you miss one this time, but there's another one coming along later. So if what you are after is not rare, you can accept that you will miss it this time, and something similar will come along later.

Second point: MOST IMPORTANT: get a condition report before you go mad at the auction!

Good luck, and Happy Christmas. Let us all know how it turns out!

So helpful and appreciated!!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

I imported a shotgun from London 5 years ago. My import costs were $1400 + .

Thanks!

 

[Rare Breed]

You are going to need more than a FFL. You will be required to import a firearm into the country through a broker. That will add cost. Golden age shotguns are imported regularly. Rifles may pose an additional barriers. I do not know what you are bidding on, but it is my understanding that no modern firearms may be exported at all. You will want to make sure yours qualifies as an antique or collectible.

As @BRICKBURN suggests, I would contact Holts soonest for any restrictions they or UK may have.

From Holt's website:

NOTE TO OVERSEAS BUYERS:

Please be aware that items classified as Section 5 Prohibited Weapons under UK Law will incur additional shipping charges regardless of their classification outside of the UK.

Please be aware that under current UK restrictions, no modern firearms, edged weapons (or component parts) of Russian origin can be exported outside of the United Kingdom.

For further assistance with any of the above please contact HOLTS Account Department.

These folks might be able to provide some help. https://simpsonltd.com/firearm-imports/

Thanks!

 

[Rare Breed]

Sadly, no direct experience to assist you.

My first thought would be whether Holts will export and the associated costs.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/firearms-and-export-control-forms

Thanks!

 

[rookhawk]

Need your experience please; I am bidding on a rifle through Holt Auctions. I live in the US. I read their rules but want to see what the forums experience has been please as follows:
1. If I win I would have my FFL gun store send a copy of their license with their ship to address?
2. They charge a 25% buyer premium so I would have the seller tell me the shipment cost, rifle cost plus this premium…any other costs?
3. Do I wire funds to their bank?
4. What kind of costs should I expect shipping from UK to US?

I would also love to hear your actual experience please

as always I am grateful for your response and advice

If it isn’t a special, special weapon, you do not want to buy a gun at holts. I’ve purchased shotguns many times at Holts which are much simpler, and they were pre-1899 which is much simpler. Even then, the costs are extraordinary and it does not make any sense unless you’re bringing in a dozen or more. The costs to get it delivered are just too high.

I don’t know the era of rifle you’re considering but I’d definitely call Harry Gordon for info. Whatever the auction cost is in pounds, estimate your delivered costs in USA will be double to triple that in dollars.

 

[rookhawk]

Need your experience please; I am bidding on a rifle through Holt Auctions. I live in the US. I read their rules but want to see what the forums experience has been please as follows:

1. If I win I would have my FFL gun store send a copy of their license with their ship to address? Nope. Your FFL can’t help you here. You need licensed importer. They will send it to uour

2. They charge a 25% buyer premium so I would have the seller tell me the shipment cost, rifle cost plus this premium…any other costs? Metric-tons. VAT. Export permits. Customs fees. Firearm storage awaiting permits. Duty. Importer fees. Engraving of import mark fees. Freight forwarding. Final mile FFL fees. Foreign transaction fees.

3. Do I wire funds to their bank? Yes. But that’s the beginning of your payments. Many others get sent money in order to get the guns delicered

4. What kind of costs should I expect shipping from UK to US? The $400-$600 for shipping from UK to USA is the most trivial of fees you’ll incur.

I would also love to hear your actual experience please

as always I am grateful for your response and advice

 

[Rare Breed]

Thanks. I can get the gun plus a great scope for $2600 US inclusive of their 25% premium. Even if shipping is double I have $5200 in. Rigby 1978 275 in great shape. The least expensive I found anywhere else was $6500 without the $1000 scope. A new Rigby in this caliber starts at $8500 with no scope. Make sense?

 

[rookhawk]

Not really.

$2600, +VAT you must pay, even if you wish to obtain refund later. Plus wire fees. Plus foreign transaction fees. Plus storage fees. Plus export permit fees. Plus Harry Gordon’s fees. Plus freight to the USA, say $500. Plus duty at whatever the harmonized tariff schedule dictates. Plus Firearm import fee, customs clearance, plus engraving fee, then shipping to your FFL, then whatever your FFL charges for a transfer.

In the end, you’ll own a 1978 era Rigby worth about $4500-$5000 in the US with optic.

You have to really want the gun, because you’ll be into the gun way above US market value. 1970s Rigby rifles in 270 and 30-06 often sell at holts for around $1500-1700 with optic (plus hammer premium) The caliber in your example does help its value, but it doesn’t make sense unless you’re bringing over 5-6 of these low to medium dollar guns with the intention of selling 1-2 you like less once you inspect them personally to cover some of your costs.

 

[cal pappas]

I learned the hard way to avoid Holts. I've never received a firearm from them that was as advertised. The worst was an 1876 Winchester with the action rusted shut. Never again.

 

[Major Bonkers]

I'd advise against. During the '80s, Rigby was owned by Paul Roberts and he was making mid-market rifles using CZ Brno actions (it is only subsequently that Rigby moved up-market). It may be that you have a pre-war Mauser Oberndorf action, beautiful wood, and lots of lovely engraving, but frankly I doubt it. Holts will be able to tell you where the action came from.

The other reason for being a bit cautious is that this is a popular deer stalking calibre, and stalking can be quite hard on rifles, being dragged through bogs in the rain and suchlike. It is likely to have seen a lot more action than a safari rifle. I'd ask Holts for a condition report with particular reference to the state of the barrel.

Otherwise, Rookhawk's advice to take your closing bid, transfer it from £ to $, and multiply it by 2 to 3 (I'd lean towards the higher figure) is a very good rule of thumb.

 

[Rare Breed]

Not really.

$2600, +VAT you must pay, even if you wish to obtain refund later. Plus wire fees. Plus foreign transaction fees. Plus storage fees. Plus export permit fees. Plus Harry Gordon’s fees. Plus freight to the USA, say $500. Plus duty at whatever the harmonized tariff schedule dictates. Plus Firearm import fee, customs clearance, plus engraving fee, then shipping to your FFL, then whatever your FFL charges for a transfer.

In the end, you’ll own a 1978 era Rigby worth about $4500-$5000 in the US with optic.

You have to really want the gun, because you’ll be into the gun way above US market value. 1970s Rigby rifles in 270 and 30-06 often sell at holts for around $1500-1700 with optic (plus hammer premium) The caliber in your example does help its value, but it doesn’t make sense unless you’re bringing over 5-6 of these low to medium dollar guns with the intention of selling 1-2 you like less once you inspect them personally to cover some of your costs.

Wow. Thanks so very much!!! I have withdrawn my bid. I want to buy a Rigby in 275. If I understand all the posts. I want a pre 1960 one in good shape. Would that fit your view of buying a vintage gun as has been discussed on the forum?

 

[rookhawk]

Wow. Thanks so very much!!! I have withdrawn my bid. I want to buy a Rigby in 275. If I understand all the posts. I want a pre 1960 one in good shape. Would that fit your view of buying a vintage gun as has been discussed on the forum?

If you want the highest quality collectible model it would be made between the wars. Then it would be based on original condition. Then it would be on case and accessories. Then it would be on additional features like cocking piece aperture sight, etc. And the icing on the cake is always a take-down model.

Nothing wrong with owning the right gun from the wrong era, just make sure you don’t pay the wrong price. 1960-1980 British guns command lower prices and on the average, the quality was the lowest the British makers ever output in that era. Some exceptions exist.

 

[Rare Breed]

If you want the highest quality collectible model it would be made between the wars. Then it would be based on original condition. Then it would be on case and accessories. Then it would be on additional features like cocking piece aperture sight, etc. And the icing on the cake is always a take-down model.

Nothing wrong with owning the right gun from the wrong era, just make sure you don’t pay the wrong price. 1960-1980 British guns command lower prices and on the average, the quality was the lowest the British makers ever output in that era. Some exceptions exist.

Thanks! I have decided to buy one made in 1920 that was refurbished by the Rigby shop in 1960’s buying from a trusted source

 

[rookhawk]

Thanks! I have decided to buy one made in 1920 that was refurbished by the Rigby shop in 1960’s buying from a trusted source

This sounds like a very Nice rifle!