How many people have a 35 whelen?

[jwp475]

I have a 28" barrel on my 1885 Highwall. The Whelen .358 bullets VS the .338 diameter bullets gives the frontal edge to the Whelen

 

[Forrest Halley]

Speer has published data doing 2700 FPS with 250 grain bullet.

They also publish a .338 250gr at 2700 fps...

I am going to check the other calibers in every data set. It's how I avoid...cherry picking...

I'm glad you're actually achieving your goals at Chrono.

Unless you're willing to load those other calibers just as deliberately it's not an honest comparison.

Full disclosure: I own a 300 WM and a few .30-06s and .375s. I have never had a use for a .338 or .358.

Watch next they'll talk about how the .35 is somehow equal or better to the .375. I better not stick to common factory loads. Time to hotrod!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Okay so we'll go ahead and load up those other cartridges 150 fps beyond published data as well and see that there is no magical serum in the .35 Whelen.

Cherry picking refers to the deliberate comparison of a souped up load in one caliber to conventional max loads in others to make it look better than it is. What book does that load appear in?

This is very much akin to the folks that nuclear load a 10mm and want to call it a .41 Magnum.

@ Forrest Halley
We are using published data as put out by speer and nosler.
Yes they are faster than factory loads but then again the old 06 is now faster than the original 150gn load by 200fps and that's in factory loads.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have a 28" barrel on my 1885 Highwall. The Whelen .358 bullets VS the .338 diameter bullets gives the frontal edge to the Whelen

@jwp475
I have a 25 inch barrel and get 2,690 fps round out for 5 shots
Bob

 

[Lee M]

@Forrest Halley
225gn Woodleigh at 2,950fps equals 4,300fpe
250grainer at 2,700fps to 2750 fps equals 4,000fpe.
No tipping the Bundy to far or cherry picking but actual chronoed loads.
@jwp475 has posted photos of actual chronoed loads using the 250 grainer.
Bob

Not saying that the figures you are stating on the 35 Whelen are made up. I believe you. Just that you are not comparing these to similar max hand loaded data for the 338.

I assume you are comparing to factory loaded data on the 338. That is where the apples to apples comparison falls short.

You simply can’t overcome the increased case capacity that the 338 has over the 35 Whelen.

Here are the capacities i just looked up. H2O grains of 86 for 338 vs. 72.6 for the Whelen. That is an 18.5% advantage for the .338. And the BC and SD are better for the 338 for same weight bullets.

There is no magic to get around this.

 

[Lee M]

Speer has published data doing 2700 FPS with 250 grain bullet.

I believe that Bob did post this info in a previous post. Not arguing this is not true. But i do think that most other reloading manuals do not publish these speeds with the whelen.

I believe that Someone on another post a few months ago had some signs of over pressure with a load approaching these levels. I would urge all to be careful and not try to take any cartridge to levels that are pushing the limit.

 

[jwp475]

@jwp475
I have a 25 inch barrel and get 2,690 fps round out for 5 shots
Bob

Published data for 35 Whelen

 

[jwp475]

I believe that Bob did post this info in a previous post. Not arguing this is not true. But i do think that most other reloading manuals do not publish these speeds with the whelen.

I believe that Someone on another post a few months ago had some signs of over pressure with a load approaching these levels. I would urge all to be careful and not try to take any cartridge to levels that are pushing the limit.

If the older powders are used to achieve these speeds you will have pressure problems. The Speer data is using Power Pro Varmint, 2000MR and CFE223 fir these exceptional velocities, no one else has used them in this application to my knowledge.

 

[Lee M]

For what it is worth I mostly shoot a 7mm mag and a compound bow, so i don’t really have a dog in this fight. I’m not trying to defend the 300 or 338 win mags nor am i trying to downplay the 35 whelen.

My engineering background just has me looking at the cartridge capacities and it is simply impossible for the 35 whelen to outperform either of these when using the same weight bullets and loading to max capacities.

H2O capacity
35 whelen = 72.6 grains
300 win mag = 93.6 grains
338 win Mag = 86 grains

There is no science or handloading fairy dust that can overcome this.

It’s not a knock on any cartridge.

 

[Forrest Halley]

For what it is worth I mostly shoot a 7mm mag and a compound bow, so i don’t really have a dog in this fight. I’m not trying to defend the 300 or 338 win mags nor am i trying to downplay the 35 whelen.

My engineering background just has me looking at the cartridge capacities and it is simply impossible for the 35 whelen to outperform either of these when using the same weight bullets and loading to max capacities.

H2O capacity
35 whelen = 72.6 grains
300 win mag = 93.6 grains
338 win Mag = 86 grains

There is no science or handloading fairy dust that can overcome this.

It’s not a knock on any cartridge.

That would be why I was seeing a struggle between the 300 and 338 in certain areas. Interesting...I didn't realize the case capacity was so diminished.

 

[jwp475]

For what it is worth I mostly shoot a 7mm mag and a compound bow, so i don’t really have a dog in this fight. I’m not trying to defend the 300 or 338 win mags nor am i trying to downplay the 35 whelen.

My engineering background just has me looking at the cartridge capacities and it is simply impossible for the 35 whelen to outperform either of these when using the same weight bullets and loading to max capacities.

H2O capacity
35 whelen = 72.6 grains
300 win mag = 93.6 grains
338 win Mag = 86 grains

There is no science or handloading fairy dust that can overcome this.

It’s not a knock on any cartridge.

Since you have an engineering background I'm sure you realize that the same weight bullet in the larger bore has a larger expansion ratio.

Here is 338 win mag data from Speer

 

[Forrest Halley]

The .338 has better BC and SD....and it's 50 fps faster. That's 150 ft-lbs better than the turdy-phive...

 

[jwp475]

The .338 has better BC and SD....and it's 50 fps faster. That's 150 ft-lbs better than the turdy-phive...

And less frontal area I'm getting 2745 FPS out of mine with 64 grains of CFE223

 

[1dirthawker]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen,

cmon bob, we both know that that whelen bullet is just gonna bounce off of game when it hits, kinda like the 45-70

 

[Forrest Halley]

And less frontal area I'm getting 2745 FPS out of mine with 64 grains of CFE223

Grasping at straws there mate. The .35 isn't a belted magnum. I'm glad you're getting what you're getting. The data says 67 grains should be max so why not swing for the fence and beat the .338 once and for all with velocity, muzzle energy and the added .020" of frontal area. Frontal area isn't really a thing with a spitzer bullet at high velocity is it? I could see if it were a large meplat solid or something, but you are subdividing follicles there.
The selling points of the Whelen are:
Necked up .30-06 brass.
.38/.357 plinking rounds.
Variable power level from lightest game to Elk or Black Bear comfortably.

 

[jwp475]

Grasping at straws there mate. The .35 isn't a belted magnum. I'm glad you're getting what you're getting. The data says 67 grains should be max so why not swing for the fence and beat the .338 once and for all with velocity, muzzle energy and the added .020" of frontal area. Frontal area isn't really a thing with a spitzer bullet at high velocity is it? I could see if it were a large meplat solid or something, but you are subdividing follicles there.
The selling points of the Whelen are:
Necked up .30-06 brass.
.38/.357 plinking rounds.
Variable power level from lightest game to Elk or Black Bear comfortably.

Not grasping at straws at all. A belt is good exactly for what? You may want to read the data again Speer lists 64.1 grains of CFE223 as max with a 250 grain bullet. More frontal area is exactly tha More.

 

[Lee M]

Since you have an engineering background I'm sure you realize that the same weight bullet in the larger bore has a larger expansion ratio.

Here is 338 win mag data from Speer

View attachment 425136

No argument with that as one could assume that with similar constructed bullets a larger caliber start with a bigger hole and it will expand more. But that is a separate discussion and i was only commenting on the velocity and energy comments claiming the whelen is superior. Your now added other items to promote your favorite caliber. Also, i don’t think everyone is going to get rid of all their 270s, 7mm, .308 and .338 calibers on the premise that they have insufficient bore/expansion ratio and need to get to 35 caliber or maybe even 375???

Also, I like the 35 Whelen. I’m not a .338 or .300 fan boy. But the statements that the Whelen is a faster, has more energy, or is as flat shooting are simply not true. It will always trail the 300 and 338 mags in these categories if they are all loaded to max capacities and shooting the same weight bullets.

I wish i had a caliber i liked as much as you and Bob like the Whelen. If i neck up the 6.5 manbun to .358 does it bring any of your Whelen magic?

 

[jwp475]

No argument with that as one could assume that with similar constructed bullets a larger caliber start with a bigger hole and it will expand more. But that is a separate discussion and i was only commenting on the velocity and energy comments claiming the whelen is superior. Your now added other items to promote your favorite caliber. Also, i don’t think everyone is going to get rid of all their 270s, 7mm, .308 and .338 calibers on the premise that they have insufficient bore/expansion ratio and need to get to 35 caliber or maybe even 375???

Also, I like the 35 Whelen. I’m not a .338 or .300 fan boy. But the statements that the Whelen is a faster, has more energy, or is as flat shooting are simply not true. It will always trail the 300 and 338 mags in these categories if they are all loaded to max capacities and shooting the same weight bullets.

I wish i had a caliber i liked as much as you and Bob like the Whelen. If i neck up the 6.5 manbun to .358 does it bring any of your Whelen magic?

The Whelen doesn't have the BC of a 300 win but it is faster with the same weight bullets. I'm getting 3280 with 180 grain TTSX. That is certainly faster than a 300 Winn 180 grain. I've owned and shot 300 winn's and 338 Winn decades longer than I've owned a 35 Whelen

But when a 35 Whelen can push a 250 grain bullet to 2745 FPS with a larger frontal area then how is the 338 Winn superior? It isn't.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Not saying that the figures you are stating on the 35 Whelen are made up. I believe you. Just that you are not comparing these to similar max hand loaded data for the 338.

I assume you are comparing to factory loaded data on the 338. That is where the apples to apples comparison falls short.

You simply can’t overcome the increased case capacity that the 338 has over the 35 Whelen.

Here are the capacities i just looked up. H2O grains of 86 for 338 vs. 72.6 for the Whelen. That is an 18.5% advantage for the .338. And the BC and SD are better for the 338 for same weight bullets.

There is no magic to get around this.

@Lee M
No I'm comparing the 338 and the 300 loaded to the same 52,000 cup, 62,000psi in loading manuals that show the pressure as well as load from a disc
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I believe that Bob did post this info in a previous post. Not arguing this is not true. But i do think that most other reloading manuals do not publish these speeds with the whelen.

I believe that Someone on another post a few months ago had some signs of over pressure with a load approaching these levels. I would urge all to be careful and not try to take any cartridge to levels that are pushing the limit.

@Lee M
That is why handloaders do things carefully and work up their loads CAREFULLY. The loads I use are SAFE in MY rifle others may be different.
Bob