I don't bring this up lightly...

[BryceM]

Yikes. There’s stuff here from both sides that seems legit and stuff here on both sides that seems questionable. Just undo the deal, best you can, and move on is my advice. Life is short, and if a few hundred bucks causes so much mental anguish, you probably don’t have enough margin in your life to swim in water this deep.

Some risk when buying a rifle sight-unseen is assumed. That said, using photos taken a year before the sale when there’s additional damage is pretty bush-league. That a quick return was offered is honorable. The haggling over the return shipping/insurance really didn’t need to be aired here. What possible good could ever come of it? As far as I’m concerned, it only served to hurt the reputations of both parties.

As a former admin of an unrelated Internet forum, there is ZERO benefit to the owners of the site or moderators to get involved.

As others have said, I’d want to see it in-hand before making an offer to buy. For a $20k item, a day off work and a flight to have a look seems pretty easy.

 

[275r7x57]

Bottom line is someone agreed in writing to refund someone else for shipping. Now they are refusing to refund the shipping and uphold their end of the deal. Call it whatever you want, justify it however you want, but a man is only as good as his word!

 

[Pilgrim]

This is petty. Making a post about a disagreement over a few hundred bucks, especially when it represents less than 2% of the entire amount?

 

[CZDiesel]

I hate wading into these waters because someone is always going to be upset with you so I’ll not directly address this particular transaction but one of my own.

I have sold and purchased many rifles, pistols, and shotguns online including a nice shotgun from @rookhawk . The felt lining for the shotgun case was old and during shipping had partially fallen apart causing several rub marks to the bluing and one on the wood. No fault at all on @rookhawk part as it was packaged and shipped very well. When it arrived @rookhawk asked if it showed up in good condition. I let him know it did but that the felt lining on the case had come apart and did some minor damage. @rookhawk immediately asked if I wanted to send it back, I told him no I wanted it, he then said he would reimburse some of the sale price and again knowing he was not to blame I told him no I was happy with it and it now had some character…

If I were to sell something of value and the buyer wasn’t happy I’d do as @rookhawk did and try to make it right what ever that led too including full refund with all shipping. Would it make me happy? NO! But in the end I’d whistle through my teeth and spit and send the money…
Why? Not even because it’s the right thing to do in all cases but to me my name and reputation is more valuable than wading through these waters. JMO

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Craig, I described all of the facts as clearly as possible in my post, including the proof that I tried to speak with you about this privately multiple times and that you were the one who cut off communication about this. Regarding the shipping costs, you promised to refund ALL of the costs of the gun and reloading supplies to us, and all of the costs back to you. In several of your responses to this post, you have repeatedly avoided acknowledging this fact, but it the proof is in the original post and I attach it here again for reference:

View attachment 658170

It’s hard to get around your own word…

Time to clean this up. Character amounts for a lot in most people’s world.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'm not going to get into who was wrong and who was right here, but all of this hullabaloo in the end seems to be over a couple hundred bucks in shipping for a rifle sold at around $20K.

Maybe it's just me, but if I were buying a rifle for that much money, I'd use some frequent flyer miles to fly to the sellers place and visually inspect the rifle with my cash in hand. If I like it and buy the rifle, it then gets on the plane with me and be damned the UPS/Fed Ex guys possibly damaging the rifle. If I don't like the rifle, meh, I'm out some time and FF miles or worst case a few hundred bucks for a flight. But at least I avoid all of this hassle.

+1. I'm not in a financial zip code to purchase a $20K rifle, but if I were I would not only visually and mechanically inspect it myself in person but probably have a competent gunsmith check it over before buying it. I know some here on AH wouldn't blink an eye taking a $20-40K rifle hunting multiple times in the bush or their $80-100K Corvette off roading for fun, but for the other 99% of us, devaluation matters when it comes to owning/buying expensive stuff.

 

[N.Moritz]

Thank you! To be clear, so much of what Franz says and shows is absolutely correct with the following exceptions:
1. attached are pictures TAKEN today…a simple wipe of linseed oil took care of the scratches.
2. an iron with a wet cloth took care of the ding.
3. As noted by Frantz, I IMMEDIATELY agreed no hesitation to take back the rifle with reloading supplies and pay the shipping on it back to me which was $164.
4. There is only one single issue and I still stand by it…Frantz wanted me to also refund the shipping and insurance he paid of $375 and I did not think that was fair. Also there was not only nothing wrong with the reloading supplies, my ad said 100 brass and 100 bullets…the actual supplies I gave him at the same cost as my ad ended up being 379 pieces of brass and 729 bullets so I did not think it fair to pay the shipping back

My points are the only disagreements we had…strictly shipping costs

Here is JJs invoice

For my nickles worth, it sounds like the purchaser had buyers remorse.

I know that if it was a firearm that I truly wanted I would of contacted Rare Breed and tried to work out a settlement instead of just canceling the sale.

As for the shipping, try getting the shipping back from a retailer after you purchase something and then decided that you don't want it and send it back for a refund, it isn't going to happen.

I don’t agree, I think the biggest issue was that rare bread posted pictures from 2023 before rare bread took that gun hunting and the buyer received the firearm in a condition that was not expected. It’s basically like cat fishing someone. By my book rare bread scammed the buyer and deserves to be treated like a scammer. No room for that type of misrepresentation on here when you’re spending 20k

This is petty. Making a post about a disagreement over a few hundred bucks, especially when it represents less than 2% of the entire amount?

i think you’re missing the point here if you think it’s over a couple hundred dollars

Completely agree! I never represented the rifle was NEW IN BOX. Please everyone go back to my ad! I did say as I do with all my DRs I sent it to JJ who after taking it apart and doing his review said the rifle was perfect. For those that do business with JJ he is all about is everything working to his high standards on the rifle.

I don't agree, I think the biggest issue was that rare bread posted pictures from 2023 before rare bread took that gun hunting and the buyer received the firearm in a condition that was not expected. It's basically like cat fishing someone. By my book rare bread scammed the buyer and deserves to be treated like a scammer. No room for that type of misrepresentation on here when you're spending 20k

 

[dogcat1]

I am not sure if this is relevant but I believe the rifle in question is one made at Paso Robles, CA when Rigby was located there. I am not sure if that affects anything, but it does not appear to be a London Rigby.

 

[Huvius]

I’ll volunteer here to push back.
Hope I’m not the only one on AH thinking along these lines…
First, the notion that it is incumbent upon a buyer to travel to insure that an item is as described is ridiculous.
In any other instance, when purchasing any other high priced good, one relies upon the description in committing to the purchase.
I buy an appliance and it comes damaged, I demand a replacement or an adjustment in the price and that is the expectation on both sides of the deal.
This is an international forum and deals are done regularly between parties that obviate the possibility of in person inspection. This is the case in the art world, the jewelry world, any place that real money is being exchanged for valuable goods.
As I said before, the onus in being a responsible seller is to accurately describe the item you are offering.
In this instance, that did not happen and now has been aired out on an an open forum for better or for worse.
There is a lesson for everyone here.

 

[275r7x57]

Could not agree more.

 

[Rare Breed]

I am not sure if this is relevant but I believe the rifle in question is one made at Paso Robles, CA when Rigby was located there. I am not sure if that affects anything, but it does not appear to be a London Rigby.

that was always made clear

 

[N.Moritz]

This is petty. Making a post about a disagreement over a few hundred bucks, especially when it represents less than 2% of the entire amount?

I don't agree, I think the biggest issue was that rare bread posted pictures from 2023 before rare bread took that gun hunting and the buyer received the firearm in a condition that was not expected. It's basically like cat fishing someone. By my book rare bread scammed the buyer and deserves to be treated like a scammer. No room for that type of misrepresentation on here when you're spending 20k

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I’ll volunteer here to push back.
Hope I’m not the only one on AH thinking along these lines…
First, the notion that it is incumbent upon a buyer to travel to insure that an item is as described is ridiculous.
In any other instance, when purchasing any other high priced good, one relies upon the description in committing to the purchase.
I buy an appliance and it comes damaged, I demand a replacement or an adjustment in the price and that is the expectation on both sides of the deal.
This is an international forum and deals are done regularly between parties that obviate the possibility of in person inspection. This is the case in the art world, the jewelry world, any place that real money is being exchanged for valuable goods.
As I said before, the onus in being a responsible seller is to accurately describe the item you are offering.
In this instance, that did not happen and now has been aired out on an an open forum for better or for worse.
There is a lesson for everyone here.

Incumbent? No, not incumbent. Good advice? I think so.

 

[275r7x57]

I don’t agree, I think the biggest issue was that rare bread posted pictures from 2023 before rare bread took that gun hunting and the buyer received the firearm in a condition that was not expected. It’s basically like cat fishing someone. By my book rare bread scammed the buyer and deserves to be treated like a scammer. No room for that type of misrepresentation on here when you’re spending 20k

i think you’re missing the point here if you think it’s over a couple hundred dollars

I don't agree, I think the biggest issue was that rare bread posted pictures from 2023 before rare bread took that gun hunting and the buyer received the firearm in a condition that was not expected. It's basically like cat fishing someone. By my book rare bread scammed the buyer and deserves to be treated like a scammer. No room for that type of misrepresentation on here when you're spending 20k

Agreed.

If this was someone else (a small name or no name individual per se) they would be ridiculed and banned.

Misrepresentation and not returning funds agreed upon is nothing to dismiss and should not be tolerated.

 

[Rare Breed]

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Despite te copies of my emails I know what I meant and clearly voiced it on my phone call with Frantz. While anyone is free to chime in I am done with this and will make no further comment. Have fun with further posting if you choose. I have helped hundreds of our members and have had 27 great transactions. I will continue to help people who ask

 

[CZDiesel]

Look everyone let’s let this go and let the buyer and seller get back ahold of each other and work it out! I think they will get it done…
Let’s not drag this through the mud anymore and give them the time to make peace right?
I think the whole thing boils down to one tiny mistake? When @Rare Breed posted that it was seen and tuned by J.J. he said it was in “perfect condition”, I’m sure he meant “perfect working condition”
I’m sure all parties will make this right so let’s not throw anymore gas on the fire and go back to all being friends again

 

[Ridge Runner]

Look everyone let’s let this go and let the buyer and seller get back ahold of each other and work it out! I think they will get it done…
Let’s not drag this through the mud anymore and give them the time to make peace right?
I think the whole thing boils down to one tiny mistake? When @Rare Breed posted that it was seen and tuned by J.J. he said it was in “perfect condition”, I’m sure he meant “perfect working condition”
I’m sure all parties will make this right so let’s not throw anymore gas on the fire and go back to all being friends again

+1. Here Here, or Hear Hear. Or any combination there of.

 

[275r7x57]

Look everyone let’s let this go and let the buyer and seller get back ahold of each other and work it out! I think they will get it done…
Let’s not drag this through the mud anymore and give them the time to make peace right?
I think the whole thing boils down to one tiny mistake? When @Rare Breed posted that it was seen and tuned by J.J. he said it was in “perfect condition”, I’m sure he meant “perfect working condition”
I’m sure all parties will make this right so let’s not throw anymore gas on the fire and go back to all being friends again

No one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. But admitting to their mistakes and making things right is what gentlemen do.

I have seen no effort yet made to make anything right. Also Mr. Breed was arrogant in saying the following.

"I am not deviating from this given I am 100% sure all forum members would agree with me"

Obviously this is not the case.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I have seen no effort yet made to make anything right.

Well it seems the purchase price of the rifle was refunded and that represents the greater part of the money that was spent. The issue now seems to boil down to a couple of hundred bucks for shipping representing a very small part of the total.

Easy for me to say since it's not my few hundred bucks, but it seems the issue has been greatly resolved.

 

[275r7x57]

Well it seems the purchase price of the rifle was refunded and that represents the greater part of the money that was spent. The issue now seems to boil down to a couple of hundred bucks for shipping representing a very small part of the total.

Easy for me to say since it's not my few hundred bucks, but it seems the issue has been greatly resolved.

There has been no effort made public to correct the outstanding amount due for shipping due to Mr. Breed’s misrepresentation of the item.

If the misrepresentation never occurred I am confident that we would not be discussing this matter.

Again if shipping had been refunded as Mr. Breed agreed upon in writing I am confident we would not be discussing this matter.

Mr. Breed created both issues, no one else. Facts are facts!