If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum?

[Randy Bo]

If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum caliber for dangerous game in all of Africa:
- Would you consider replacing your 375 with a 9.3 (If you did not currently own a 9.3x62)?
- For a one rifle safari, which included plains game and Cape buffalo, would you feel comfortable with only the 9.3x62?
- For someone who owns neither, but plans on hunting Africa (someday), asks you to help them choose between the 9.3x62 and 375?

I realize this has probably been kicked around in one form or another but, was hoping to get everyone’s thoughts.
Thanks...

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Very interesting question Randy. I defer to those who know far more than I do: Dr Kevin Robertson rated the 9.3x62 highly as a buffalo round for clients. I like the 375 Flanged Magnum because it addresses the over velocity of the 375 H&H according to Robertson, but is still a more powerful round than the 9.3.
I also have the 375H&H, but plan to use my 375FL more, it is sort of a good compromise between the 9.3 and the H&H.

 

[Randy Bo]

Very interesting question Randy. I defer to those who know far more than I do: Dr Kevin Robertson rated the 9.3x62 highly as a buffalo round for clients. I like the 375 Flanged Magnum because it addresses the over velocity of the 375 H&H according to Robertson, but is still a more powerful round than the 9.3.
I also have the 375H&H, but plan to use my 375FL more, it is sort of a good compromise between the 9.3 and the H&H.

Thank You, for your response. After reading many 9.3 vs 375 threads it seems as though the trump card for the 375 is “well it is at least the legal minimum, everywhere” which, I think, kind of simplifies the debate a little bit to much.

 

[bruce moulds]

perhaps the 9.3x64 should be included in this debate.
bruce.

 

[samu]

perhaps the 9.3x64 should be included in this debate.
bruce.

Not really. There's no question it can do at least as much damage as 375HH at both ends of the rifle. Rather the question is what would the new limit be? 9.3mm and 5000J? That's actually achievable from x62. 5400J found in some places isn't happening with factory ammo.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

If your going to compare , 9.3x74r should also be considered as it is more practical in a double rifle.

 

[Professor Mawla]

If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum caliber for dangerous game in all of Africa:
- Would you consider replacing your 375 with a 9.3 (If you did not currently own a 9.3x62)?
- For a one rifle safari, which included plains game and Cape buffalo, would you feel comfortable with only the 9.3x62?
- For someone who owns neither, but plans on hunting Africa (someday), asks you to help them choose between the 9.3x62 and 375?

I realize this has probably been kicked around in one form or another but, was hoping to get everyone’s thoughts.
Thanks...

Good evening @Randy Bo
This is actually a most fascinating question(s) . The great Wally Johnson ( of Mozambique fame ) actually used a 9.3x62 mm Mauser against dozens of African Cape buffalo , with immense success ( due to facing shortages of ammunition for his .375 Holland & Holland Magnum ) . The late Don Heath / Ganyana managed to achieve 41 one shot kills on African Cape buffalo , by employing his 9.3x62 mm Mauser . I have personally hunted Pakistani Markhor goats , Australian scrub bulls and American Kodiak bears with the 9.3x62 mm Mauser . It is quite a magnificent little calibre . Let us now assess your questions in a chronological order :
1 ) No . The .375 Holland & Holland Magnum employs 300 grain bullet , as opposed to the 286 grain bullet of the 9.3x62 mm Mauser . As trivial as the difference in bullet weight may sound to a novice , a bullet which is heavier by 14 grains is still advantageous . These days , one can even find 350 grain bullets for the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum ( case in point : Norma’s PH line of factory loaded ammunition , which employs 350 grain Woodleigh bullets ) . That said ; if I already owned a 9.3x62 mm Mauser , then I would not bother owning a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum ( except for collecting purposes ) .
2 ) I definitely would . With 286 grain Nosler Safari factory loaded monolithic solids , I would happily use the 9.3x62 mm Mauser against Africa’s tiny ten . I would employ 286 grain Nosler Partition soft nosed factory loads , against all of the African plains game ( including eland bulls ) . For Cape buffalo , I would employ hand loaded 286 grain Rhino Solid Shank bullets ( although the 286 grain Nosler Partition soft nosed factory loads would work commendably well for broadside shots on Cape buffalo ) .
3 ) I would personally tell them to try both out , and pick the one which they are most comfortable with . The 9.3x62 mm Mauser definitely has less recoil than the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum , although the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum’s recoil is by no means unpleasant .

 

[rnovi]

IIRC the 9.3x62 is and has been legal in Zim (or one of the African nations) for some time.

as to the question: sure. I have both a 9.3x62 and a 375 H&H. I have driven 286 gr Partitions at 2500 FPS chrono’d in my 9.3. The 375 drives 300 gr bullets at 2500.

I doubt any critter would know the difference.

 

[Red Leg]

I do not think there is any practical difference between a 286 gr A Frame from a 9.3 and the same bullet in 300 gr from a .375. As noted above, I agree that it is unlikely any buffalo would be able to discern that difference.

Like many others I own and use both (and 9,3x74R's). Therefore the question of preference seems more one of the particular rifle rather than the caliber itself. 9.3's are often built quite light. I have a pre-war Suhl Mauser that feels like a .243 in the hand - and is somewhat, should we say, lively against the shoulder - much more so than my go-to R8 in .375. The Rigby Highland Stalker comes in 9.3 in the same package as their .275.

I have used the .375 with 300 gr bullets so often and with such predictably excellent results on everything from Suni to Buffalo, that I would never consider trading it out for a 9.3. All I would be gaining would be a slightly lighter rifle (maybe) with zero advantages in ballistics on any game I hunt in Africa.

The 9.3 has become my favorite bear caliber where it has performed perfectly - though, so would a .375.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have both, 9.3x62 and 375H&H.
Would I take 9.3 to Africa?
No.
Reason, it is semi auto rifle (for driven hunt), and semi autos are usually not allowed in Africa, and certainly even if allowed it would not be my choice for DG hunt.

In case that 9.3 is accepted as buffalo caliber, in bolt action, or double rifle, would I take it to Africa?
Probaly yes, and in that case, it woud be my main rifle, which includes european hunitng as well.

It has to be said, that another one - 9.3x64, is almost identical ballistic twin to 375 H&H, while 9.3x62 is a bit shy in energy depatment compared to 375, but not that any game would notice the difference. But 9.3x64 could be considered as true continental 375 H&H, should 9.3 be allowed for buffalo by local regs.

 

[baxterb]

My 9,3 easily gets a 286 North Fork going 2505 out of its 25.5” barrel. My old Model 70 shot 300gr TSXs at 2470. That’s 3985 vs. 4064 fpe at the muzzle. Not sure there is a difference worth worrying about.

 

[Rare Breed]

Forgive me if I missed it but I thought almost all of Africa has the 375 as the DG minimum maki g this rifle illegal for DG even though there is agreement that should not be?

 

[WAB]

Forgive me if I missed it but I thought almost all of Africa has the 375 as the DG minimum maki g this rifle illegal for DG even though there is agreement that should not be?

Actually no. This was discussed at length in another thread. The 9.3x62 (with energy mins in some cases) is legal in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Namibia, some provinces of RSA. I’m likely missing some. The .375 is the stated minimum in Botswana, Zambia, Tanzania, again I am likely missing some. As you can see, a pretty significant percentage of buffalo hunts that are taken could be conducted with a 9.3x62.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Actually no. This was discussed at length in another thread. The 9.3x62 (with energy mins in some cases) is legal in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Namibia, some provinces of RSA. I’m likely missing some. The .375 is the stated minimum in Botswana, Zambia, Tanzania, again I am likely missing some. As you can see, a pretty significant percentage of buffalo hunts that are taken could be conducted with a 9.3x62.

@WAB
I am not so certain about Zambia . My close friend , John Coleman ( a retired African professional hunter ) actually guided a client who shot an African lion in Zambia by using a .338 Winchester Magnum . John also personally secured multiple African lions in Zambia , by employing a .338 Winchester Magnum . However , this was rather long ago .

 

[Tanks]

I have never been happy with just the "minimum" in anything. That being said I am planning to take a scoped 9.3x74R for plains game and leopard.

For buffalo though, I'd always take a caliber between .4xx - .5xx.

 

[crs]

"For buffalo though, I'd always take a caliber between .4xx - .5xx." +1

 

[flatwater bill]

The original decisions on minimum calibers were made many years ago I suspect.............even in countries that adopted the same regs later had the idea from old. Historically, there were many old military rifles floating around Africa, and they killed and wounded animals that were inexhaustible. And deserved better. This discussion has been beaten about in many threads, but nice to have a new, more up to date discussion. Thanks for posting....FWB

 

[spike.t]

@WAB
I am not so certain about Zambia . My close friend , John Coleman ( a retired African professional hunter ) actually guided a client who shot an African lion in Zambia by using a .338 Winchester Magnum . John also personally secured multiple African lions in Zambia , by employing a .338 Winchester Magnum . However , this was rather long ago .

For plains game its left to common sense as to what calibre to use...but these are stated minimum for these

• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .300 caliber for dangerous game such as Leopard and Lion.
• The minimum equipment requirement for rifle hunting in Zambia is .375 caliber for dangerous game or big game hunting such as Elephant, Buffalo and Hippo.
• Zambia does not require a minimum energy (Eo – muzzle velocity) for calibers used

 

[shark_za]

The only thing making me hesitate using a 9.3x62 as a general purpose rifle would be longer shots on PG found in open areas.
I would not think the 9.3x62 is ideal for long shots on Gemsbok or small game like Springbok at distance. The .375 with a 270gr seems to do better here.
I guess you could bring two loads along and sigh in for DG and PG changes.

 

[bruce moulds]

if you are trying to make a 9.3 compete with the 375, don't set the 9.3 at a further disadvantage by using the 286 partition in the 9.3.
this bullet has proven to be such that it nearly made me give up on the 9.3 calibre.
for game up to say red deer size that are smaller boned, and susceptable to shock, it works well.
over that and you might shoot something and it will keep going aparrently unhit, and might if you are lucky expire a while later, or disappear.
to me this is morally unacceptable on any game, and might get you killed in africa.
an answer to this might be to use bullets such as barnesx or lapua naturalis.
the problem with 286 gn copper bullets is their length encroaching on powder space, or the lapua bullet only available in lighter weights.
swift bullets open fast yet retain weight, and the 286 gn has the same s.d. as a 300 gn 375.
this weight in 9.3 can have some speed.
the 300 gn swift will also be good where closer ranges are the norm.
when the nose comes off a nosler it instantly loses a % of s.d., and in doing so often changes direction inside the animal.
what is left will penetrate some, but is of small diameter and might well be going in the wrong direction, making a good shot into a bad one.
one of the surest shots you can do is into the shoulder of an animal quartering facing you.
take my advice, and do not do this with the 286 nosler on bigger game.
should this shot be a bit off an a lion and hit the shoulder blade life could get interesting as well.
these shots show as a fist sized hole that blows out not far from the inlet hole.
not far behind the swift would be the woodleigh pp.
good bullets give you more control over what happens when the bullet hits, which is after they leave the barrel and there is nothing you can do.
i would say that the 9.3 loaded with good bullets in the hands of a good shot would be a most useful calibre compared to the 375, with the x64 being the best choice.
however most factory 9.3 ammo is meant for lesser game than most 375 ammo.
the 9.3 can be brought up a long way by handloaders, as there are good bullets available for it for bigger game, but how can game laws control that without getting too specific?
i have personally seen a guy turn up to hunt camels with 232 gn bullets in a 9.3x62.
i have personally turned up to hunt camels and donkeys with the 286 gn partition.
both turned out to be negative experiences.
in my case a 30/06 with 165/168 gn barnes would have been a better choice.
african laws have to cater for the lowest common denominator, as there is a lot of minimal experience out there, a lot of bad shots, even by good shooters, and then you get stupid.
the laws have to cater for stupid, and just when you think you have stupid dealt with, a new iteration of stupid comes to the surface.
this is where the 375 shines, and that is coming from a 9.3 lover.
bruce.