If the 9.3x62 became the new legal minimum?

Ahem, then why 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 7mm Rem Mag etc. etc. are getting popular?

Except for the 7mm RM, those others are recent happenings.
 
Love the discussion about the legal minimum caliber, especially for dangerous game.

It's like to ask a woman, what is the legal minimum to satisfy her....

Exactly. My view on this, as I have mentioned before, is the largest caliber one can shoot accurately.

If that caliber is NOT >= .4XX then I'd recommend to keep shooting farm animals in RSA instead of DG. ;)
 
Exactly. My view on this, as I have mentioned before, is the largest caliber one can shoot accurately.

If that caliber is NOT >= .4XX then I'd recommend to keep shooting farm animals in RSA instead of DG. ;)
within the last month or two, somebody here posted a link to a metadata study which contradicts that.

the number of 1-shot kills via 375 or 9.3 exceeds, by an impressive margin, the number of 1-shot cape buffalo kills with .40+. I grokked the reason immediately, as I'm sure most people did. 375 and 9.3x62 are easier to be proficient with. there is no substitute for shot placement.
 
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Exactly. My view on this, as I have mentioned before, is the largest caliber one can shoot accurately.
You realize that article, on the last paragraph, sums itself up with basically the same statements I made in my first sentence.

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So, the article, after four pages of anecdotal information, does not contradict what I said. ;)
 
I have a Dumoulin Mauser action on my bench that will become a 9.3x62 some day. I am about to send to Dennis Olson to have a Obrendorf straight bolt handle welded and Shilen barrel screwed on. Have to get a barrel from Shilen on order. Also have to get me a pice of wood for a stock. Someone asked me why I picked that cal. I said it was the only thing I could find bullets and brass for here in the US.

I have a piece of English Walnut turned I could inlet for the 9.3 but was kind of thinking I wanted to use it on a 300 H&H. I have several project I need to make stocks for. This thing called a job gets in the way of my stock makeing.

9.3 seemed like a good round for Kudu, Eland etc. But would be hard to go back to Africa without my old 375 H&H.

9.3 is a good solid round that looks to work well for everything from deer, bear, to plains game and DG too if allowed.
 
I have a Dumoulin Mauser action on my bench that will become a 9.3x62 some day. I am about to send to Dennis Olson to have a Obrendorf straight bolt handle welded and Shilen barrel screwed on. Have to get a barrel from Shilen on order. Also have to get me a pice of wood for a stock. Someone asked me why I picked that cal. I said it was the only thing I could find bullets and brass for here in the US.

I have a piece of English Walnut turned I could inlet for the 9.3 but was kind of thinking I wanted to use it on a 300 H&H. I have several project I need to make stocks for. This thing called a job gets in the way of my stock makeing.

9.3 seemed like a good round for Kudu, Eland etc. But would be hard to go back to Africa without my old 375 H&H.

9.3 is a good solid round that looks to work well for everything from deer, bear, to plains game and DG too if allowed.
I like the handle.

We're not too far apart, I'm in Richmond.
 
I have been mentioned twice in this thread so I'll add my five cents worth. There is, in my opinion a logical explanation why the 9,3 x 62 mm, and well-constructed 286 or 300 grain bullets is such an effective, dangerous game combination.
It is simply this:- this ballistic combination is wonderfully 'shootable', which goes a long way towards ensuring initial shot placement is good. Knowing your rifle/ballistic combination is 'marginal' for buffalo, also seems to have a physiological effect - which in a way seems to improve ones shooting performance.
I have yet to meet an enthusiastic dangerous game hunter who could not shoot my 9,3 well, and this includes quite a few from the fairer sex. I have however encountered quite a few 'with hairy chests' who were 'scared' of a .375's recoil.
There are three components to 'recoil' - the force that comes back into your shoulder measured in foot pounds (Free Recoil Energy), the speed or velocity with which this force is delivered (Free Recoil Velocity measured in fps) and the 'duration' of the recoil event.
Recoil starts the moment the bullet starts to move out the neck of the cartridge case and into the freebore and it ends when the bullet exits the muzzle.
A 10 pound 9,3 x 62 mm firing a 286 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2350 fps (or a 300 grainer at 2300) creates a FRE value of 28 ft pounds at a FRV of 13.5 fps.
A similar weight .375 H&H firing a 300 grain bullet at 2550 fps of muzzle velocity creates 41 ft pounds of FRE at a velocity of 16 fps.
I do not have a figure for the duration of the recoil event but given similar barrel lengths the time it takes for a 286 grain .366 bullet to be accelerated to 2350 fps is longer than it takes a 300 grainer to reach 2550 fps.
Put simply, a similar weight .375 H&H recoils 50% more than a 9,3 x 62 mm, and this 'experience' is delivered over a shorter/sharper time period, all of which translates into a very different, more unpleasant shooting experience.
This makes the 9,3 a lot easier, more pleasant, more manageable call it whatever, to shoot. Pretty simple really, all of which contributes significantly towards 'confidence' which in turn equates to better shooting and correct first shot placement.
I have more than three decades of 9,3 experience and I long ago realized that 300 grain .366's (at 2300 fps) seemed to me to be more effective than 286 grainers going a bit faster. I attributed this to a better sectional density, .320 as opposed to .305, and a slightly improved momentum value - 99 pound fps to 96.
More importantly, the 300 grain expanding bullets I used for decades, flat nosed Hi-Performers made especially for me by the late Ken Stewart, had nice, 2 mm thick jackets and bonded cores, and they expanded reliably to a little over double caliber in size which created nice and big wound channels which resulted in turn to quick deaths when these bullets were placed into the heart/lung area.
Many buffalo are shot from the frontal angles where the inch-thick frontal chest skin of a buffalo is a formidable obstacle for any bullet. I quickly became convinced that from these angles, an expanding 300 grain .366 bullet at 2300 was more effective than a similar 300 grain .375 bullet at 2500 fps. Higher SD bullets at a lower mv overcame the 'trampoline effect' of the frontal chest skin better/easier than lower SD bullets going faster. In such instances, momentum, in my opinion, is a lot more important than energy.
Along with my Brno ZG47 9,3 x 62 mm, I also owned for a time a Browning A-Bolt Medallion .375 H&H. This rifle weighed only 8 pounds and my clients used to complain bitterly about its recoil when full house factory loads with 300 grainers were used. To get around this I used to reduce the mv with 300 grainers to 2350 fps. Not only did this reduce the recoil, but it also improved the terminal bullet performance. When 350 grain .375 bullets became available (and 380 grain Rhino's) this bullet weight elevated the .375 into another performance class altogether - but this is not the topic of this thread.
The 'nine-three's' work because they are the easiest of the DG suitable combinations to shoot, and when bullet placement is where it should be, they 'work' surprisingly well.
There is an old saying - 'shot Placement is the best caliber/cartridge combination' and the 9,3's are the easiest way to accomplish this - pretty simple really!
 
Good stuff Kevin. You’d like my 9.3. Has a Mauser model A profile barrel. Solid and stable.

just listened to the podcasts you did on bullets/rifles. Enjoyed it.

hope you can get your 505 to texas...;-)
 
Thanks for weighing in Kevin. And thanks again for your advice working up 9.3 loads for Sue’s buffalo hunt. As you stated, she was able to shoot it accurately and one shot through the shoulder was all it took. A truly wonderful rifle and cartridge.
 
Curious if any of you Aussies have experience with the Woodleigh 320 RN and water buffalo or scrub bulls. Sure looks to me like it would be a good choice at about 2250 fps.
 
One final comment.
Given similar weight rifles, a .375 H&H firing a 300 grain bullet at 2550 fps recoils 50 % than a 9,3 x 62 firing a 286 grainer at 2350 fps - for only about a 20% increase in energy, momentum and KO!
Makes one think don't it!
To me, its no wonder the 'Nine Three's' have retained such a faithful following over the decades - they just work, and maybe they are now getting the recognition they really deserve.
 
One final comment.
Given similar weight rifles, a .375 H&H firing a 300 grain bullet at 2550 fps recoils 50 % than a 9,3 x 62 firing a 286 grainer at 2350 fps - for only about a 20% increase in energy, momentum and KO!
Makes one think don't it!
To me, its no wonder the 'Nine Three's' have retained such a faithful following over the decades - they just work, and maybe they are now getting the recognition they really deserve.
So Kevin, what is your opinion of the 375 Flanged Magnum, 300gr at 2400fps? Or would it be even better to take it down to about 2350fps?
 
For me, it comes down to a feeling. The 9,3x62 is a great caliber, especially for driven hunts imo, and fits perfectly into the European hunting style and environment. The 375, respectively, has that “African feel” over it. A little bigger, a little meaner. Obviously not a very scientific response to the thread’s question, but who hunts for scientific reasons :cool:
 
For me, it comes down to a feeling. The 9,3x62 is a great caliber, especially for driven hunts imo, and fits perfectly into the European hunting style and environment. The 375, respectively, has that “African feel” over it. A little bigger, a little meaner. Obviously not a very scientific response to the thread’s question, but who hunts for scientific reasons :cool:
Bonnevier,
I think it is neat that you mention “feelings”, because that was one of the things that inspired me to create this post. In the Norma Reloading Manual Vol. 2, they state that the 9.3x62 was developed by the German gunmaker Otto Bock in 1905 for the German Colonists living in Africa. Now, I can envision a poor German farmer trying to protect his crops with the most affordable option available ( a standard length Mauser action chambered for 9.3x62). It seems to me that Mr. Bock’s task was to create a solution that the average German/African Colonists could afford and, for me, that gives the 9.3x62 more of an “ African Feel”.
 
Bonnevier,
I think it is neat that you mention “feelings”, because that was one of the things that inspired me to create this post. In the Norma Reloading Manual Vol. 2, they state that the 9.3x62 was developed by the German gunmaker Otto Bock in 1905 for the German Colonists living in Africa. Now, I can envision a poor German farmer trying to protect his crops with the most affordable option available ( a standard length Mauser action chambered for 9.3x62). It seems to me that Mr. Bock’s task was to create a solution that the average German/African Colonists could afford and, for me, that gives the 9.3x62 more of an “ African Feel”.
Well said and of course you are correct. I suppose that the 9,3’s continued history and later spread across Europe, inc my native Scandinavia, made it quite ordinary and “bland”. For us, the 375 is the exotic choice and therefore have that special inherent “feel” to it.
 
Good stuff Kevin. You’d like my 9.3. Has a Mauser model A profile barrel. Solid and stable.

just listened to the podcasts you did on bullets/rifles. Enjoyed it.

hope you can get your 505 to texas...;-)
Yes it looks like I'm getting there - will be dropping it off with the exported on Monday.
So Kevin, what is your opinion of the 375 Flanged Magnum, 300gr at 2400fps? Or would it be even better to take it down to about 2350fps?
I think the .375 Flanged is a wonderful cartridge. Not much difference between 2350 and 2400. My experience from living in Karoi for 22 yrs was that loads developed there (4000 feet) seemed to be a bit 'hotter' when used in my old stamping ground, the low-lying Zambezi valley, especially when it was hot. Remember well, at Rifa Education Camp once when we were on a pre-competency training course, chronograping a .416 Rem Mag - factory ammo - it was pushing 400 grainers at 2500!!!! - this was in October, it was 40 C and the ammo had been on the dashboard of a 'Cruiser parked in the sun!
 
I always find these discussions interesting. It gives us old gun cranks something to discuss with a nice fire and whiskey in our hands. The history and basic interior ballistics have been solidly covered in this and other threads. The advice of shoot the largest caliber that you can handle and shoot accurately is probably the best advice ever given. In my time in the military and helping at ranges to teach people to shoot, I have seen all the good and bad habits that people have and or develop. (and have had to deal with in my own shooting) It is interesting in that in my opinion that women are easier to train than men as they listen and apply what you tell them without preconceived notions. Second most everyone can be taught to shoot up to the 9.3/375 class of rifles, with proper training and a "Properly fitting rifle" . Another observation is that for the lack of a better word the more modern man has become soft and if things are uncomfortable they avoid it (IE any rifle that recoils harder than that viscous 30/06) I have bought many 375 and larger from guys that only had one or two rounds down the tube because they were scard of the recoil and were to closed minded to learn how to deal with recoil.

SHOT PLACEMENT is paramount over

I have shot alot of game with the 9.3's (62 and 74R) I would happly hunt buffalo with my load in my bolt or double guns. Have 300 gr aframes for softs and swift and northfork solids in the double and swift 300 and woodleigh 320's for the 62. in my 375 the aframes and CEB solids would be used. that being said my buffalo was shot with a 450NE and my Hippo with 450/400. I will most likely always use a 40+ on my DG (Except leopard, using my 9.3x62 with 250 Accubonds at 2730fps this year). My upper limitation on recoil is a 577NE and 8 Bore muzzle loader. My current large bolt gun is a 500 Jeffery that I will be using to back a buddy up on Ele this year. So again shot as large a caliber that you can handle and shoot accuratly

My wife is shooting her first buffalo this year (rescheduled from Oct 2020 due to covid) I getting her prepared for the hunt, had her shoot 9.3x62 , 375 H&H, and had a 400 whelen that she didn't shoot as after two range sessions she simply said this is the rifle I will use and it was the 375. Have it set up with a red dot and a perfect fit on the rifle.

So based on watching her shoot and decide which rifle to hunt buffalo with I would also tell you to try both and see which one suits you best and go hunt.
 

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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
CM Russel museum and lewis and Clark interpretative center
Horseback riding in Summer star ranch
Charlo bison range and Garnet ghost town
Flathead lake, road to the sun and hiking in Glacier NP
and back to SLC (via Ogden and Logan)
Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
Philippe (France)

Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
a hot springs (do you have good spots ?)
Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
 
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