Is this normal behavior by a Safari outfitter?

[sureshot375]

This is one reason why I hate packages. I want a daily rate and a trophy fee list.

If I have read through the lines correctly, the outfitter you chose has a high-volume business model where they run as many inexperienced hunters through their operation as possible. They get people signed up through any number of gimmicks including "donated" hunts and "free" hunts. Once the client is there they upsell. That is their entire business model.

The high-volume nature of their business means they have to hunt a variety of properties and use a ton of different PH's. This means your experience may vary. Big spenders are likely to get better treatment. There are a number of threads on here about people with real credible complaints about this outfitter.

Also, give them a youtube search. What I see are multiple videos showing people riding around in trucks shooting semi domesticated animals from the back. That is not my idea of a dream safari.

There are so many good outfitters in RSA, I just can't understand picking this one.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I've heard of missed shot fees. You miss a shot $40.00. Not a trophy fee. Wound it, its yours.
Miss it, no trophy fee.
It is meant to slow some guys down and make them aim and to keep the noise levels down.

$40/missed shot? I've hunted waterfowl with guys who would have to remortgage their homes to pay for a week's guided hunt in Saskatchewan. . No one has charged me for anything but daily rate and trophy fees in Africa. Would have set me back eighty bucks on my last safari. I think the embarrassment of missing two shots was much more painful ... and I am a thrifty guy.

 

[dchum]

I’m so tired of Kuche safaris - the stupid gun broker postings, every DU auction, every Wild turkey foundation Auction. Sci events ect ect - They are EVERYWHERE


I said it

 

[Hunt anything]

Yes.
A person books a hunt for 10 animals in 7 days. Client didn't understand 7 days total, 5 hunting days. Client kills X amount of the 10 animals. The money paid for those animals are part of the contract. The PH provided the client with one or more opportunities to kill the 10 contracted animals; either the client missed and/or refused to shoot the contracted animal(s). Thereby no refund on trophy fees.



Finding the "exact animal is the PH's responsibility. I think "exact animal" is out of context. Or a bad outfitter/PH and/or PH.

Regardless of a miss or wounded animal a good PH and tracker will look for evidence and confirm the shot was a miss and continue to hunt that species or confirm the animal has been wounded and the client is then given the choice to hunt that specific animal for a "quick" and humane kill or to hunt another animal of the same species at 2 x the trophy fee: 1 fee for the wounded animal plus 1 fee for the animal recovered.

This was an al-a-cart hunt, he said that’s a great animal do you want it. He did and missed. The PH was unaware of the policy on this property and was surprised as well.

 

[shark_za]

Lets also be fair, anyone charging $420 per day is already ripping the ring out of it.
IMHO

 

[mark-hunter]

I've heard of missed shot fees.

This becomes lately more and more common practice in Croatia, with some outfitters.
Sometimes up to 300 usd for missed shot, depends on which game. (often for missed red deer, less for other game)
It is also, payable as successful hunt, in case of X number of fired and missed shots during wild boar drive and group hunting

Generally, I am not against it.
The point is that there is generally low gun culture in the country, and many hunters are poor shots.
With that policy I think that outfitters try to compensate their efforts, and motivate hunters to prepare for hunt.

For boar drive, if for example 10 or 15 shots are fired and no game is shot some payment is expected, (especially in non fenced areas), outfitter does not want to suffer too much of loss, just because group of guest hunters are poor shots. In the same time he has to pay the beaters, and dog handlers, and after a drive - area is empty of boars (being shot or not).

Those payments are usually defined in hunting contract and the rule is known. No surprises

 

[GuttormG]

A price was agreed, it the owner do not honor the agreement he probably isnt someone you want to deal with.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Just to clarify a few additional facts based on questions raised in the responses, when I asked about reserving the additional day, I was quoted $180 for hunters and $120 for observers (see attached screenshot of conversation). We confirmed four hunters for 1 additional day each at $180 and based on this we did not change our airline tickets during the short window that such a change would be possible. I offered to take care of the additional cost right then (May 28th) and was told that it would be added to the account and I could pay it at the end of the trip. There was never any indication that this amount would be subject to change.

While the daily rate amount is not a significant sum compared to trophy fees, etc., it raises my suspicion on what other things can fluctuate without my knowledge or prior consent.

The whole issue came up after we had inquired about adding two buffalo, zebra, and giraffe to the "package" animals. Those potential add on animals would have raised $25K+ in revenue for the outfitter. However, now that we are having an issue over ~ $800 in total daily fees, we are hesitant to add on additional animals not knowing if the stated trophy fees will be honored.

 

[375er]

The reason I will not use nor recommend outfitters that charge by the inch.

Ditto! Not interested. Period.

 

[dchum]

Just to clarify a few additional facts based on questions raised in the responses, when I asked about reserving the additional day, I was quoted $180 for hunters and $120 for observers (see attached screenshot of conversation). We confirmed four hunters for 1 additional day each at $180 and based on this we did not change our airline tickets during the short window that such a change would be possible. I offered to take care of the additional cost right then (May 28th) and was told that it would be added to the account and I could pay it at the end of the trip. There was never any indication that this amount would be subject to change.

While the daily rate amount is not a significant sum compared to trophy fees, etc., it raises my suspicion on what other things can fluctuate without my knowledge or prior consent.

The whole issue came up after we had inquired about adding two buffalo, zebra, and giraffe to the "package" animals. Those potential add on animals would have raised $25K+ in revenue for the outfitter. However, now that we are having an issue over ~ $800 in total daily fees, we are hesitant to add on additional animals not knowing if the stated trophy fees will be honored.

Wow - clear as day. Crazy

I would try your best to enjoy your plains game hunt with your crew. Yall will get some fine trophies and make the best of it. Bring home some nice Kudu!

Then start planning yalls next trip for buff and girafe with one of the many sponsors on this sight. Start a thread asking for options and some awesome outfits will reach out!

We are lucky to have issues such as these- In the grand scheme of things. First world problems ya know?

 

[Green Chile]

You can work it out and go...hopefully it doesn't have other issues come up. I think what we are trying to say is there are better experiences out there. Whatever happens, don't let it sour you on Africa!

I would love for everyone to have fantastic experiences in Africa. I don't think the "puppy mill" operators are necessarily the best way to get there. That's just my opinion of watching results for many years. We have great operators here on the forum that would love to show you a great hunt in Africa. They advertise here...they answer questions here...they contribute here...with a little research, you can have a great hunt. I offer my time on the phone and email often to people to help them have a great hunt.

 

[franzfmdavis]

Thank you all for your responses and input!

I have not really be able to resolve this with the administrator so I have reached out directly to the owner. I will keep you all posted!!

 

[Green Chile]

Oh and I would not add a lot of animals to this package hunt. Do it and be done...then book a hunt for the animals you want somewhere else with an operator who wants a RELATIONSHIP not a one night stand. Sorry to be crude...that's about as direct as it gets.

 

[Scott CWO]

In April of 2024, I book a trip for April 2025 for myself and 3 other hunters. After we booked our flights, we realized that we would be in country for one additional day that we could use to hunt. I communicated this to the outfitter and they said they could accommodate the extra hunting day at a certain per day per hunter ($180). There was no indication in our correspondence that this daily rate was subject to change without notice.

I recently inquired about a different issue and the outfitter referenced our trip without the extra day. When I reminded them that we had confirmed an extra day, I was told in response that they could accommodate that but the daily had had been increased to over 120% of the previously confirmed price ($420).

Though I provided them with copies of the email correspondence through which we had confirmed and reserved the extra day, they maintained that "all prices are subject to change without prior notice." They referred me to a welcome letter they had sent which did state this at a couple places in the letter.

To me, this seems unfair and unreasonable, but perhaps it is a common expectation? I would appreciate any thoughts.

I did speak with @Ruraldoc about this since he has hunted with the same outfitter, and he also thought it was unreasonable and recommended I speak with the owner (rather than the administrator, with whom I have been communicating). I am planning to do so per his recommendation, but welcome additional input before I do so.

As I'm sure you can all imagine, if "all prices are subject to change without prior notice," I could choose to hunt a certain animal listed at a certain price and then after killing the animal be informed that the price had changed to more than double? That is not palatable to my sense of fairness.

Seems it was a package priced hunt where the “daily rate” was reduced to $180 and a certain number of animals were part of the package. Nobody can make a living on $180 per day. The outfitter will be going backwards if you stay an extra day for $180 and don’t shoot anything and pay a trophy fee. His cost of PH, trackers, fuel, food, cooks, ranches, etc… are way more than $180 per day! That’s why the extra day is more expensive. Look at it from a business point of view instead of as a hunter trying to get everything as cheap as possible. Your requested extra day was not part of the package price. Who’s trying to cheat who here?

As someone in the industry, I’m going against the grain of most replies to this thread. I know the costs involved. I’ve never raised prices after a hunt is contracted but adding an extra day comes at a cost and the hunter will have to at least cover costs or I’m not adding an extra day. $180 is a joke.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I noticed you “inquired” aboiut buffalo. Buffalo are dangerous game and usually occurs a higher daily fee.

Lon

 

[franzfmdavis]

Seems it was a package priced hunt where the “daily rate” was reduced to $180 and a certain number of animals were part of the package. Nobody can make a living on $180 per day. The outfitter will be going backwards if you stay an extra day for $180 and don’t shoot anything and pay a trophy fee. His cost of PH, trackers, fuel, food, cooks, ranches, etc… are way more than $180 per day! That’s why the extra day is more expensive. Look at it from a business point of view instead of as a hunter trying to get everything as cheap as possible. Your requested extra day was not part of the package price. Who’s trying to cheat who here?

As someone in the industry, I’m going against the grain of most replies to this thread. I know the costs involved. I’ve never raised prices after a hunt is contracted but adding an extra day comes at a cost and the hunter will have to at least cover costs or I’m not adding an extra day. $180 is a joke.

I understand if the rate is not consistent with the cost-of-living or the cost of business, but I was not the one that proposed that rate. I asked what the daily rate was and they told me $180 for hunters. If they wanted it to be $420 then that’s what they should have communicated. my issue is not with the rate, but rather with the fact that they communicated one as the basis for an agreement, and then are claiming they can unilaterally change it at any time.

This certainly would not be possible under contract law in any state here.

 

[franzfmdavis]

I noticed you “inquired” aboiut buffalo. Buffalo are dangerous game and usually occurs a higher daily fee.

Lon

I had inquired whether it would be possible to hunt dangerous game during our trip as they had previously given us a list of animals with trophy fees. They said that it would not be possible given the number of days we are there which I understand. I subsequently asked about adding additional plains game.

This will be my first time hunting in Africa so I am not as familiar with the protocols as many of you are. I joined this forum after booking this hunt so I’ve learned a lot since then but still have much to learn.

 

[Green Chile]

Franz you are in the right place to ask questions. We want everyone to have a good hunt and want to return again. Let us know how it goes after you talk to the owner.

 

[Scott CWO]

I understand if the rate is not consistent with the cost-of-living or the cost of business, but I was not the one that proposed that rate. I asked what the daily rate was and they told me $180 for hunters. If they wanted it to be $420 then that’s what they should have communicated. my issue is not with the rate, but rather with the fact that they communicated one as the basis for an agreement, and then are claiming they can unilaterally change it at any time.

This certainly would not be possible under contract law in any state here.

It’s pretty simple to see that someone, not likely the owner, prematurely responded with $180 because it matched the package you already bought and then had to correct the issue later. People make mistakes. Your fears of everything else going up are unfounded. They have not changed anything in the package, correct? Only the extra day, correct?

Pay the $420 happily for lodging, meals, employees, PH, trackers, etc… and go happily on your way. Or, go do something else on your last day. As I said earlier, anyone with business sense knows $180 is a joke for all the services the outfitter is providing on that day.

 

[franzfmdavis]

It’s pretty simple to see that someone, not likely the owner, prematurely responded with $180 because it matched the package you already bought and then had to correct the issue later. People make mistakes. Your fears of everything else going up are unfounded. They have not changed anything in the package, correct? Only the extra day, correct?

Pay the $420 happily for lodging, meals, employees, PH, trackers, etc… and go happily on your way. Or, go do something else on your last day. As I said earlier, anyone with business sense knows $180 is a joke for all the services the outfitter is providing on that day.

Well, the trophy fees are still up in the air. They told me yesterday that the list they provided for additional animals when I booked. The hunt is no longer current. They provided me with a list for 2024, but also stated that this was not going to be current for our hunt in 2025. I asked when the list would be available for 2025 and the response was that it could change any time depending on the circumstances and agreements they have with the various farms. I interpret this to mean that there is no set trophy fee, which makes it impossible for me to decide what to hunt because I have no idea what it would cost. I’m not going to plan to hunt an animal to shoot it and be told afterward that it cost five times what I thought it would cost.

Hopefully, all of this can be sorted out with the owner and I’m going to simply ask for a firm contract to resolve all this, but at this point, it’s all still up in the air