Is this optic a bad idea for my SHTF rifle??

[SRvet]

So I recently acquired this lightly used BRNO 602 in 458 Win Mag that is to be my S**t hits the fan rifle]. I really find the factory iron sights really hard to pick up quickly,as the bead is quite tiny, and my eyes are not as good as they used to be. Anyway I was trawling eBay last week and came across this unused Aimpoint H30L (2MOA dot) at a good price so snapped it up. It fits nicely in the Warne QD rings and seems to me like a reasonable idea to direct rapid accurate fire inside 50metres or so. Has anyone trodden this path before me and were you happy with the results? How did the sight stand up to the recoil (I am considering rechambering to 458 Lott) and being dragged through the bush?

 

[roverandbrew]

I have not used that specific Aimpoint but have used other Aimpoint models off and on the past 20 years or so. The only Aimpoint issues I ever saw were the initial reflex sights had issues with bad connections in the battery compartment. I believe that was all sorted. In regards to using a large caliber bolt gun for SHTF I think that is pretty unrealistic. I would look at a much smaller readily available round. A 458 Lott will have issues with ammo availability and very unpractical for any task other than dangerous game. Even as a reloader I would want to conserve my supplies if things really went south. Smaller caliber is less powder.

 

[SRvet]

Different definition for SHTF I think, I should more correctly have called it a stopping rifle!

 

[spike.t]

The amount of times you will most likely need a "stopping" rifle is minuscule..if ever....better get a 1-6 compact scope with lit reticule and put your first shot in the correct place....lot more useful to you as a client

 

[Begger]

Got to admit, it’s not often you see 458 Win Mag and the desire to “direct rapid accurate fire” in the same context. Unless your SHTF scenario deals with herds of maurading elephants, I think there might be better choices. But to each his own. If it works for you, and can work for you under the circumstances you might find yourself in, go for it.

 

[USMA84DAB]

What about loading it with solids and using it as a poor man's anti-material rifle?

Not everyone can get a .50 Cal Barrett.

Seems to me that the solid would easily perforate the hood/grill, the firewall, the dashboard, and then the chest cavity of the driver of a vehicle coming at you - maybe the chest cavity of the guy in the back seat as well.

I was very surprised a couple of months ago when i let loose 2 odd rounds of .375 Ruger Sierra 270 grain soft point and they punched through the AR500 armor steel target plate. Granted - certainly NOT a new plate, and it was only at 25 yards - however, I figured that with the conventional construction lead and copper cup bullet, it would just flatten/disintegrate against the target plate. SURPRISE! Two holes in the plate!

What would the .45 caliber solid do to a transfer case on a vehicle? Would it crack the engine block?

Just wondering....

 

[SRvet]

Different definition for SHTF I think, I should more correctly have called it a stopping rifle! I would assume that if you were faced with an inbound irate bovine that the first thing you may want to do is to rapidly direct accurate fire , or am I mistaken? I am not talking about high volume fire

 

[fourfive8]

Short answer- yes it will work OK. But as @spike.t pointed out probably better off with conventional low power optical sight. My experience with Aimpoint is they are very good quality, robust and maybe best of the "dot" sights but probably not as useful as a quality low power basic optical scope with bold reticle, good eye relief, good field of view and good exit pupil.

 

[USMA84DAB]

SHTF = TEOTWAKI to me - sorry for the misunderstanding

Art Alphin advised me to get a Vari-XIII 1.5-5x20 with heavy duplex reticle in 1997 - now one can add the firedot reticle to that with the VX-5HD 1-5x24. Boddington writes in favor of LPVO also. Why limit yourself to a non-magnified dot? That is for clearing rooms in Fallujah.

 

[Red Leg]

What about loading it with solids and using it as a poor man's anti-material rifle?

Not everyone can get a .50 Cal Barrett.

Seems to me that the solid would easily perforate the hood/grill, the firewall, the dashboard, and then the chest cavity of the driver of a vehicle coming at you - maybe the chest cavity of the guy in the back seat as well.

I was very surprised a couple of months ago when i let loose 2 odd rounds of .375 Ruger Sierra 270 grain soft point and they punched through the AR500 armor steel target plate. Granted - certainly NOT a new plate, and it was only at 25 yards - however, I figured that with the conventional construction lead and copper cup bullet, it would just flatten/disintegrate against the target plate. SURPRISE! Two holes in the plate!

What would the .45 caliber solid do to a transfer case on a vehicle? Would it crack the engine block?

Just wondering....

I am reminded of Ernest Hemingway patrolling the Gulf around Cuba in his fishing boat "Pilar" trying to find a surfaced German U Boat to engage with solids from his .577 Westley Richards. The literary world is eternally grateful he didn't locate one.

What sort of materiel targets to you anticipate engaging in this post-apocalyptic free fire zone that a 30-round magazine of 7.62 military ball wouldn't manage?

 

[Shootist43]

The BRNO 602 in 458 Win Mag is a decent rifle, your choice of optics for short ranges is also good. However you may have to reconsider the circumstances under which this firearm is to be used.

 

[SRvet]

Thanks for the replies, with hindsight some of my terminology is at fault with the thread derailing as the use of this rifle has nothing to do with civil unrest, invasion of the British Isles or zombies. Perhaps some context will help explain ....
My son and I have a Safari planned to hunt buffalo this coming year. My primary rifle will be a scoped 375 H&H that I am comfortable is up to the task, and will give us options at range as well as covering plains game. Whilst talking with my son about the hunt he expressed that he would feel more comfortable being on a DG hunt if he were able to carry an appropriate calibre rifle (ie not a 308 or 7mm PG rifle) in case things did go wrong (yes we are both fully aware that the PH is going to be there and that this is not likely to occur). As I had just bought the 458 (for fun on the range ) it seemed like a reasonable solution to take the 458 to compliment the 375, but to scope it for rapid short range shots where a big hammer is needed. The question really was more connected with the durability of the optic and the application of this optic to a charge situation rather than how good the 458 Win Mag is as a stand alone safari rifle. Apologies for my lack of detail in the opening post!

 

[Ridgewalker]

SRvet, sorry I have no experience with Aimpoint, but a bit with other red dots. Personally I agree with others that a 1-4x, 1-5x, or 1-6x would serve your son better. Cape buffalo are often taken from 20-100 or so yards. In dark cover, a lit reticle is excellent. If at 100 yards some magnification helps to find the kill triangle better.
But if you decide on the Aimpoint, just test it well before your trip. A 2 MOA dot is not as quick to pick up as crosshairs with a lighted dot IMO.
Best of luck! Sounds like a great trip for you and your son!

 

[Shootist43]

SRvet, now you are making sense. I use a Red Dot regularly in competition so a little practice with it will benefit the shooter immensely. Several years ago an AH member (and a professional shooter if I recall correctly) touted the use of Aimpoint(s) on a rifle. Contact Aimpoint and verify if the model you have is recommended for the use you are contemplating. Then run with their decision.

 

[colorado]

I think we're all different. I was brought up hunting with a scope, so It comes up naturally to me quickly and on target. My favorite NA hunt is "jump shooting" elk in the dark timber (kind of like walking up on grouse without a dog but they're a lot bigger). That being said I have Talley steel QR rings on my my 500 Jeffery with a Leupold 1.5-5x scope on it. That's primarily so I can use iron sights if the scope get damaged, or if I have to follow something dangerous in the thick stuff. I practice with irons (at 50 yards) about once every two months.

 

[DWB]

Aimpoint will not disappoint!!!!

Got Micro H1s on both my 404 and 450 Rigby. They work!!!!

 

[WAB]

Personally I would not use the aimpoint. I would go with a good 1-4x scope on that rifle (you really don’t need 6 or 8x on the high end with a .458, although mine has one for some odd reason). I have a number of low power scopes. One that I find particularly impressive is the Steiner P4xi 1-4x24. At 1x illuminated I believe that it is every bit as fast as an aimpoint and it gives you the 4x if you need it. Eye relief is very good at 3.5-4.

I’ve used this scope a lot and feel that it is a better scope than my Leupold VX6 1-6x24 scopes if 4x is sufficient to your needs. I would say that it compares very favorably to my Swaro Z6 ee 1-6x24. It would not measure up to the Swaro Z8 1-8x24, that scope is in a league of its own!!!

 

[Boomstick!]

Aimpoint all the way! A local GS/shooting range has had one on their 50BMG single shot for years. I own an aim point PRO on an AR15 platform that gets used and abused as a pig/ranch gun. That aim point has been on for 4+years straight. Can’t beat them.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Different definition for SHTF I think, I should more correctly have called it a stopping rifle!

I was excited about this for a minute. You had me going. Then you said stopping rifle and I knew we were all doomed to suffer once more the "You're a client and don't NEEEEEED one" replies.

Got to admit, it’s not often you see 458 Win Mag and the desire to “direct rapid accurate fire” in the same context. Unless your SHTF scenario deals with herds of maurading elephants, I think there might be better choices. But to each his own. If it works for you, and can work for you under the circumstances you might find yourself in, go for it.

It won't work so well. They tend to get really hot after about eight or ten rounds. I burned myself playing with my single shot Lott after 8 rounds rapid fire.

What about loading it with solids and using it as a poor man's anti-material rifle?

Not everyone can get a .50 Cal Barrett.

Seems to me that the solid would easily perforate the hood/grill, the firewall, the dashboard, and then the chest cavity of the driver of a vehicle coming at you - maybe the chest cavity of the guy in the back seat as well.

I was very surprised a couple of months ago when i let loose 2 odd rounds of .375 Ruger Sierra 270 grain soft point and they punched through the AR500 armor steel target plate. Granted - certainly NOT a new plate, and it was only at 25 yards - however, I figured that with the conventional construction lead and copper cup bullet, it would just flatten/disintegrate against the target plate. SURPRISE! Two holes in the plate!

What would the .45 caliber solid do to a transfer case on a vehicle? Would it crack the engine block?

Just wondering....

This made me giggle. Don't know how thick your ar500 was but I'm going to guess it was ⅜". I absolutely rock the snot out of ½" plate at fifty yards. The Sierras are very mild mannered on the steel though. I think you'd be amazed at the ppu projectile on steel. It's abrasive.

The .45 solid would do some damage. The energy transfer would be enough to crack and deform for sure if penetration didn't occur.

Anyhow I'm watching intently on the optics reviews...

 

[calling4life]

If you can find somewhere that has several 1 to whatever power scopes, go look at them, line them up and compare.

True 1 power on the bottom isn't a guarantee just because it says 1 - whatever, but it is crazy nice. Huge bright sight picture, you can very very easily use it with both eyes wide open and it is lightning quick. With a lit center dot or the like it is cheating. Took looking through several before I found true one power.

However, you've got the aimpoint, so run it, beat it up, and make sure she holds. I don't have any reason to doubt it, but haven't used them personally, just also haven't read anything throughout the years that would worry me about them either.

I don't know where you're located, but if you've got something like coyotes around, get out and get after them. It'll be great practice for the thing, they don't like to stand perfectly still for you, so you can practice moving shots, practice getting the gun up quick, quick sight acquisition and so on.

Beat it up doing that, it'll show you how it works, give you a chance to test durability, and perhaps best of all, get you used to the gun.