Kenya: 400,000 Cattle Invade Game Park

[BRICKBURN]

Brickburn, the joys of having tetsi flies in Moz....

Perhaps they can be exported!

 

[siml]

I remember on one of my first safaris, being told, tetsi bites are a small price to pay...

 

[Wheels]

I remember on one of my first safaris, being told, tetsi bites are a small price to pay...

small price = BIG BITE.

 

[flatwater bill]

Hank.................."I had to do it to feed my family"..............that is exactly the justification U.S. hillbillies use when caught poaching a deer. But with about 20 Americans for every live deer, that justification will eventually lead to a problem. Same in Africa. Maybe they needed to overgraze their land to dust just to feed their kids, maybe not. Maybe there was a better way that ignorance prevented. When they have grazed off and ruined Amboseli, what will they do next? Whatever it will be is OK, I mean, it's just to feed the kids afterall.............FWB

 

[Hank2211]

Hank.................."I had to do it to feed my family"..............that is exactly the justification U.S. hillbillies use when caught poaching a deer. But with about 20 Americans for every live deer, that justification will eventually lead to a problem. Same in Africa. Maybe they needed to overgraze their land to dust just to feed their kids, maybe not. Maybe there was a better way that ignorance prevented. When they have grazed off and ruined Amboseli, what will they do next? Whatever it will be is OK, I mean, it's just to feed the kids afterall.............FWB

Agree with everything you said Flatwater. If you look at my post, I didn't say I agreed with poaching to feed mu family or thought it was a good idea. I did say we shouldn't be surprised by it, and that I'd do the same thing myself if my family were hungry. What would you do if your family was starving and you had no education and there were no jobs to be had anyway?

I then proposed a solution. Give wildlife value by letting people own it or benefit financially from it.

But there are other solutions. In Canada, we have allowed (actually, the courts have forced us) native people to hunt all year round, without much in the way of controls.

I prefer the Namibia model myself.

 

[flatwater bill]

Hank...............good points.........................wildlife has to have some value to those that live on the same land. More than that, however, is my belief that wildlife has an intrinsic value, an inherent right to live. And we as humans, and especially hunters, need to respect that right, and have a good reason to take it away. I realize many, perhaps most, don't share my view. I have not encountered any indigenous, in any country, that valued wildlife for anything but what the animal could do for THEM: meat, money, work.............direct value. With the Namibian model, at least it's a start. I don't envision locals waxing about the beauty of springbok herds athletic leaps, but maybe they will appreciate that hunters pay money to hunt them. It is a start. I believe that a small number of Kenyans are destroying their country's future, and I will never condone it simply because they are unable or unwilling to learn new ways. As to your question, "what would you do if..............." it presuposes that a dire situation exists.......and maybe it does.............but most reading this post have had to adapt, change, struggle, learn, even re-invent themselves to survive in the last 30 years of change. Find somebody in the American West that didn't have to learn several new skills to survive lately. Should Africa be exempt? Only if we Westerners keep saying, "they had to do it, because they don't know any other way...........it implies that they can never do better, and I think they can......" JMO. ...................FWB

 

[Hank2211]

Hank...............good points.........................wildlife has to have some value to those that live on the same land. More than that, however, is my belief that wildlife has an intrinsic value, an inherent right to live. And we as humans, and especially hunters, need to respect that right, and have a good reason to take it away. I realize many, perhaps most, don't share my view. I have not encountered any indigenous, in any country, that valued wildlife for anything but what the animal could do for THEM: meat, money, work.............direct value. With the Namibian model, at least it's a start. I don't envision locals waxing about the beauty of springbok herds athletic leaps, but maybe they will appreciate that hunters pay money to hunt them. It is a start. I believe that a small number of Kenyans are destroying their country's future, and I will never condone it simply because they are unable or unwilling to learn new ways. As to your question, "what would you do if..............." it presuposes that a dire situation exists.......and maybe it does.............but most reading this post have had to adapt, change, struggle, learn, even re-invent themselves to survive in the last 30 years of change. Find somebody in the American West that didn't have to learn several new skills to survive lately. Should Africa be exempt? Only if we Westerners keep saying, "they had to do it, because they don't know any other way...........it implies that they can never do better, and I think they can......" JMO. ...................FWB

Again, hard to disagree with much of what you say.

I'd be completely in agreement with your analogy to re-invention in the West . . . if Africans had the same opportunities and political systems that we do. While I don't generally have much time for governments, most - all? - of Africa has such bad government that I'd hesitate to compare the opportunities of North Americans to those of Africans. Personally, having seen the opportunities offered or available to pygmies in the forests of Cameroon, for example, I think it would be a real stretch to expect them to do as we do. And frankly, the only jobs available apart from hunting are cutting the forests down - which seems to benefit no one except some well connected people.

As an aside, most poaching in Africa wouldn't be so bad if the local people practised it the old way - without the benefit of western wire, guns and poison. But we've helpfully given them the tools to improve their efficiency!

But again, don't get me wrong. I'd like to see it end as well - have seen the decimation of animal populations caused by this. Just trying to be realistic as to what doable in the short term.

 

[gillettehunter]

I wonder if the Rangers used some of the cows for target practice....... Would they decide the price for grazing them there is just too high. Just a thought. Bruce

 

[flatwater bill]

Hank..............I respect your opinion and will rethink a few of my beliefs.........thanks..................FWB

 

[BWH]

They are feral..... In Texas, we'd be having filet tonight.... And a lot of t-bones, strips & ground meat for the off season.