Large caliber's on a standard length action

[boldo 42]

All things being std DWB , a std 98 and a magnum mauser should be the same strength , but once you have opened up the std action , i can only see a weakening of the lug locking area and making the feed ramp steeper , which should lead to feeding problems. Feel free to pull me up here if i have it wrong.

 

[IvW]

Quite a knowledgeable guy in the gun industry here once said to me:

Remember the Magum Mauser action is made of the exact same steel and exact same way as the other sporting actions. It is only longer! Not that much stronger!

It also does not have any steel removed to make it work! It was designed for Magnum cartridges which is what a 416 Rigby is and needs.

It does not mean that making things work by modifying them that that is the best way to do it. That would be the same as saying a Fiat can do what a Land Cruiser can cause it has the same steel in the body.

A custom Mauser rifle can bring great pride of ownership.

What is the intention with the rifle? Build a working man's rifle?
In that case I would buy a good second hand one such as a Brno ZKK 602 and spend a fraction on it at a reputable gunsmith just to smooth it out if you like or buy a new CZ 550 and do the same. You will then have a working mans rifle you can rely on.

If you want to have a Mauser action rifle I would rather buy a Mauser action 404 Jeff original one even though it may cost you.

As for the standard size M98 I would build a rifle on that that would not require machining away steel from the action. There are many that will fit.

416 Rigby is not one I would build on it.

Modifying a Military M98 to a hunting rifle especially a Magnum will cost you a lot and is not a simple straight forward thing.

An original Mauser action is going to cost you, they are collectable.

You have to make sure what you have or intend buying. Is it a small ring or a large ring action?
Who originally made it? Turkish Mauser actions need to not be considered.
You will need a large ring 98 to build a magnum.
You have to open the bolt face(7mm and 8mm M98 cannot fit magnum case head sizes)
Extractor needs to be trimmed to slide the case under it.
Feed rails in the receiver need to be altered to accommodate the magnum case.
Magazine follower needs to be replaced.
Magazine will require some extensive work done to it.
After all this you may need to get the whole thing heat treated as you do not know how many rounds have been through such a old action.

After all this buy the right action length to start with.

That's what I would do anyway.

 

[IvW]

All things being std DWB , a std 98 and a magnum mauser should be the same strength , but once you have opened up the std action , i can only see a weakening of the lug locking area and making the feed ramp steeper , which should lead to feeding problems. Feel free to pull me up here if i have it wrong.

Agreed.

 

[boldo 42]

It also does not have any steel removed to make it work! It was designed for Magnum cartridges which is what a 416 Rigby is and needs.

It does not mean that making things work by modifying them that that is the best way to do it. That would be the same as saying a Fiat can do what a Land Cruiser can cause it has the same steel in the body.

A custom Mauser rifle can bring great pride of ownership.

What is the intention with the rifle? Build a working man's rifle?
In that case I would buy a good second hand one such as a Brno ZKK 602 and spend a fraction on it at a reputable gunsmith just to smooth it out if you like or buy a new CZ 550 and do the same. You will then have a working mans rifle you can rely on.

If you want to have a Mauser action rifle I would rather buy a Mauser action 404 Jeff original one even though it may cost you.

As for the standard size M98 I would build a rifle on that that would not require machining away steel from the action. There are many that will fit.

416 Rigby is not one I would build on it.

Modifying a Military M98 to a hunting rifle especially a Magnum will cost you a lot and is not a simple straight forward thing.

An original Mauser action is going to cost you, they are collectable.

You have to make sure what you have or intend buying. Is it a small ring or a large ring action?
Who originally made it? Turkish Mauser actions need to not be considered.
You will need a large ring 98 to build a magnum.
You have to open the bolt face(7mm and 8mm M98 cannot fit magnum case head sizes)
Extractor needs to be trimmed to slide the case under it.
Feed rails in the receiver need to be altered to accommodate the magnum case.
Magazine follower needs to be replaced.
Magazine will require some extensive work done to it.
After all this you may need to get the whole thing heat treated as you do not know how many rounds have been through such a old action.

After all this buy the right action length to start with.

That's what I would do anyway.

Pretty much nailed it.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I use rifle in 404Jeffery on a standart length 98 Mauser action.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/dangerous-game-rifle-in-404-jeffery-10-75-x-73.18483/

 

[boldo 42]

I use rifle in 404Jeffery on a standart length 98 Mauser action.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/dangerous-game-rifle-in-404-jeffery-10-75-x-73.18483/

Nice looking rifle Witold.

 

[IvW]

I use rifle in 404Jeffery on a standart length 98 Mauser action.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/dangerous-game-rifle-in-404-jeffery-10-75-x-73.18483/

Beautiful rifle.

Looks like the gunsmith new what he was doing.
Agreed, one of a very few "best cartridges" for Africa.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I agree with you.
Witold

 

[DWB]

I never argued the facts, all else being equal means no extra steel removed.

It was just interesting to me that the Mauser Magnum was just longer (with obvious benefits) but not made of superior steel or can handle higher pressures etc (once again under the same conditions)

My 404 is built on an Oberndorf Mauser sporting action (ex 10.75x68) and with over 600 full powered rounds through it it is still going strong.

Choose a gunsmith that knows what he is doing and choose the best action for the job.

I have handled and shot more than one original Jeffery on Ex Mil actions and 2 Mauser Magnum Mauser 404s so I also did my homework before commencing the build.

More steel in all the right places will always be more beneficial!

 

[Shootist43]

Witold, your 404 is a beautiful rifle. What would something like that cost to have built today? While not a show-piece, it appears to be a good working rifle.

 

[DWB]

That being said.

I would never advise on building something like a 416 Rigby on a Standard length action even though it can be done.

If I was ever crazy enough to build another gun it would alse be a BRNO/CZ Magnum action in a calibre suited to the action length.

Having a too short round in a too long action also requires additional work like mag spacers etc.

In SA it is hard enough to find a proper big bore smith willing to help you that you don't want to be doing anything on trial and error.

Just so by the way IvW, who do you use for your builds? (404)

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Witold, your 404 is a beautiful rifle. What would something like that cost to have built today? While not a show-piece, it appears to be a good working rifle.

The cost of making my Mauser - Jeffery is $ 4000.
Witold

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Witold, beautiful rifle, and then it is a 404 Jeffery that makes it a perfect rifle. I have opened up Obendorf M98 actions, since I do not have a Mauser Magnum or a Montana Magnum action or a CZ action or ZZK 602 action..that is the only reason...I had to work what is and was available to me , there was no other choice , the same choice I had to make when I did not get hold of 404 Jeffery brass..I fire-formed .375 H&H Magnum brass to fit in my 404 Jeffery..that was five years ago..I still shoot these brass today without any head separations, ...if I had another choice I shall not do it...yes, and through this process , you need to remove metal..and yes it weakens the action...this is my opinion entirely ......I myself have a 404 Jeffery on a Obendorf military action M98.. if it was build on a Magnum action I really would have like it so much more.......

 

[Wheels]

Found this, it may explain why many were made on standard length 98 actions.

Prior to 1912, W.J. Jeffery built .404 Rimless Nitro Express rifles on ex-military, standard length, 98 Mauser actions that had the action and magazine box modified to fit. This was the result of John Rigby & Co. having the exclusive distributorship from 1898 to 1912 for the U.K. market of Mauser rifles and components that were manufactured by the Mauser firm. Once Rigby’s exclusive distributorship ended, Jeffery began using 98 Magnum Mauser actions to produce .404 Rimless NE rifles.

I think you found your answer with this post.

I have a 404 on a M98 military action. It was made by Jeffery in 1907. Rigby would not sell to them. Metal has been removed from the action and the magazine has been opened up. A steel plate was built into the stock to serve as the front of the magazine.

I am not a tall guy. A standard action fits me better than a magnum action.

 

[IvW]

That being said.



Just so by the way IvW, who do you use for your builds? (404)

Ginger van Zyl

 

[DWB]

Best of the best!

 

[ZG47]

I use rifle in 404Jeffery on a standart length 98 Mauser action.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/dangerous-game-rifle-in-404-jeffery-10-75-x-73.18483/

Yes, Witold, a beautiful rifle. Liked it the first time I looked at that thread

 

[ChrisG]

A 404 is easy to fit into an m98 and will feed very reliably. You can lengthen the mag box by cutting off the front wall an you'll still have 3 down one in the chamber by half loading the first one. Magnum actions can be had cheaper these days, yes, but who on earth would want a push feed dg rifle, no thanks. Cz as the other option, OK, but will never be half the m98.

You mean how CZ's are made with modern steels that have higher tensile strength, are more durable and take a finish more evenly that the old M98 without being so hard you can't drill and tap them, or perhaps you were talking about how modern production methods typically produce much better tolerancing that is true to design and precision better than having some guy in a machine shop in 1935 "eyeballing" it? Yeah, M98s are way better than anything modern. Modern made lemons are the result of lax quality control not cheap manufacturing techniques. It's not that Mauser didn't make lemons, the germans just made sure they either never left the factory, or they have been discarded on some shell cratered field in western Russia. I would wager that a investment CAST Ruger M77 reciever is stronger than a forged and machined M98 reciever. If I were building a rifle from scratch, I would have to say that Granite Mountain makes a great magnum mauser action. But why spend $3,000 on just the reciever when a CZ or a Winchester is between $1,200 to $1,500 and it is a whole rifle. CZ sells just the receivers through Brownells too!

 

[brettp]

The .416 Ruger is a truly standard (30-06) length round that packs a wallop. I've killed several buffalo and a brown bear with it and be VERY happy with it's performance.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

The .416 Ruger is a truly standard (30-06) length round that packs a wallop. I've killed several buffalo and a brown bear with it and be VERY happy with it's performance.

But classics is M98 on a standard length action.
Witold